Subject: Re: GEOPHONES From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 11:31:17 -0700 Geospace has changed their legal name and some idiot changed the web site to http://www.geospacelp.com/ The proper approach would have been to maintain the old site with a referral to the new address for perhaps a year or at least until the search engines picked up the new URL. Doug ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > > Hi there, > > My site reference for Geospace Geophones > http://www.geospacecorp.com/ > does not seem to work any longer. Can anyone give me a reference for > these > geophones please? > > Chris Chapman -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Testing geophones From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:30:53 EDT I came across the following reference to testing the damping of geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it? http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and only then lengthen the period? There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and a range of other info. Regards, Chris Chapman      I came across the following reference to testing the damping of
geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it?
      http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm
      I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of
seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and
only then lengthen the period?

      There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml
and a range of other info.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:01:16 -0700 Hi Larry -- I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay no matter what I enter in the "length" field. Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default value. Wierd! I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that Friday off. Karl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 02:38:51 -0700 Hi Karl, Attached is a new winqk32.exe that should fix the replay bug. I discovered it myself a few days ago. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Cunningham" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting > Hi Larry -- > > I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the > replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change > the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. > > For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the > default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I > wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and > got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, > changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 > minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay > no matter what I enter in the "length" field. > > Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" > field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even > if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default > value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default > value. Wierd! > > > I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would > really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that > Friday off. > > Karl > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Acouple linear diamagnetic designs for potential tiltmeter/seismometer From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:49:01 -0800 Hi all, Now have another web page on diamagnetic levitation for those interested in the tiltmeter/seismometer aspect of using such. The page only shows the basic rod levitation and there is only one picture related to eddy current damping. Its anticipated that with the addition of a aluminum foil "flag" atop the rod and in the middle, that combined with a source of light, the motion can be sensed and recorded. Here the graphite is "common" high grade 1/8" diameter spectrographic rods that are diamagnetic and utilized with various magnets. For prior web site readers, the Martin Simon levitation stand graphite is not used. http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page017.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple more geomagnetic solar flare graphs From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 17:08:04 -0800 Hi all, Also put up additions to the prior March 31st solar flare and/or interplanetary shock wave as it hit earth and affected my diamagnetic instrument. I show April 4th and April 7th additions on the same web page. Neither of these are as dramatic as the March 31st result. See: http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page061.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Changes to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:02:21 -0700 Hi all, Last night I accidentally sent out an attachment to the list. Sorry if you received it. After I discovered what I done I removed the file so most of you didn't get it. Today I make some changes to the list server to prevent this from happening again. First I make a changed that will reject any messages, with or without an attachment, that is larger then 50,000 bytes. Next I wrote a program that tests message sent to this list for any attachments. If there is one, the message is rejected. If your message is rejected you should get an error message back. Please let me know if this filtering causes any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: GEOPHONES/BURROWING ANIMALS From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:19:55 EDT From: "Clive A Marks" > I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the > behaviour of large burrowing mammals. Is it worth investigating the > ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement > within burrows if they are placed in close proximity? Any advice would > be appreciated! Dear Clive Marks, Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now at http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter / detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals, some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals. Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really competent in electronics. You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size. You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals (other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe. I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a brief EMail in reply, please. Regards, Chris Chapman From: "Clive A Marks"
> I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the
> behaviour of large burrowing mammals.  Is it worth investigating the
> ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement
> within burrows if they are placed in close proximity?  Any advice would
> be appreciated!

Dear Clive Marks,

     Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal
species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really
too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather
quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up
ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual
burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair
for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend
to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see
www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an
amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now
at  http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at
http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html

      Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter /
detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro
reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be
archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder
beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range
will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals,
some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals.
Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or
to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are
available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may
penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very
expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really
competent in electronics.

      You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red
illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably
priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a
lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video
recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have
used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size.

     You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want
from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals
(other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the
environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe.

     I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a
brief EMail in reply, please.

     Regards,

     Chris Chapman Subject: FW: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:28:33 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cochrane [mailto:cochrane@............... Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:45 PM To: Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo Subject: Re: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" Hi Kareem, I see that your message to the PSN-L list was rejected. If you didn't attach anything try again so I can see what's going on. I just made a change to the attachment blocker code so I can debug the problem. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" > There was an error processing a message to the PSN-L list. > Error Type: No attachments allowed in email messages to PSN-L. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:37:06 -0700 Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:24:38 -0700 Greetings, I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or doesn't work with your board. The new release can be downloaded here: http://www.seismicnet.com/sdrdocs/sdr.htm. I have also update the documentation (the part I hate the most!) reflecting the new changes to the program. Since I have made some changes to SDR, mostly on how it handles the interrupt from the A/D card and memory management, I'm calling this version 4.0b. The changes I made allow SDR to record up to 8 channels at 100 samples per second (or less) or up to 4 channels at 200 SPS. Before SDR would only use up to 6 of the 8 channels on the A/D card and it didn't have the 200 SPS mode. Also new with this release are two new menu items controlling the new STA/LTA triggering. I added a LTA Minimum field that controls how low the LTA (Long Term Average) number can go. This controls the overall trigger sensitivity for the channel. The larger the number the larger the event (or noise) will have to be to trigger the channel. I also added a field that controls how long the channel stays in the pre-trigger condition. The default is 10 seconds. Before upgrading, replay and extract any event files. The new version can not use the old daily record files. New ones will be created when you run the new SDR release. As always let me know if you run into any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: winquake expiration From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 21:24:59 -0700 Don, My beta releases have timeouts in them. You will need to upgrade to the next beta release of WinQuake. I will be releasing it later tonight or tomorrow. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Wheeler" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: winquake > Larry, > > Have been using the upgraded version of Winquake and am now getting an > expiration message in XX days. I checked the registration and it tells > me it is registered. > > Is this normal or do I need to purchase the upgrade? > > Thanks, > > Don Wheeler > Carroll High School > Monroe, Louisiana > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:59:49

Larry

I can't seem to get the DOS mode (ctrl-D) to work on the new SDR.

Wayne



 

>Greetings,
>
>I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D
>card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user
>using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or
>doesn't work with your board.
>
Larry
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www .hotmail.com.

Subject: RE: PSN Meeting - cancel?--What about May 12th? From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:43:12 -0700 I agree Larry and Dick we need a daytime Saturday date and time. Why don't we set a data in May and see how many people will attend. I'll offer my home in Aptos for the meeting. Saturday May 12th at 10:30AM. For reference, it takes 1:30 min to travel to Aptos from downtown San Francisco. I live five minutes from the beach, which some might find convenient, or for the brave-hearted, some might want to hike/bike up to the Loma Prieta Epicenter site in the Forest of Niseme Marks State Park. The trail head is down the street from my house in the Village. Take a look at http://www.aptoschamber.com/tourism/map.html to get a better idea about the area. I'll even offer BBQ burgers and soda on the sundeck following the meeting. Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 4:37 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:24:38 -0700 Kareem and PSN'ers, Your message contains an attachment called winmail.dat. You need to disable this "option" in your email program. If you are using one of Microsoft's mailers please read this web page: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q138/0/53.asp -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:47 AM > Larry, > > It doesn't seem to work; I can't post to the PSN. > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:45:12 -0700 test (pl text) Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: anyone? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:00:44 -0700 Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:23:17 -0700 I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June 16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, however, alternative suggestions are welcome. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: is anyone there? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:58:50 -0700 Hi Larry, Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently and so I'm a little concerned that I'm missing messages. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: is anyone there? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:08:41 EDT In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes: > Hi Larry, > Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails > Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes:

Hi Lar ry,
Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails
a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier


      Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone!
      Regards, Chris Chapman Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:09 -0700 Hi Steve -- I would like to attend, and June 16 sounds fine. Any Saturday is fine with me, and much better than a weekday. I appreciate your generous offer to host the meeting at your house. Karl At 05:23 PM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the >latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June >16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new >date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, >however, alternative suggestions are welcome. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Email failed From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:00:22 -0700 Nick and PSN'ers, I saw in my mail server's log file that some email messages from you were rejected. I use several real-time spam blocking services to block spam from getting to any account on my server. It appears that the server you used is on the blocking list. Here's the log info: ---- SMTPRA log entry made at 04/11/2001 08:37:34 SMTP command failed when talking to 207.69.200.148: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=598 <<< 550 5.7.1 This system is configured to reject mail from 207.69.200.148 (Host blacklisted - see http://maps.vix.com/rbl/) The ip address above comes back to blount.mail.mindspring.net. I believe Mindspring bought out Netcom. Since you have an account on Yahoo you will need to use it to send messages to me and the list until they are removed from the blocking list. I would complain to your ISP about it since more and more servers are using the blocking services. Lately mindspring.net has been a large source of spam so I'm glad they were placed on the blocking list. I need to use the blocking lists because without them I get over 20 spam emails each day. I still get 5 to 6 each day since spammers keep using new systems that aren't on the blocking list. I must be on every spammers mailing list. This happened because I posted a few messages to newsgroups with my correct email address when I first got on the Internet. My only other option is to change my email address. For more information about spam blocking see www.orbs.org and http://maps.vix.com/rbl/. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas A Caporossi" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Email failed > Hi Larry: > Your Email ID: Cochrane@.............. is not working > for me. I send a > couple of messages to you and they got bounced back. > Is the problem at my end? > They DID NOT have an attachment to them. They were > quiet small about 2k. > > Nick > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: anyone? PS1 PS2 From: Arie Verveer ajbv@............ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:22:20 +0800 Hi Kareem, A friend of mine has the PS1 and PS2 model's, and both of these devices work well. The only short coming, is they rely on your PC or notebook to keep time, and as we all know that will require some external programs. The other point, and I'm not sure on this, is the their is no conversion program from the PSx output to a compatible "winquake" format. If the format is known it would be possible to write a conversion program. Other than those to point the units work well for local quakes. I believe one unit is equipped with a (X,Y,Z) 4.5 Hz geophone. This makes the device useful for local quake detection. But remember local ground noise can be a problem. Cheers Arie > > Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New WinQuake Release From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:16:05 -0700 Greetings, I released a new version of WinQuake today. You can down load the beta release here: http://www.seismicnet.com/software.html Here's what's new in this release: I fixed a bug in how WQ saves data in the new PSN format. The spec says to save two CRC (a way of checking the validity of data) bytes at the end of the file even if the CRC is not calculated. SDR, while not calculating the CRC, did save the two bytes at the end of the file and set the NO_CRC flag in the header section. When WQ updated the file, it would set the CRC flag but not write out the two bytes at the end of the file. Since older beta release did use the CRC bytes it wasn't a problem. This release calculates and saves the CRC bytes when saving the event file and if the NO_CRC flag is clear, it will test the CRC when reading in an event file. If the calculated CRC does not match the CRC bytes in the file you will get an error message. Since people are sending in event files in the new format I created a simple program to check all of the event files on my system to see if they are two bytes short. If an event file was short the program would append two bytes to the end of the file. If you are sending in event files in the new format please upgrade to this release before sending anymore in. This release has a new dialog box that displays the RMS (Root Means Square), minimum, maximum and mean of the viewed data. This dialog box can be opened by using the Calculate and RMS / Max / Min menu items. Thanks it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: help ? From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:35:55 -0400 An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6=20 And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
An  amateur question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or lower = better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Re: help ? From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:50:18 -0500 Hello JORD, I presently run my X at 25 and the Y depends on the channel. I have run the X at various different setting. It's only what you like that matters. Friday, April 13, 2001, 3:35:55 PM, you wrote: J> An amateur question J> Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 J> And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 J> Thank You J> Randy.........Toronto... -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: John Lahr's diamagnetic levitated graphite video From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:15:44 -0700 Hi all, On John Lahr's web site is acouple pictures of his spectroscopic graphite rod levitating over a unique magnet setup. Especially good is a video of the graphite rod freely oscillating back and forth over the magnets and within its channel. Its a 1.2mb MPEG download, which will play on the Microsoft Windows Media Player, and with that programs controls, it can be replayed of course. Its unknown whether it will play the video with other browsers? See: http://lahr.org/john-jan/physics/maglev/glev/ This particular basic type layout was found by David Lamb around January 2001; and it seems to have a real good potential for use as a tiltmeter/seismometer with development of a light sensor circuit, and the application of a aluminum damping medium with a "flag" to discern motion. Currently the magnets are not available per Forcefield, but its hoped that a quanity become available ~ June/July 2001. The spectroscopic rods used are likely old stock (circa 1960's-1970's), but its highly likely that there are sources of similar diamagnetic (or better or worse) 1/8" spectroscopic rods available. One real advantage with this graphite is that its cost is greatly lower than with some other special graphite used in levitation. There are plus's and minus's possible with this type of layout. Probably most evident is that the levitation assembly is itself most of the usual "boom, mast, mass and etc", involved in construction. When leveled and the rod length adjusted, its possible to get periods of from ~ 1 sec up to ~ 4 seconds. One negative is that with the "mass" being lightweight, it will very likely have a unknown amount of Brownian noise associated with it. Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help ? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:12 -0700 Randy, The X and Y scales are only for the display. They do not effect the data = saved to disk or event files produced when you replay the data or when = SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would have an X scale = value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a few hours worth of = time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the number of lines = per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale number = will have to be so the lines don't overlap. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JORD=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: help ? An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 = And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
Randy,
 
The X and Y scales are only for the = display. They=20 do not effect the data saved to disk or event files produced when you = replay the=20 data or when SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would = have=20 an X scale value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a = few=20 hours worth of time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the = number of=20 lines per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale = number will=20 have to be so the lines don't overlap.
 
-Larry Cochrane
Redwood City, PSN 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JORD
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 = 1:35=20 PM
Subject: help ?

An  amateur = question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or = lower=20 better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Testing of Geophones From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:56:52

Hello all

Is there any way of checking the operating specifications of a geophone? I own a Mar k Products geophone with no specs and would like to check it to know its voltage output.

Thanks,
Wayne


Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at htt p://www.hotmail.com.

Subject: test From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:57:18 -0700 test Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: CRC-16 Algorithm From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 10:52:46 -0700 Michael, I updated the STALTA.ZIP file with the source code I use to generate the CRC16. You can download it here ftp://www.seismicnet.com/software/stalta.zip. -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Roseberry" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: CRC-16 Algorithm > Larry: > > Seems I remember that there are a handfull of different algorithms used > for caculating a 16-bit CRC value. The basic theme is the same -- a > feedback shift register done in software -- but the bit locations that > are fedback (cycled) differ from one algorithm to another (in fact, I > remember the names of the different CRC-16 algorithms took their names > from the list of bit locations used for feedback). > > I was wondering if you have published the details (such as which bits > are feedback from the 16-bit word) of the CRC-16 algorithm you chose to > incorporate in your software? If so, where can I learn of it. > > Thank you, > Michael J. Roseberry > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometers for sale From: "Scott Sona Snibbe" scott@.......... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:00:23 -0700 Hi folks, I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale, which I thought your community = might like to know about. I listed them on ebay in the hopes of getting = these sensors to someone who can really use them: Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230529926 Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230531902 =20 Best Wishes, scott
Hi folks,
 
I have 2 seismometer/geophones for = sale, which I=20 thought your community might like to know about. I listed them on ebay = in the=20 hopes of getting these sensors to someone who can really use = them:
 
Mark Products Seismometer Seismic = Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 531902

 
Best=20 Wishes,
scott
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: seismometers for sale From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:13:24 EDT In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes: > I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes > of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them: > > Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230529926 > > Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230531902 Dear Scott, Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes:

I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes
of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them:

Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230531902


Dear Scott,

      Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which
model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: seismic coda From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:11:06 -0400 --From Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447 For minutes after the violent shaking of an earthquake, the ground continues to rock imperceptibly. Seismologists are unclear about the cause of this so-called seismic coda, but the 9 April PRL presents new evidence that may resolve the question. While some seismologists assume that the coda comes from waves that scatter only once before reaching the surface, the authors found evidence that the vibrations reflect many times within the Earth before being detected. They used an array of seismometers that could distinguish several types of shaking and showed that energy is divided equally among them, as theory predicts for multiply scattered waves. (R. Hennino et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447. Link to the paper: http://publish.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v86/p3447/ COMPLETE Focus story at http://focus.aps.org/v7/st17.html) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometer for kids? From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:54:04 -0400 Perhaps someone on this list can help this desperate mom. I do not have any expertise in this area. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: A child's quick and easy to build seismometer request > Good Morning, > > I am the Mother of a ten year old boy who was building a seismometer for > a science fair project. > > We are not getting the results we expected. > > We are going out of town and have only two days to finish. Do you have > any suggestions for an easy and quick to build seismometer with materials > from the local hardware store? > > I deeply appreciate your assistance. > > Thanks, Desperate Mom > Ciao, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:30 -0700 Dear Desperate Mom, Before giving advice, one needs to know some details. In your post to David Saum, which was forwarded to the PSN list, You said; "we are not getting the results we expected" As an intelligent and by nature, helpful person (but we don't suffer fools easily), we would like to know: (1) What did you expect going into the project? Please be specific. (2) What results are you getting? (3) What would you like to change? (4) Is it possible you did not allow enough time to achieve acceptable results? Sometimes these things take weeks. This is not an appliance you turn on and it gives you a number. This is a serious albeit amateur endeavor which needs tender loving care plus a feel for what works and what's crap. If it was a professional project it'd cost 10 to 100 grand in real money. When it's a serious amateur project, you pay for results in time and effort rather than cold cash. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: science fair seis From: sean@........... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:36:00 -0500 (CDT) Hi seismometer Mom, I agree with Erich's comments. I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars (a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get "results". My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the "how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in copying is evident). So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including wave propagation and quake location without having to build a seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student (parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student (parent), which often blindly copy some article. I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make adjustments or add something that does make it work). The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. A good high school project will take about a year, with the last half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly large earthquake to record on it. But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. Regards, Sean-Thomas Morrissey St. Louis University. PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:04:13 -0700 This was EXCELLENT. Thank you very much for this insight into what a science fair judge is looking for. Although my children are already grown, I will give this to the parents of my 7-year-old grandson, so that it can be used as a guide! Once again, thank you, "JD" Cooley At 03:36 PM 4/17/01 , Sean-Thomas Morrissey wrote: >Hi seismometer Mom, > >I agree with Erich's comments. > >I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen >many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" >providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars >(a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers >crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get >"results". > >My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit >statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the >"how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can >be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an >electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be >no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, >no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question >is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". > >Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually >the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is >demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, >in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the >logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have >that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in >copying is evident). > >So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the >core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of >the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative >motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground >is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) >from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background >poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a >poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including >wave propagation and quake location without having to build a >seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the >epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by >using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. > >A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built >that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the >practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and >then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then >becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student >(parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the >display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student >(parent), which often blindly copy some article. > >I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with >brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached >that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student >got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet >out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass >was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with >time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking >was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. > >However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are >faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging >on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting >on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a >nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an >attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the >data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display >that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make >adjustments or add something that does make it work). > >The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. >A good high school project will take about a year, with the last >half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. >Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of >at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly >large earthquake to record on it. > >But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary >electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the >midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a >high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. > >And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. > >Regards, >Sean-Thomas Morrissey >St. Louis University. > >PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern >electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) >nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: > >http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html > >stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report >stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings >stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: No Expertise?? From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:52:24 -0700 David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: School Seismograph Project From: Jim ODonnell jimo17@........ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:16:14 -0700 To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & other PSN Members: Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my Alma Mater) at- http://www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ on home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph FAQ Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a seismometer in the classroom. Here is a sampling MichSeis Princeton Earth Physics Project and Larry Braile of Purdue has written several lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom Handheld Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim) Educational Seismograph AS-1 Seismograph Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the principles of seismometer operation. The Seismometer Demo Applet Good luck! Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I and others are Beta testing. The geophone system sells for ~$125 and I have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's. You can see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for a school project yet!!!!!.....Jim Jim O'Donnell Registered Geologist in California , 1970 Registered Geophysicist in California , 1974 UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member Geosciences Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety Council
To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & = other=20 PSN Members:
 
Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my= Alma=20 Mater) at-
http://= www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html
and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ = on=20 home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph = FAQ=20

Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a = seismometer=20 in the classroom. Here is a sampling=20

         MichSeis=20

and Larry Braile of Purdue has written = several=20 lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom
  • = Handheld=20 Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim)
  • = Educational=20 Seismograph=20
  • AS-1=20 Seismograph

Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the = principles=20 of seismometer operation.=20

Good luck!

Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I= and=20 others are Beta testing.  The geophone system sells for ~$125 and= I=20 have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's.  You = can=20 see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ =20 This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for= a=20 school project yet!!!!!.....Jim

<= /A>Jim=20 O'Donnell
Registered Geologist in California , 1970
Registered=20 Geophysicist in California , 1974
UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member = Geosciences=20 Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety=20 Council

 

 

Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:49:19 EDT Sean-Thomas, Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer saying "thanks, but no thanks". Like you, I am a judge at the science fairs and my experience confirms that what you have said pretty much sums up what is true of the rest of the science fairs. I recently spent two hours judging nine projects entered by high school students here in Orlando, FL. where we had over 300 entries and more than 100 judges. I find help and support from teachers and parents plays a large part in how much interest the student takes in making a project that amounts to their learning something about doing science. Parents are the most important. If they have no interest in science their kids are not going to be interested. They see it as a homework assignment that should require a few days at most and be over with. Despite the disasters we see I find it very rewarding to be a judge at the fair each year. A question I always ask is whether they are thinking of pursuing a career in science or engineering. This year only one answered yes. She was an Asian girl and her project was well done and I'm sure she spent months preparing it for the fair because it was the best of the nine I judged. Just one is enough to keep me judging the fairs. I hope some of the rest of you PSN seismo builders will consider volunteering to be science fair judges. It's a very rewarding experience and something we can do to help society produce the scientists and engineers our country will need in the future. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:50:51 -0700 That is too bad....She might have taken your advice and gone on to better things next year. I also wrote her privately suggesting to her that asking for advice on the project 2 days away and then adding a trip was planned also, made it almost impossible to do anything for this year and to take the lumps... I have 7 kids....All that have completed high school did a science fair project. I still have two at home and this year I am going to have them work together on the site that Jim ODonnell suggested! What a wonderful URL! Thanks Jim. Out of 7 kids I have a BS RN who is working on her NP MS and a Physical Therapist son who is working on a PhD. Both of these kids did science fairs not so long ago (*at least it seems that way to an aging parent). One did a demonstration of liquifaction and won the fair top prize. It always makes a dad proud when something I had been doing seems to have rubbed off....Again thanks Jim! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Re: science fair seis > Sean-Thomas, > > Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish > her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I > could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try > again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer > saying "thanks, but no thanksmore information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:18:22 EDT It would be most helpful when forwarding requests for help, advice, etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help, but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to 'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong deity could loose you friends and still not influence people! Regards, Chris Chapman      It would be most helpful when forwarding request s for help, advice,
etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the
situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help,
but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to
'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer
for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong
deity could loose you friends and still not influence people!

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:05:35 -0700 This is a test of Larry's anti-spam software, which has been rejecting my e-mail for about a week. My ISP is a major vendor in Silicon Valley and one of the alegedly reputable ones, but seems to be in the data base of abusers in Larry's software. As instructed in the "bounce-back" message, I forwarded the information to my ISP. If you are reading this, they may have managed to get their name off the "bad-ISP" list. Spam is a serious problem, I get about 50/day by virtue of running a home business with a web site. It's an inconvenience at home and a real burden on the road using a hotel dial-up connection. The spammers have software that mines web sites for e-mail addresses and compiles lists. You can buy a CD ROM with several million addresses for about $30, and since e-mail is free, send out millions of junk for free. I'm ready for that tax on e-mail just to eliminate this. To be consistent with this thread, here is a copy of my response sent by regular e-mail to the mom with the science fair problem. While all the comments were valid and helpful, this was my approach to creating a display in two days for a 10-year old. Admittedly, we're not talking great science here, and certainly not a winning entry, but probably some good parent-child quality time. > Desperate Mom > Construct a simple seismograph from hardware store materials? > One method is to use a plumb bob, available from your local hardware > store. Construct a pendulum with the plumb bob. Make the string long > enough so that the period is about one second. Construct an aparatus to > hold the string to make it portable. > After you establish the period, put a tray at the bottom and fill it > with fine sand (level). The sand will provide damping for the pendulum > and record the vibrations when your earthquake comes. > You can see a photo of a similar device at > http://www.earthquakerose.com/ along with a recording from the recent > Seattle earthquake. A downloaded copy of that photo would make a nice > addition to the display at the science fair. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:11:51 -1000 I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:58:37 -0700 At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Mike Price mprice@........ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:10 -0700 Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Victor.Taylor@......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:14:33 -0400 Ask FEMA how and where they compiled their data for these astounding news releases. -----Original Message----- From: mprice@........ [SMTP:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:50 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA Report URL From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:19:07 -0700 Hi If you are interested, the FEMA report can be accessed at: http://www.fema.gov/library/fema354.htm Ron __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismograph From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:34 -0700 Paul, Sorry, I can't help you. I'm CC'ing the Public Seismic Mailing list. Maybe someone on the list can help you. PSN'ers please send email directly to Paul Hudak. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hudak" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Seismograph > Dear Mr. Cochrane: > > I saw your web page on seismographs. I'm with > the Department of Geography at the University of > North Texas. We are located in the Environmental > Science Building, one of the most visible buildings > on campus. About 20,000 school children come > through the building each year to learn about > geology and the environment. We have various > exhibits and activities for them. Now for the > reason I'm writing ... > > I was wondering if you might be willing to donate > a used seismograph that we could set up > as an exhibit in the building. It wouldn't > have to be too complex. Just something > schoolkids could look at and see how > it works. We are not for profit, > so you could take a tax write off. We would also > acknowledge your contribution by putting your name > right on the exhibit. > > If you are unable to donate something, perhaps you > could direct me to some possible donators. I really > appreciate your time in reading this letter and > considering this request. > > Paul Hudak > Associate Professor > Geography, UNT > hudak@....... > 972 874-0741 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: John Hernlund hernlund@............ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:25:50 -0700 LA Times had an article about this a few days back. Apparently building experts in LA are sitting the fence on the issue, since they weren't sure that enough testing had been done on the proposed new joints. As for me, the building I live in survived violent shaking in Santa Monica during Northridge, and afterward was reinforced to be even better than before 1994...that seems like a good criteria to go by. Mike Price wrote: > Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, > especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design > flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between > beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves > for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was > observed in Kobe. > > Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? > If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news > now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame > buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are > more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? > What design changes were introduced? > > Thanks, > Mike Price > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: barry lotz gbl@....... Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:40:19 -0700 Mike Along the same design principal as was mentioned by John. Much research has also been done in the past (I worked on several projects at UC Berkeley in the early 70's) to put "plastic hinges"(really ductile- not plastic as in the material) in reinforced concrete beams a distance away from concrete columns. This provides energy absorption,ductility and protects the load carrying capacity of the columns. Regards Barry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:19:24 -1000 Either location is feasable for me, Down town being a little easier. My only difficulty is that I need to book my flights in the next week or so. Is the meeting likely to be confirmed soon? Thanks Steve Hammond wrote: > At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to > hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. > Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th > > I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity > to > attend. Is this meeting still likely? > > Thanks > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:23:23 +1000 At 17:55 20/04/01 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay >people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural >engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. yes i also heard abt this within 12 months of the Northridge earthquake in an article on that quake in the National Geographic magazine it showed pic or 2 of weld failures and comments on how many LA hi-rises were constructed this way Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:24:01 EDT Hi, I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container. Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions. Thanks Ian UK Extinction is the last step! Hi,

I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical
drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container.
Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions.

Thanks
Ian
UK

Extinction is the last step! Subject: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:33:31 EDT Are there any PSN members living in the UK. I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. Almost completed an AS2 build. Ian Extinction is the last step! Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: lehman damping From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:11:19 -0500 (CDT) Ian, Why don't you use electromagnetic damping of the moving coil? Fluid damping of seismometers went away in the 30's. It is mostly guesswork, position dependent, messy, and it is very difficult to make an oil/vane dashpot that critically damps a large mass because of the close clearances needed vs the imprecise movement of the large boom. And just before THE great quake, a beetle will drown itself in the oil. I have described electromagnetic damping previously; it simply involves shunting the main coil with an appropriate resistor. Modern amplifiers have no problem making up for the resulting signal loss. If you know (or can determine) a number of parameters of your coil/magnet, the damping can be exactly calculated. Once installed, you can forget about it, whereas the oil dashpot is a constant p.i.a. You should find it in the PSN archives. If not, I will repeat it. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: lehman damping From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:44:27 EDT Sean-Thomas Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html I'll read up on it. I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated. Ian Extinction is the last step! Sean-Thomas

Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html
I'll read up on it.  I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it
has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: 2001 SSA Meeting in San Francisco From: Dick Webb dwebb2@.............. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:40:06 -0400 Hi, I just wanted to rub it in a little by mentioning how great the meeting was last week in San Francisco. Not only were the presentations very interesting and educational, but the field trip to the faults east of the bay were great. And, I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Lehman and spending some time with him. You missed a great meeting! Jim took some pictures and said he would send me copies that I can scan. I will send them to the PSN and rub it in some more that you should have come. Perhaps next year at Victoria, BC or the year after in Puerto Rico we can motivate you to attend and even have a PSN meeting for the country and world. Dick __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:47:46 -0500 Hi Everyone, I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. They look like huge beast!! > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older KS36000 >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, but many >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is willing to make >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First come, first >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > >For more information, contact: > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > Best regards, Angel mailto: angel@............ www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: UK From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:47:07 -1000 Looks like the answer may be no! I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire. When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman. Cheers Ian Smith http://www.iasmith.com KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote: > Are there any PSN members living in the UK. > I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. > Almost completed an AS2 build. > > Ian > > Extinction is the last step! Looks like the answer may be no!  I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire.

When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman.

Cheers

Ian Smith
http://www.iasmith.com
 

KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote:

Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step!

Subject: Re: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:26:31 EDT Ian, The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found another three through that contact. That makes at least five of us here in England. Ian Extinction is the last step! Ian,

The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found
another three through that contact.  That makes at least five of us here in
England.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Re: Free KS36000 seismometers From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:21:26 -0600 Hello Angel and others interested in these seismometers. Bob Hutt has asked me to relay a message to the group regarding these seismometers. He is preparing a corrected text regarding the type of instrument this is and what is required to operate them. AS soon as I get a copy I will post to the group. Briefly, these units are about 5-6 feet long and 8-9 inches in diameter and weigh about 150 pounds. THey require a test box to set them up. In addition, they must be installed in a borehole to operate correctly. They are available for PICK UP only and none can be packed or shipped. Raul Alvarez La Estrellita Observatory Bellvue, CO Angel Rodriguez wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in > Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does > if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. > They look like huge beast!! > > > > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > > > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older > KS36000 > >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, > but many > >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is > willing to make > >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First > come, first > >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > > > >For more information, contact: > > > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt > >Scientist-in-Charge > >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY > >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 > >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > > > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) > >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) > >FAX: (505)-462-3299 > >Email: hutt@............... > >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > > > > > > Best regards, > Angel > > mailto: angel@............ > > www.volcanbaru.com > > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:10:10 -0600 Hi All, OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. Attachment follows: Raul, Here is the amended message on the free seismometers. Regards, Bob Hutt >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:08:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: Bulkmail System >Subject: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers >To: undisclosed-recipients:; > >Subject: More on "Free" Seismometers > >Due to the large number of inquiries regarding the "free" KS36000 borehole >seismometers, >more explanation is necessary: > >NOTE THAT THESE SEISMOMETERS ARE VERY DEFINITELY NOT SUITABLE FOR THE AMATEUR >SEISMOLOGIST OR HIGH SCHOOL. THEY ARE EXPENSIVE TO DEPLOY AND OPERATE, >AND REQUIRE >SPECIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT. THEY ARE THEREFORE NOT QUITE "FREE." > >1. USGS/ASL is not in a position to "pack up and ship" any of these units >to anyone. >You must come pick them up yourself. There are no shipping containers >available. They >may be transported (very carefully) in the back of a van or a truck. Each >unit weighs >about 150 lbs and is 5.5 inches in diameter and 6 feet >long. Accelerations greater than >about 2G may destroy them. > >2. Special handling equipment is required: Test Set/Controller for >installation (we >only have 6); winch and mast assembly (we have none); a special >(expensive) cable made >both for lifting and signal hookup (we have none); and a borehole to put >them in. All >the special equipment would have to be purchased from Geotech Instruments >LLC: > Phone: 214-221-0000. > >3. These seismometers do not come with any recording equipment of any >kind. They are >only the transducer that converts ground motion into electrical signals. > >4. We will not be ready for anyone to pick up any seismometers this >week. They are >currently on Kirtland AFB and are inaccessible to the public. We will >make them publicly >accessible for pickup by May 7, 2001, at our warehouse near the airport in >Albuquerque. >Do not plan on picking any up before that date. > >5. Limited list of Specifications: May be installed at up to 1,000 feet >depth, with >proper cable and connector. Power: 22-28 VDC, approx. 5 >watts. Three-axis (vertical >and two orthogonal horizontals). Amplitude response from each >axis: 5,600 v/m/s/s from >4.2 Hz to 3 sec period, then increasing (6 db/oct) to peak of 126,000 >v/m/s/s at 80 sec >period, then decreasing at 6 db/oct at longer periods. Falls of at 12 >db/oct at >frequencies higher than 4.2 Hz. Suitable for teleseismic work. More >specifications may >be obtained from Geotech Instruments. > >6. Only about 4 of the ~40 seismometers have been tested and found to be >partially >operational (some channels very noisy or not working, other channels >fairly good). The >condition of the other 36 instruments is unknown, although they were >supposedly working >when un-installed 2-3 years ago from foreign locations. > >For those of you who have contacted USGS/ASL so far, please make contact >again and let us >know if you are still interested. > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:02:53 EDT In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Hi Raul, A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent separately by UPS. Best Regards, Cap Casper Hossfield 935 Warwick Turnpike Hewitt, NJ 07421 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:23:16 -0500 Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards ángel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __________________________________________________________ Cac> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Cac> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with Cac> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe Cac> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Gravitometer plans? From: Mark Andrews mja6042@............. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:31:18 -0500 Hello All, Would anyone be able to point me to some plans/diagrams on the internet for building a gravitometer? Thanks for the help, Mark PS: I am now successfully running my first home built SG sensor. "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." --Groucho Marx __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:43:02 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............... writes: << Hello Cap, =20 I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. >> Hi Angel That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt.= =20 As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be=20 willing to pass it around to others.=20 The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement=20 that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them=20 out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame t= o=20 let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of=20 dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a= =20 fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be= =20 saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship= =20 them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer.= =20 Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to=20 help save them from certain destruction? A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any=20 other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage=20 floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a=20 hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a=20 "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort=20 of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the=20 vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a=20 long-period horizontal Lehman. I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and=20 the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a cop= y=20 of Angel's complete message Best regards and thanks, Cap =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the=20 expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards =E1ngel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, =20 Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it.= =20 And=20 Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck=20 somewhere=20 Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these=20 fine=20 Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing=20 company=20 Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us= =20 who=20 Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the=20 first to=20 Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to=20 cover=20 Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first=20 offer I'd=20 Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for=20 Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent=20 Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:05:24 -0600 Hi Cap, No promises, but I am working on a solution. I am in Colorado and am thinking of some way to solve this dilemma. Your suggestions welcomed. I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory CapAAVSO@....... wrote: > In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ > writes: > > << Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. >> > > Hi Angel > > That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt. > As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be > willing to pass it around to others. > > The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement > that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them > out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame to > let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of > dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a > fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be > saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship > them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer. > Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to > help save them from certain destruction? > > A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any > other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage > floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a > hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a > "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort > of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the > vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a > long-period horizontal Lehman. > > I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and > the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a copy > of Angel's complete message > > Best regards and thanks, > Cap > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. > > "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively > very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of > the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 > please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur > community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the > test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the > expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. > > regards > > ángel > > Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: > > Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: > > Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please > Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> > > Cac> Hi Raul, > > Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. > And > Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck > somewhere > Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these > fine > Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing > company > Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us > who > Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the > first to > Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to > cover > Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first > offer I'd > Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for > Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent > Cac> separately by UPS. > > Cac> Best Regards, > Cac> Cap > > Cac> Casper Hossfield > Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike > Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 > Cac> __ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory >> Hi Raul, Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably too big and heavy by the time you pack and crate them to go by UPS. The trucking company should be able to tell you how to arrange to have the Seismometer picked up and strapped onto a skid for shipping. My experience with transporting heavy stuff like this is that it is less apt to suffer damage from rough handling on a skid where a lift truck operator loads and unloads it at the trucking terminal than if it is packed in a box or crate for UPS shipping. Thanks for your help. Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:28:53 -0700 Hi all, Robert my brother Bob thinks the units are of the analog output and LVDT type sensing. The tester seems to read resistance and capacitance which seems to be a "clue" tip off for this type of sensing. I'am not into much electronics but I've seen a generally simple circuit that may have possiblities in this regard. Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:33:18 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 9:35:54 PM GMT Daylight Time, mlamb1@.......... writes: << Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb >> Hi Meredith, I would definitely want to homebrew whatever I would connect to the free KS36000 I hope to get, to make it into a usable seismograph. From what Dr. Hutt has said about them it is reasonable to guess they were used to monitor underground nuclear tests and so your guess that they are 20-30 years old is probably correct. Undoubtedly Geotech made a rugged but yet accurate instrument so it could be shipped around the world and installed in deep bore holes in far away places to perform for many years without maintenance. They should make a very good seismo for anyone willing and able to homebrew the same stuff they would have to homebrew to go with a Lehman they might build. Thanks, Meredith, for your helpful advice. I hope others will add further advice and comments too. Thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:40:22 EDT Hi there, It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a technical handbook somewhere? Regards, Chris Chapman Hi there,

      It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also
market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us
what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a
technical handbook somewhere?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:53:07 -0700 Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them might be a viable option. At worst it might involve hack-sawing a mounting frame apart (I'd personally use a angle grinder if it came to that.) Once they're apart the seismo masses could be blocked for shipment thereby protecting them. And once they're in that size unit, they could be shipped UPS, cheaply and quickly. The electronics inside may have gotten moist or wet, that would account for the "noisy" performance. One calibration/control box unit is essential to back engineering the required voltages and expected levels to make homebrew electronics. In particular I expect that it had remote control leveling motors to set it up once it was in the borehole. If Raul can do an initial look-see, maybe take some photos to discuss possible separation methods, I'd be willing to fly down and help cart them to a storage locker and take them apart with the aforementioned process. (Raul, if you schedule it later in the week, maybe I can fly down for the look-see also.) I can bring the angle grinder! Two people, a rental truck and a cherry picker/engine lift could handle the instruments. 3 or more could probably just pick them up by hand. I'd estimate a day to move them and maybe 3 days work to break down 40 instruments. After that shipping would be extra. A small storage locker would be about $50 for a month but probably wouldn't allow working on them there. A better option would be to find an aviation homebuilder at a local airport who would let us use some space for a couple of days. If you think this makes sense, I might be able to pursue that option. Anyway, that might keep the shipping and overhead costs low. What do you think? Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:06:43 -0400 I would like very much to be able to get one of the seismometers. I unfortunatly have no way to pick them up. if one or two could be trucked up my way it would be great. as long as i can afford the shipping. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT > >In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >ralvarez@........ writes: > ><< I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make >it >easier > to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as >they are > heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need >exceptional >packing > to survive - read "crating". >Raul Alvarez >LaEstrellita Observatory >> > >Hi Raul, > >Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation >over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking >company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a >seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are >interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably >too big and heavy by the time you pack and crate them to go by UPS. The >trucking company should be able to tell you how to arrange to have the >Seismometer picked up and strapped onto a skid for shipping. My experience >with transporting heavy stuff like this is that it is less apt to suffer >damage from rough handling on a skid where a lift truck operator loads and >unloads it at the trucking terminal than if it is packed in a box or crate >for UPS shipping. > >Thanks for your help. >Cap >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The KS36000 sensor specifics with other details. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:12:50 -0700 >> Hi all, >> >> Dennis recla wrote me this email on the ks36000, he used to >> work on them years ago. Basically it uses capacitive sensor/s >> and NOT the LVDT type as I mentioned earlier today as a >> (false) assumption/guess. Their is plus's and negatives. > Here is his forwarded email...and, thanks Dennis for the email and excellent description! >> >> >> >> Dennis Recla wrote: >> >> > Hi MeredithSince I can't leave e-mail on PSN, I'll send this one to >> > you.The KS-36000 (KS for Kirkpatrick / Starkey the engineers that >> > designed it) seismometer, consists of 3 malt/shake can sized >> > sensors that hang one above the other and make use of a capacitive >> > type sensor to monitor 120 degrees of orientation. I don't recall >> > if the unit itself provides NS EW & V or if it gives just the >> > output from each canister and the user has to convert them to the >> > correct directions. The test box provides the necessary voltages >> > and controls to level the canisters, they use a blast of air from a >> > small cylinder inside the case, to float the canister to level each >> > unit. They are suspended on a ball support thingee, the air >> > provides a bearing and it levels and when the air is removed it is >> > level. The test box lets you know if each canister is level, and >> > if you need to run the motor / air cylinder again to level >> > them. Each unit has a hole lock, and an orientation base, that gets >> > locked into the borehole. The test box is also used to control the >> > hole lock. Seems like it was a 6 inch diameter borehole, but >> > perhaps 8 inch. (Sorry it's been years since I worked with one of >> > them). It's a pain to get them open, since it was designed for a >> > deep hole, and they are well sealed. Each canister is in a vacuum >> > that is then back filled with helium (I think that's what was >> > used). The fill gas had to be a small molecule since the air >> > molecules hitting the mass would cause noise in the sensor. It >> > provides LP and SP outputs from the sensor. Generally if they get >> > noisey, the seal has been lost from the canister. At the factory, >> > each canister was put in a temperature chamber, heated, and >> > evacuated using a multi-stage vacuum system then backfilled.There >> > isn't an coil and magnet assemblies in the seismometer, it's a >> > capacitive array, a little like the tuning capacitor of an old >> > radio set. Each sealed canister detects 120 degrees of direction, >> > and when combined provide a 360 degree output. If you can't use >> > them as they are, there isn't much in the way of parts to build >> > another seismometer from. That's about all I can contribute on >> > these units right now, there are still several stations running >> > these units, but it's been replaced by the KS-54000 >> > seismometer.Dennis >>
Hi all,

Dennis recla wrote me this email on the ks36000, he used to
work on them years ago.  Basically it uses capacitive sensor/s
and NOT the LVDT type as I mentioned earlier today as a
(false) assumption/guess.  Their is plus's and negatives.

      Here is his forwarded email...and, thanks Dennis for the email and excellent
description!
 
 

Dennis Recla wrote:

Hi MeredithSince I can't leave e-mail on PSN, I'll send this one to you.The KS-36000 (KS for Kirkpatrick / Starkey the engineers that designed it) seismometer, consists of 3 malt/shake can sized sensors that hang one above the other and make use of a capacitive type sensor to monitor 120 degrees of orientation.  I don't recall if the unit itself provides NS EW & V or if it gives just the output from each canister and the user has to convert them to the correct directions.  The test box provides the necessary voltages and controls to level the canisters, they use a blast of air from a small cylinder inside the case, to float the canister to level each unit.  They are suspended on a ball support thingee, the air provides a bearing and it levels and when the air is removed it is level.  The test box lets you know if each canister is level, and if you need to run the motor / air cylinder again to level them. Each unit has a hole lock, and an orientation base, that gets locked into the borehole.  The test box is also used to control the hole lock.  Seems like it was a 6 inch diameter borehole, but perhaps 8 inch.  (Sorry it's been years since I worked with one of them).  It's a pain to get them open, since it was designed for a deep hole, and they are well sealed. Each canister is in a vacuum that is then back filled with helium (I think that's what was used).  The fill gas had to be a small molecule since the air molecules hitting the mass would cause noise in the sensor.  It provides LP and SP outputs from the sensor.  Generally if they get noisey, the seal has been lost from the canister.  At the factory, each canister was put in a temperature chamber, heated, and evacuated using a multi-stage vacuum system then backfilled.There isn't an coil and magnet assemblies in the seismometer, it's a capacitive array, a little like the tuning capacitor of an old radio set.  Each sealed canister detects 120 degrees of direction, and when combined provide a 360 degree output.  If you can't use them as they are, there isn't much in the way of parts to build another seismometer from. That's about all I can contribute on these units right now, there are still several stations running these units, but it's been replaced by the KS-54000 seismometer.Dennis
Subject: Re[2]: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:26:16 -0500 Hello Charles, Some nice pictures of these KS36000 brutes: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Why use your PC... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:01:37 -0700 What are the benefits of integrating a seismograph recording system with one's PC? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Why use your PC... From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:17:02 -0700 Hi Kareem -- Here are some advantages of using a PC: There are LOTS of PCs around and older ones can be had for very little money. Data ends up on the hard disk of the PC where it can be easily shared with others. Archival data can be written to CDROM for storage. No ink to mess with. No recording paper to buy. The paper or ink never runs out just before a big event occurs. Replacement parts for a PC are easily obtained should it fail. The PC can be located near the seismometer and connected via network to other PCs for data analysis. This can reduce noise pickup. There are really great programs available to do the data recording. Disadvantages: For public display, the output may not be as impressive as a drum recorder. Knowledge of computer hardware and software is required to set it up. You need to add an A/D converter board in the PC to capture the signals, and they tend to be somewhat expensive. You can't as easily look at a whole day's record on one page, as with a drum recorder. Fans need occasional cleaning. Power consumption is higher. PCs create electronic noise that can interfere with the sensitive electronics in seismometers. -- Karl At 07:01 AM 4/27/2001 -0700, you wrote: >What are the benefits of integrating a seismograph recording system with >one's PC? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: looking for a really cheap ADC card. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:48:16 -0400 can be new or used, doesn't matter so long as it works. just need something compatible with SDR with 1 or more channels. Just something to start out with. by really cheap I mean $20 or less (about all my current budget can handle). I tried building one but was unsuccessful (never seemed to work at all). -Travis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Danie Overbeek" danieo@............ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:07:09 +0000 Hi Cap I hope you get the free seismometer. It sounds like a good deal to me. Cheers Danie. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:55 EDT In a message dated 4/27/01 1:07:18 AM GMT Daylight Time, charles.r.patton@........ writes: << Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them might be a viable option. >> Hi Charles, I like the idea of loading the KC36000 seismos on a truck and taking them to storage shed to take them apart. It solves Dr. Hutt's problem which is that he has to clear all of them out of his warehouse and we are saving all forty of these high quality instruments. I would like to fly down and help you and Raul too but I live too far away. Instead I will help you by putting a check in the mail for $100 to help pay for trucking and a storage shed. One of the things I believe we should consider is, is it a good idea to just hack them all to pieces? Being in a hurry we might do something we later wish we hadn't done. I believe it would be better to Test them first to pick out the good ones. Dr. Hutt says he checked 6 of them that are in good condition. Some of us might like to have the whole three instruments in the case so we can set them in the ground like you see done in the web site Angel gave us: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html I believe they would do quite well in a shallow hole you could dig with a post hole digger of the type used to plant fence posts. Just level them up, pack some sand around them and build some homebrew electronics and you have a seismometer as good as any the Geological survey uses. What do you think of this idea: Suppose instead of taking couple of days taking them all apart in Albuquerque, you drive the truck all the way home to California where you live. Then put them in a storage shed near home and you can take them apart a few at a time on weekends without rushing. That way you could UPS a few individual units to interested people who could try them out and let the rest of the PSN people know how they work. Maybe some others could help out by sending a few bucks too, to get this project on the way?? I hope others will also post some ideas on how we can go about all this. Best regards, Casper Hossfield __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:43:20 -0400 I can't remember who exactly siad it but someone siad (in this mailing list) that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise (probely the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:55 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB4B3BC005040043148D864E082092B0; Sat Apr 28 18:05:05 2001 >Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.165]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 28 Apr >2001 17:54:02 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.70.a1ccd0b (3930) for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:56 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat Apr 28 18:06:32 2001 >Message-ID: <70.a1ccd0b.281cbfab@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 4/27/01 1:07:18 AM GMT Daylight Time, >charles.r.patton@........ writes: > ><< Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the > following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost > certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, > mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them > and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of > temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them > might be a viable option. >> > >Hi Charles, > >I like the idea of loading the KC36000 seismos on a truck and taking them >to >storage shed to take them apart. It solves Dr. Hutt's problem which is >that >he has to clear all of them out of his warehouse and we are saving all >forty >of these high quality instruments. I would like to fly down and help you >and >Raul too but I live too far away. Instead I will help you by putting a >check >in the mail for $100 to help pay for trucking and a storage shed. > >One of the things I believe we should consider is, is it a good idea to >just >hack them all to pieces? Being in a hurry we might do something we later >wish >we hadn't done. I believe it would be better to Test them first to pick out >the good ones. Dr. Hutt says he checked 6 of them that are in good >condition. >Some of us might like to have the whole three instruments in the case so we >can set them in the ground like you see done in the web site Angel gave us: >http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html I believe they would do >quite well in a shallow hole you could dig with a post hole digger of the >type used to plant fence posts. Just level them up, pack some sand around >them and build some homebrew electronics and you have a seismometer as good >as any the Geological survey uses. > >What do you think of this idea: Suppose instead of taking couple of days >taking them all apart in Albuquerque, you drive the truck all the way home >to >California where you live. Then put them in a storage shed near home and >you >can take them apart a few at a time on weekends without rushing. That way >you >could UPS a few individual units to interested people who could try them >out >and let the rest of the PSN people know how they work. > >Maybe some others could help out by sending a few bucks too, to get this >project on the way?? I hope others will also post some ideas on how we can >go about all this. > >Best regards, >Casper Hossfield >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:19:37 EDT In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes: > I can't remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing list) > that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am > assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise > (probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). If you go the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be provided with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS MANUAL" printed on the cover! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes:

I can' t remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing list)
that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am
assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise
(probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place).


       If you g o the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a
look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo.
There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which
are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low
pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will
probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would
suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty
units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off -
there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have
the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC.
      If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be provided
with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The
manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS
MANUAL" printed on the cover!
      Regards,

      Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:44:38 -0400 ahhh, I see now. as for how to take them apart, if you look very carefully at the picture of the KS-54000 (I assume they are similar in construction), at the base there appears to be threads. from this I would think the outer casing simply screwed off. just a note, if they have been in the ground all this time I would guess any threads would probably be corroded. I agree that they should be tested and one of the noisy ones should be disassembled first to see exactly what the deal is. -Travis >From: ChrisAtUpw@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:19:37 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB4D5DE00A64004318FD864E0820D910; Sat Apr 28 20:30:46 2001 >Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.4]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 28 Apr >2001 20:21:46 -0700 >Received: from ChrisAtUpw@......... imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) >id x.cd.5d6619a (4002) for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 >23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat Apr 28 20:31:21 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 58 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes: > > > I can't remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing >list) > > that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I >am > > assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause >noise > > (probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). > > If you go the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a >look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. >There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section >which >are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low >pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There >will >probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would >suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with >faulty >units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - >there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have >the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. > If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be >provided >with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The >manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS >MANUAL" printed on the cover! > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: ADXL202 From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:38:50 -0700 Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:36:57 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 4:25:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << If you go the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. >> Regards, Chris Chapman >> Hi Chris, I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/D converters stacked in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm) diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a small lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers. A similar electronics package may be inside the free KS36000 borehole seismometers. A better picture of a KS36000 is at http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html This is bigger and heavier and obviously is the whole unit that we are offered free for the taking. The outside container for this precision Geotech instrument is undoubtedly stainless steel so there will be no rust problem to prevent opening it and taking it apart. If Raul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be found in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in the "Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years ago. We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them are noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and air has leaked in to make them noisy. I believe I could refill the noisy sealed units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment. I would pump them down with a regular mechanical vacuum pump and refill them with pure Helium. Then I would pump the refilled Helium out and refill again with pure Helium. This process could be repeated several times and should end up with pure enough Helium inside so the unit would be as noise free as when Geotech first made it. The important thing right now is to help Raul and Charles get these KS36000s into a storage shed where they can take some of them apart. Once we see what's inside we can plan what to do next. PSN members can help by sending a small $$ donation to Raul and Charles. They are willing to do the work so the rest of us should be willing to finance the project. Even a small contribution will help. Our reward will be enough free precision Geotech seismometers for everyone Best regards, Casper Hossfield __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:38:05 EDT In a message dated 29/04/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes: > I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/D converters stacked > in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm) > diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a > small > lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers. Hi there Cap, I was actually looking at the KS54000 @.................................... They give the dimensions as 98" long by 5.38" dia. I believe that this is the replacement for the KS36000. > A better picture of a KS36000 is at > http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html If you go to this address and click the back button, there are photos of other installations. > If Raul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans > to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very > high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of > course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the > KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be > found > in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in > the > "Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years > ago. There should be a circuit diagram in the Seis manual. I would expect the oscillator/demodulator units to be inside the main casing. A setup similar to that on Seans site should be OK, or even a modification of the S-G capacity sensor. We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them are > noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units > filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium > atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the > capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and > air > has leaked in to make them noisy. It could be gas convection after an air leak in, or electronic circuit noise. I would expect the units to have been evacuated using a diffusion pump and a cold trap and baked to ~150 C to remove all water vapour. They would then be filled to a fraction of a mm Hg pressure with either hydrogen or helium. This allows internal heat conduction, but the low pressure prevents convection and this is essential. I believe I could refill the noisy sealed > units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like > to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my > Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment. They could be glass seals, but it is more common to use copper pipe seals. The Cu pipe may be tinned with soft solder on the inside. After pumping, the pipe is W crimped, heated to melt the solder and cut off. With suitable crimp tools, clean copper pipe may be crimped and cut in the same operation. The outside of the cut may then be tinned with solder or coated with epoxy. I used to work with vacuum systems in a university research lab. Hope that this helps. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 29/04/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes:

I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/ D converters stacked
in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm)
diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a
small
lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers.


Hi there Cap,

      I was actually looking at the KS54000
@....................................
They give the dimensions as 98" long by 5.38" dia. I believe that this is the
replacement for the KS36000.

A better picture of a KS36000 is at   
http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html   


       If you g o to this address and click the back button, there are photos
of other installations.

If Ra ul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans
to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very
high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of
course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the
KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be
found
in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in
the
"Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years
ago.


       There sh ould be a circuit diagram in the Seis manual. I would expect
the oscillator/demodulator units to be inside the main casing. A setup
similar to that on Seans site should be OK, or even a modification of the S-G
capacity sensor.

We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them
are
noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units
filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium
atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the
capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and
air
has leaked in to make them noisy.

      It could be gas convection after an air leak in, or electronic circuit
noise. I would expect the units to have been evacuated using a diffusion pump
and a cold trap and baked to ~150 C to remove all water vapour. They would
then be filled to a fraction of a mm Hg pressure with either hydrogen or
helium. This allows internal heat conduction, but the low pressure prevents
convection and this is essential.

 I believe I could refill the noisy sealed
units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like
to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my
Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment.


      They cou ld be glass seals, but it is more common to use copper pipe
seals. The Cu pipe may be tinned with soft solder on the inside. After
pumping, the pipe is W crimped, heated to melt the solder and cut off. With
suitable crimp tools, clean copper pipe may be crimped and cut in the same
operation. The outside of the cut may then be tinned with solder or coated
with epoxy.

      I used to work with vacuum systems in a university research lab.
      Hope that this helps.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:33:11 -0700 Several points: 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on this list that could tailgate the load? 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers and continue in a similar manner. 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to try and keep moisture from infiltrating. Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:53:26 -0400 an idea on shipping, what about a rental moving van/truck? there are some that should be large enough to handle the load. -Travis >From: "Charles R. Patton" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L Mailing List >Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:33:11 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB5ABDE008A400438D6D864E0820A820; Sun Apr 29 11:43:47 2001 >Received: from mail2.pe.net (unverified [64.38.64.10]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sun, 29 Apr >2001 11:34:06 -0700 >Received: from ieee.org (IP-87-175.tem.pe.net [64.38.87.175])by >mail2.pe.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f3TIW8Y16750for >; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sun Apr 29 11:44:39 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEC5E67.8BB94661@........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Several points: > >1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my >plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry >to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I >don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car >occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a >1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, >but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and >half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a >tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in >the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different >drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on >this list that could tailgate the load? > >2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have >enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray >foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and >the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers >and continue in a similar manner. > >2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise >is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a >stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a >storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to >take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units >proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment >vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure >with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to >try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > >Charles R. Patton >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "ed thelen" ethelen@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:27:46 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles R. Patton" To: "PSN-L Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. ... > It would take a > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > the crating and shipping business I beg to differ. U-Haul and others regularly rent trucks of that capacity to "the rest of us". I have gone on a few "raids" myself - (for old computer equipment, etc.). I just called U-Haul, and their price for one way Albuquerque to L.A., for a 24 ft. truck rated at 4 tons, is $390, (they allow 4 days). That is probably a typical price. No special license is required, and a 24 ft. truck is not scary to drive (a breeze). I'm retired, and could participate, probably wishing to put a couple of units in my sedan for a trip to the S.F. bay area - where others would likely enjoy the fun also. ("Big boys, big toys?") > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > enclosed sides. Packing for such a ride and handling is interesting. Be a shame to wreck such equipment with casual handling. A good thing to research well! - locking for shipment - vibration/acceleration sensitivity - attitude, etc. > 2) Re: testing for noisy units I would bet that NONE of the instruments are sufficently noisy for us to test. Our typical enviroments are so many db more noisy that of a reasonably quiet site. > > Charles R. Patton Cheers Ed Thelen __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: ian ian@........... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:27:36 -1000 being some 3000+ miles from the action, my contemplating one of these is probably impractical :-( However, I'm wondering if some of these units can be broken up into 3 independant seismometers which can then be shipped by more conventional means (once they have reached the hanger). Sorry if this is a dumb question, despite looking at the http://www.geoinstr.com/ks54000i.htm web page, I still don't know what type of basic seismometer these are or what support electronics are required. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:38:41 -0500 Hello Ian, I too am 1000's of miles away and found the though of getting a 6 ft 150 lb cylinder in my suitcase a bit hard. If these units can be separated, I certainly would like to help out in any way I can and lay "dibs" on a set. Angel Sunday, April 29, 2001, 2:27:36 PM, you wrote: i> being some 3000+ miles from the action, my contemplating one of these is i> probably impractical :-( i> However, I'm wondering if some of these units can be broken up into 3 i> independant seismometers which can then be shipped by more conventional means i> (once they have reached the hanger). i> Sorry if this is a dumb question, despite looking at the i> http://www.geoinstr.com/ks54000i.htm web page, I still don't know what type of i> basic seismometer these are or what support electronics are required. i> Ian Smith i> __________________________________________________________ i> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) i> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with i> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe i> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:49:55 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 7:38:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, charles.r.patton@........ writes: << Several points: << 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and half range. That is still shy of the requirement. >> Hi Charles, I just checked with U-Haul truck rental service and you can rent a medium size do-it-yourself furniture moving truck that requires only an ordinary drivers license and it will do the job. The medium size truck is 17 feet long and can carry up to 11,000 lbs, almost twice as much as we need. The distance from Albuquerque, NM to Chino, CA is 933 miles and well within the free miles range that go with the truck rental. The rental cost will be $350 plus an $80 deposit which is refundable when you turn the truck in. So it is doable,-- if,-- we can get together $350. I have already sent Charles $100 so if the rest of you guys can provide the additional $250 we've got it made. There will then be a lifetime supply of fine Geotech seismometers for the PSN network and various schools we might want to help bring hands-on seismology to the classrooms. I hope to hear soon that there is enough PSN interest in these free Geotech instruments to raise the additional $250 needed. We are very lucky that Charles owns an airplane and has a hanger where he can store the seismos and take a couple apart to tell us what's inside. Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:01:45 -0500 Hello Cap, Where can I send $50 for this project? How about Paypal? Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:33:56 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 9:14:03 PM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ writes: << Hello Cap, Where can I send $50 for this project? How about Paypal? Angel >> Hi Angel, Thanks for being the first to make such a generous offer to help the project financially. You can send your contribution to Charles Patton at this address: 21490 Camino Arriba, Murrieta, CA 92562 but you should check with him first if you wish to use Paypal. Email him at: charles.r.patton@........ (Charles R. Patton) Many thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: Brett Nordgren bnordgren@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:56:12 -0400 I am wondering if anyone has access to an operating manual, or even better a service manual for the KS3600's, or for their calibration equipment. If we could dig one up somewhere, it would seem that it ought to be able to answer a lot of questions. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "ed thelen" ethelen@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:04:24 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. Well, the pot seems boiling :-) Plan A) ( doable in mid May) (assuming we figure how to not damage the units in transit!) - I fly San Jose, CA to Albuquerque, New Mexico ( $137 on South West) - pick up truck - Albuquerque to Chino, one-way, U-Haul or what ever - estimated cost $400 - pack California units in manner to be determined (some one in area pre-pack??) cost ??? time??? - place California units onto truck (I even have a NASA fork-lift license ;-) - drive to Phoenix, AR, stay with friends, maybe stay 2 nights gas 50 gal? cost ?$100. - drive to L.A. (Chino) - deliver Southern California units to Chino gas 40 gal? cost ?$80. - load units for Northern California into cousin's husband's car - drive up L.A. to San Jose with my cousin's husband in his car for pickup by participating S.F. area folks (complicated, but he does this trip every few weeks.) gas 15 gal? cost ?$30 Estimated out of pocket for me $750, not including packing I contribute my time. --------------- Plan B) your turn :-)) Cheers Ed Thelen . __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 seismos From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bryan@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:57:47 -0500 I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one = and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay = shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks = Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms Big Quake just came through on my seismo=20
I would like to have = or buy one of=20 the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt
with the USGS he said I was = number 26=20 and I may not be able to get one and
that he had request for more = than one=20 from some people. I would pay shipping
or whatever If someone on the = list is=20 able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan S.
Goss............ Corinth=20 Ms


Big Quake just came through on = my seismo=20
Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:38:00 EDT Hi there all, Here are two additional sets of info which may be of help:- Chris, To add to your comments, I get the PSN e-mails but not a member and able to leave messages directly. You might pass along any of those that you think will help. Yes, each of the metal cups that hold the sensor package are sealed with a copper evacuation tube, and a glass sealed connection. Inside the stainless steel tube are 3 of the canisters, and each canister is about the size of a malted milk cup, like they used at the drug stores. Each hangs from the leveling fixture, that is basically a ball in a containter that can be filled with air to let the ball float and seek level. You still have to level the entire instrument, since the range of this auto leveling device is only about at best 5 or 10 degrees. (Sorry it's been years). Yes, a multistage vacuum pump was used, and the canister was heated, to help evacuate the air, and then filled back to slightly above atmospheric pressure. Remember each canister when leveled is not sensitive to north or south or up and down, it is a tri-axial package and each sensor covers part of the total 360 degrees of detection. To get a up/down output requires the combining of all three instruments to provide a usable signal. They work together to provide EW or NS and V outputs. What I don't recal is if the output was derrived inside the electronics of the downhole package or external to it. There are a set of electronic cards stacked on edge and vertical at the top of the internal frame that holds everything. By removing the bottom plug or maybe it was the top, the case slides off to reveil the framework that holds all the electronics and the three sensors. Inside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier electronics that connects via the downlhole cable. The canisters can be opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate, all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long. Deep hole versions had an alignment ring that was locked into the downhole pipe to provide alignment, later versions used in shallow holes had a North mark on the top. I remember one early version having a hole lock pin that came out the side of the top of the casing, to lock it from moving in deep holes. It was a motorized and geared pin that came out of the side at the top of the case. I did some of the original testing on the sensors when I worked at Teledyne Geotech, but was not involved in the manufacture of them, or any of the field installs. Other than seeing them being built and going through tests in the area next to my environmental testing lab. I operated the environmental test facility there during my 25 years at TG. We had seismic level shake tables, a pressure test well to check downhole instruments for leaks, and temperature chambers, and vibration test equipment. If anyone needs information on older TG/Geotechnical equipment, I still have alot of equipment information that I had on my bookshelf. When Teledyne started cutting back 9 years ago, I was working on a product for undergound leak detection, that I had a patent on, but the market wasn't ready for yet. Works great, just Expensive... I switched over to the meteorological product line (I did their systems engineering for them) which was also being sold off and ended up going to work for the competitor up here in Oregon. He bought the product line and two people who were supporting it. Me and a tech who remains in a office we set up in Dallas, doing field service work. If you have any questions, let me know, I'll try to answer them as best I can recall. Dennis Recla (541) 955-1704 recla@.......... Hi Meredith Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch showing what they look like inside. The one things that I think is important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V outputs. It requires all three sensors to get these outputs. In this way all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the total output. So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister. If a canister is bad, it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with working units. Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output. Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab. But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters. They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument. Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling around. If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly probable, use them. It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it. They usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever necessary. Dennis I seem to remember that I can't add attachments to PSN mail. I have downloaded and viewed this image and can send it on as neccessary. There is a cable head, a motorised pump for levelling, cable termination and electronics boards, three identical suspended seis sensors and the base plug. Regards, Chris Chapman Hi there all,

      Here are two additional sets of info which may be of help:-

Chris,
      To add to your comments, I get the PSN e-mails but not a member and
able to leave messages directly.  You might pass along any of those that you
think will help.
      Yes, eac h of the metal cups that hold the sensor package are sealed
with a copper evacuation tube, and a glass sealed connection.  Inside the
stainless steel tube are 3 of the canisters, and each canister is about the
size of a malted milk cup, like they used at the drug stores.  Each hangs
from the leveling fixture, that is basically a ball in a containter that can
be filled with air to let the ball float and seek level. You still have to
level the entire instrument, since the range of this auto leveling device is
only about at best 5 or 10 degrees.  (Sorry it's been years).  
      Yes, a m ultistage vacuum pump was used, and the canister was heated,
to help evacuate the air, and then filled back to slightly above atmospheric
pressure.  Remember each canister when leveled is not sensitive to north or
south or up and down, it is a tri-axial package and each sensor covers part
of the total 360 degrees of detection.  To get a up/down output requires the
combining of all three instruments to provide a usable signal.  They work
together to provide EW or NS and V outputs.  What I don't recal is if the
output was derrived inside the electronics of the downhole package or
external to it.  There are a set of electronic cards stacked on edge and
vertical at the top of the internal frame that holds everything.  By removing
the bottom plug or maybe it was the top, the case slides off to reveil the
framework that holds all the electronics and the three sensors.  
      Inside e ach sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and
electronics to provide an output which connects to the other internal
amplifier electronics that connects via the downlhole cable.   The canisters
can be opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top
plate, all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered
cup to top plate.  Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch
long.  
      Deep hol e versions had an alignment ring that was locked into the
downhole pipe to provide alignment, later versions used in shallow holes had
a North mark on the top.  I remember one early version having a hole lock pin
that came out the side of the top of the casing, to lock it from moving in
deep holes.  It was a motorized and geared pin that came out of the side at
the top of the case.
      I did so me of the original testing on the sensors when I worked at
Teledyne Geotech, but was not involved in the manufacture of them, or any of
the field installs.  Other than seeing them being built and going through
tests in the area next to my environmental testing lab.  I operated the
environmental test facility there during my 25 years at TG.  We had seismic
level shake tables, a pressure test well to check downhole instruments for
leaks,  and temperature chambers, and vibration test equipment.  
      If anyon e needs information on older TG/Geotechnical equipment, I
still have alot of equipment information that I had on my bookshelf.  When
Teledyne started cutting back 9 years ago, I was working on a product for
undergound leak detection, that I had a patent on, but the market wasn't
ready for yet.  Works great, just Expensive...  I switched over to the
meteorological product line (I did their systems engineering for them) which
was also being sold off and ended up going to work for the competitor up here
in Oregon.  He bought the product line and two people who were supporting it.
 Me and a tech who remains in a office we set up in Dallas, doing field
service work.
      If you h ave any questions, let me know, I'll try to answer them as
best I can recall.  

Dennis Recla (54 1) 955-1704 recla@..........

Hi Meredith
      Seeing l ots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch
showing what they look like inside.  The one things that I think is important
is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V
outputs.  It requires all three sensors to get these outputs.  In this way
all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation
at 120 degrees apart provides the total output.  So each canister is mounted
in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister.   If a canister is bad,
it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to
end up with working units.  Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem
doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output.
      Again, i t's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of
the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab.  But
saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater
chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters.
       Th ey should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument.  
Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling
around.  If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly
probable, use them.  It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6
ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it.  They
usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return
them for repairs if that was ever necessary.  

Dennis
      
      I seem t o remember that I can't add attachments to PSN mail. I have
downloaded and viewed this image and can send it on as neccessary. There is a
cable head, a motorised pump for levelling, cable termination and electronics
boards, three identical suspended seis sensors and the base plug.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman






Subject: Re: Sketch of insides of KS-36000 From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:17:18 -0700 Hi Dennis, Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions. That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects. It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing, of some sort. Thanks a bunch Dennis, Regards, Meredith Lamb ............ FOR PSN READERS: I can't or haven't yet figured out how to transfer the PDF image for viewing on a web site. The main points are somewhat repeated here: NOTE: THE THREE CANISTERS WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE OUTPUTS FOR VERTICAL, NORTH/SOUTH, AND EAST/WEST. THESE OUTPUTS ARE CALCULATED USING TRIG FUNCTIONS TO DERIVE THESE OUTPUTS. THERE IS NOT A VERTICAL SENSOR AND A EAST/WEST OR NORTH/SOUTH SENSOR. The PDF view seems to show a screw on "cable head" cap, or, rubber rings/screws on the cap/s themselves to keep out moisture ....then a main body, with the motorized air pump (to level canisters), then, underneath that, the electronics cards and cable interface. Underneath that are the 3 canisters one below the next. The "bottom plug" also seems to be a screw on cap, or rubber rings. The outer casing is stainless steel (undoubtedly the bulk of the weight). End of notes. ............................. Dennis Recla wrote: > Hi Meredith > Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch > showing what they look like inside. The one things that I think is > important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS > or EW or V outputs. It requires all three sensors to get these > outputs. In this way all the canisters could be identical in > construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the > total output. So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees > from the other canister. If a canister is bad, it could be replaced > from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with > working units. Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing > this, as I don't think each has an identical output. > Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of > the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test > lab. But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the > vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters. > They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument. > Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or > rolling around. If they still have the shipping containers for them, > which is highly probable, use them. It's a box about 1.5 ft square on > the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 > people to lift it. They usually would keep the shipping case around > since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever > necessary. > Dennis Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note
in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions.
That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual
sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects.
It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit
apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing,
of some sort.

Thanks a bunch Dennis,
Regards, Meredith Lamb
...........

FOR PSN READERS:
I can't or haven't yet figured out how to transfer the PDF image
for viewing on a web site.  The main points are somewhat
repeated here:

NOTE:  THE THREE CANISTERS WORK TOGETHER TO
PROVIDE OUTPUTS FOR VERTICAL, NORTH/SOUTH,
AND EAST/WEST.  THESE OUTPUTS ARE CALCULATED
USING TRIG FUNCTIONS TO DERIVE THESE OUTPUTS.

THERE IS NOT A VERTICAL SENSOR AND A EAST/WEST
OR NORTH/SOUTH SENSOR.

The PDF view seems to show a screw on "cable head" cap, or,
rubber rings/screws on the cap/s themselves to keep out moisture
...then a main body, with the motorized air pump (to level canisters),
then, underneath that, the electronics cards and cable interface.
Underneath that are the 3 canisters one below the next.  The
"bottom plug" also seems to be a screw on cap, or rubber rings.
The outer casing is stainless steel (undoubtedly the bulk of the weight).

End of notes.
............................

Dennis Recla wrote:

Hi Meredith
Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch showing what they look like inside.  The one things that I think is important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V outputs.  It requires all three sensors to get these outputs.  In this way all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the total output.  So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister.   If a canister is bad, it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with working units.  Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output.
Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab.  But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters.
They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument.  Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling around.  If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly probable, use them.  It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it.  They usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever necessary.
Dennis
Subject: Re[2]: Sketch of insides of KS-36000 From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:15:11 -0500 Hello Meredith, I think that the Streckeisen STS-2 work the same way. The identical sensors 120 degrees apart. I do wonder what each sensor is capable of? angel Sunday, April 29, 2001, 6:17:18 PM, you wrote: ml> Hi Dennis, ml> Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note ml> in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions. ml> That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual ml> sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects. ml> It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit ml> apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing, ml> of some sort. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:35:50 -0600 Hi All, When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. Thanks, Raul "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a > 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, > but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and > half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different > drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on > this list that could tailgate the load? > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray > foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and > the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers > and continue in a similar manner. > > 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise > is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a > stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a > storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to > take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units > proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment > vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure > with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to > try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > > Charles R. Patton > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN meeting? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:33:09 -0700 What's the latest with the PSN Meeting? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:40:56 -0700 Casey, This device is very similar to their ADX05. See the following pages for information on this type of sensor chip: http://www.seismicnet.com/adx05chip.txt and http://www.seismicnet.com/strongmotion.html Basically, they are only good for very strong motion. The newer chip may have a little better noise spec. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "David russel" To: Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 7:38 AM Subject: ADXL202 > > Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog > Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? > Casey __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:41:25 EDT In a message dated 4/30/01 12:43:24 AM GMT Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << Hi All, When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. Thanks, Raul >> Hi Raul, I am sorry there seems to be this misunderstanding. It is all my fault. The plan right from the beginning has always been that you would go down to Albuquerque and Charles would fly down to meet you there. Then the two of you would decide what to do with the free Seismometers. Certainly you and others from Colorado are welcome to load as many as you want into your cars to take home. What we have been trying to figure out in recent letters posted on PSN is figure out how we can get the rest of them to some place where they can be taken apart to figure out what is best to do with them and how to make them available to PSN members who might want one. Because Charles has a hanger where he can store them and take a few apart to see what is inside, recent letters have been to him in reference to how best to remove them from the warehouse that Dr. Hutt wants vacated and get them to California. Please rest assured that you are part of the plan and as many as you want are yours to take home with you after the two of you have gotten Dr.Hutt's warehouse cleaned out. I'm sure Charles intends to work with you in meeting Dr. Hutts schedule as to when you both should come to pick them up. Please forgive me for creating this misunderstanding. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fw: KS36000 From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:27:22 -0700 From Bryan Goss: ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bryan & Regina Goss=20 To: Larry Cochrane=20 Cc: Bryan Goss=20 Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Mail prob I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my account = bgoss@.................. I sent you this email using bgoss@......... = can you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send = anything to you using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one = and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay = shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks = Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having = some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage = cost if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the = units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built = seismograph.
From Bryan Goss:
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bryan & = Regina Goss=20
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Mail prob

I tried to send this to you and the = list but I can=20 not using my account bgoss@.................. I = sent you=20 this email using bgoss@.........  can=20 you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send = anything to you=20 using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss
 
 
 
I would like to have or buy one of the = KS36000=20 seismos I called Mr. Hutt
with the = USGS he=20 said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one and
that he had = request=20 for more than one from some people. I would pay shipping
or whatever = If=20 someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan=20 S.
Goss............ Corinth Ms

I have been trying to send this = message=20 to the list, but I am having some kind of trouble I would be willing to = pay for=20 part of the storage cost if necessary or help in any way I could I = really want=20 one of the units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a = home=20 built seismograph.
 
 
Subject: KS36k is a triaxial seismometer From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:03:59 -0500 (CDT) Following up on the info Dennis has provided Re. the KS36k triaxial seismometer. The fundamental design was first described by Melton in 1960, and a patent was granted in 1965 on the "Angular Composite Seismometer" The original prototype design was described in the BSSA in June 1970: "The Symmetrical Triaxial Seismometer - Its Design for Application to Long-Period Seismometry", by Ben S. Melton and B. M. Kirkpatrick; BSSA, Vol 60, No3, Pgs 717-739, June 1970. (B.M.Kirkpatrick was a project engineer at Teledyne Geotech) The research was supported by the Air Force AFTAC, ARPA, and the VELA uniform programs (of the cold war). The borehole prototypes were 10" in diameter and 99" long, and weighed 420 pounds. A single axis module weighed 107 pounds. The basic configuration is that of three identical sensors mounted as in a corner-cube, with the sensitive axis of each inclined inward 53 degrees from the vertical. This is currently used in the STS-2 sensor and the Trillium. The outputs of all three sensors, usually labeled U,V,W, are summed into orthogonal outputs X,Y,Z by resistors. In the STS-2, these resistors are of course identical for the vertical output (25k of of U, 26k of V, and 26k of W). For the Y output, The U channel is the fundamental (0k), summed with 23k of V and 23k of W. The X channel is 19k of U, 38k of V, and 38k of W. So it is important to note that a single sensor of the KS36k will not work as a stand alone seismometer. All three must be used and summed as above. One could remove them from the long borehole casing and operate them in a circle on a pier at 120 deg relative rotation, or put them in a relative fat tank (like the STS-2) on a single base for pier or shallow posthole installation. Or the Ks36k could be kept intact and put into a relative deep hole (gt. 10 meters) to provide the thermal equilibrium that the sensors require. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:48:50 -0600 RJA Can you believe this shit!!!! Am calling Mr Hutt again this AM. Will put the kabash on this latest example of California mentality. Later DL "Raul J. Alvarez" wrote: > Hi All, > > When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there > are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. > Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a > schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would > not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. > > Thanks, > > Raul > > "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > > > Several points: > > > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a > > 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, > > but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and > > half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a > > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > > the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different > > drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on > > this list that could tailgate the load? > > > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > > enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray > > foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and > > the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers > > and continue in a similar manner. > > > > 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise > > is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a > > stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a > > storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to > > take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units > > proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment > > vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure > > with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to > > try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > > > > Charles R. Patton > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:23:37 -0600 Good morning Dave, Whoa Dave, please slow down. You posted this message to the PSN list! Sorry to all of you that received this. We are really not that harsh out here. I am sure we will all get what instruments we need. Cap, I read your letter and appreciate your comments. I certainly will work with Charles to be sure that, above all, we leave Mr. Hutt with a good impression of our group. You are correct in that we need to clear out these units from his warehouse ASAP. I apologize for any misunderstandings that have arisen. Raul "David A. Latsch" wrote: > RJA > > Can you believe this s---!!!! Am calling Mr Hutt again > this AM. Will put the kabash on this latest example > of California mentality. > Later > DL > > "Raul J. Alvarez" wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there > > are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. > > Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a > > schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would > > not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Raul > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:55:51 -0700 First, let me apologize if I left the impression I was trying to abscond with all the units. I was just trying to size up the magnitude of the job if somebody becomes tasked with storing and later shipping the units to various requestors. Second, I realized I hadn't put my name on a request list, so I emailed Dr. Hutt last nignt to put in my request for a unit and ask about whether they were in shipping containers. This is his reply: ************* "The units are **not** in their original shipping containers. However, they are, to some extent, tied down to pallets (something like four or five units to a pallet). Once I figure out how many are left for your group I will contact you again. Please send me a list of the people for whom you are acting. This will help me a lot. The units will be available for pickup starting next week sometime, hopefully by Monday, May 7. However, don't plan on any particular pickup day yet until I do some coordinating and planning this week. Note: The PSN folks that I know about (and who I think are still interested) are: Raul Alvarez Casper Hossfield Karl Cunningham You There are other names on my list that I suspect are associated with PSN, but I don't have that information. Since the number of Test Set/Controllers (TS/Cs) are limited, it would be best if the PSN group could take only one TS/C and share it. (It is only needed at installation time.)" *************** If Raul, myself and others are going to move these units, we need to understand how many units are going where. As Dr. Hutt says above, he doesn't know the affiliation of all the requestors. I would like to request that the PSN members let us and/or Dr. Hutt know if they made a request for one of these units and are anticipating that we (Raul, myself and unknown others) are going to figure out how to ship it to them later (and identifying themselves as PSN members). An additional bit of information is whether you want it intact or it is OK to ship as separate pieces (which I anticipate should be cheaper, but that remains to be verified.) Then using that list together with Dr. Hutt's list we can find out how many units will actually have to be moved around. For instance, if the list above is substantially complete (I know that Angel wants one, so add his name to the list), then forget the truck, I'd use my car trailer to haul the units, and so I would just drive over. I could handle 6 complete units that way, or more if we could break them down immediately and dispense with the cases (a big unknown though). Sincerely, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Greetings...from "Colorful" Colorado :) From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:04:09 -0700 Hi all, In regards to the KS36k seismo in my view, I think we'll all end up in somewhat of a better shape if we can understand that overall the units are far too complex for any one individual to successfully "salvage", setup and maintain.....and to add to that, its more than likely just from their age factor, they are highly likely of NOT being totally fully operational (only, in themselves) to begin with. I'd also logically sure that USGS in Albuquerque will have a variety of individuals OTHER than PSN there for their own interests. One has be there just to obtain "something", to begin with. Its still a first come, first served basis as far as I know.....just to get the items. They could be overwhelmed on the first day or even the first hour. So....in a sense, its possibly better to have a number of PSN type people there, rather than just one or two. Personally, I like alot of the ideas put forth earlier by others...but...if they are not there at the time, their maybe nothing to acquire. I plan to be there, but I also am willing to relinquish any or all parts I'am lucky enough to get, to those individuals who I know have a much better chance of successful reclaimation, while there, or by later shipment. Its also likely that the time of overall involvement by any "volunteer" can eventually take years to do, and the chances of success will not be exactly extremely high. BTW, I'am expecting the New Mexico scenery this time of year to be quite spectacular...that....is going to be the biggest payoff to me, and the only likely "sure thing". Take care, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:26:46 -0400 > From: David russel > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:38:50 -0700 > > Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog > Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? I am working on single board systems using the ADXL202 and ADXL105 accelerometers. Here are some links I have collected on programming and soldering these surface mount chips: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/#links The good news about the ADXL202 is that it is 2 axis and it can be interfaced to a microprocessor counter to read it out. The bad news is that its noise spec is the same as the old ADXL05 chip that Larry Cochrane showed to be too noisy for most seismic work. My experiments with the ADXL202 show noise levels similar to Larry's. http://psn.quake.net/strongmotion.html If we could reduce the ADXL noise level by ~10x then it would be more like the Kinemetrics three component FBA-23A commercial strong motion sensor that Larry compared the ADXL05 to. The newer ADXL105 has half the noise level of the ADXL202, so that is a start. I notice that Larry's data spectra shows that most of the seismic signal he recorded was below 5 Hz, so we could reduce the noise further by by lowpassing the ADXL105 to ~5 Hz rather than the 10Hz LP that Larry used. I am working on an ADXL105 board that does this. It should have a noise level of ~ 0.5mg versus the ~1.6mg of Larry's ADXL05 system. We will probably have to wait for an improved accelerometer chip to get much lower noise. To get some idea of what you might detect with an ADXL based seismic system take a look at some the quake shake maps on the web. Here is a map of peak acceleration from a recent 5.1m quake. http://www.trinet.org/shake/9627721/pga.html If you click on the sensors located in LA (about 150km away), they felt ~0.15%g = ~1.5 mg. That might be just detectable with an ADXL system that had a noise level of ~0.5mg. Since I am in quake impaired VA, I plan to send my ADXL105 board to Jim ODonnell in NV to see how it does against real quakes. Hope this helps, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Planting geophones properly From: GeE777@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:55:05 EDT Hello, For your information, I have a U. S. patent 5,007,031 on a geophone loading tool to load geophones into shallow holes, level and align three component geophones. There is a compass and level in the handle of the loading tool. It also worked well with vertical geophones planted in shallow, sandy holes in the Egyptian Western Dessert. It speeded up production and the planted geophones were, on the avereage, planted vertical. George Erich Geophysical Exploration Consultant e-mail GeE777@....... http://hometown.aol.com/gee777/myhomepage/profile.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: KS36000 From: Victor.Taylor@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:03:46 -0400 I guess everyone would want a box full of snakes, if it was free. Age, and electrical condition should be considered as well. How do you align and calibrate this sensor. Do you need an oil well drilling device to make the hole. Is this an X - Y - Z, gimbaled sensor that requires a special calibrating tool. Who do I talk to, so I can sign up for my box full of snakes. Victor -----Original Message----- From: cochrane@.............. [SMTP:cochrane@............... Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:27 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Fw: KS36000 From Bryan Goss: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan & Regina Goss To: Larry Cochrane Cc: Bryan Goss Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Mail prob I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my account bgoss@.................. I sent you this email using bgoss@......... can you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send anything to you using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage cost if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built seismograph. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:11:51 -0500 (CDT) A further note regarding dismantling the KS36000. Since it is a triaxial sensor, individual parts of it would be essentially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period. A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer. Since these were working systems when they were replaced by the KS54000s (some KS36ks are reported to still be in service), I think that a high priority should go to anyone who wants to spend the effort to install and operate one. I think that the analog electronics should be relatively easy to work with (no mysterious embedded micros), especially if the manuals can be found. (Has anyone asked Dr. Hutt about these?). The marvel of these systems is not so much in the electronics but in the mechanical engineering to minimize noise while still allowing the flexibility needed for remote centering and leveling while being rugged enough to be dragged to the ends of the earth ( i.e. around the former USSR) and surviving some moderate bumps. Everything that I have ever used from Geotech has been designed to last forever, so I don't think that deterioration from age is a factor. (The main reason that the KS36000 was replaced by the KS54000 is that the latter is a broadband fedback instrument using '90s technology.) I would love to have a single KS36k sensor module just to admire the construction. Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to avoid wind and barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for general teleseism detection. I think that the comment by R. Hutt that some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise levels above the original specifications. One would want to install one and operate it to see just what the noise level is. If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it, (I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water). You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing (1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will require some cooperation, and it may even be possible to pool resources and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:55:09 -0700 Dr. Hutt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it is about 500 pages. They are willing to make a limited number of copies in their office for interested parties. I would be willing to get a copy from Dr. Hutt and arrange to get copies made (probably $10-15 each) and send them out to those interested. Dr. Hutt also reiterated that since there is a limited number of the setup and calibration boxes available, hopefully the PSN members can share one and ship it around to those that need it. Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside each individual sensor might have been used to center the mass within its range? The pressure may have been set during production as a means of compensating for manufacturing tolerances in the spring and mechanism. Karl At 04:11 PM 4/30/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I think that the analog electronics should be relatively >easy to work with (no mysterious embedded micros), especially if >the manuals can be found. (Has anyone asked Dr. Hutt about these?). __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Gentlemen: I think folks here are excessively concerned about the fragility of these things. If they are tied down on pallets, then the mass and springiness of the pallets probably creates a package that could get shipped "as is". If you visit an air freight office, you can see really interesting things being shipped by air with rudimentary packaging (including strapped to pallets). Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is often much cheaper than truck. I routinely ship a 150 pound ground-penetrating radar across country for about $75. The key is to specify "slow air freight" instead of "next flight out" and go to the airport yourself. It may sit in Chicago for a day. So, if somebody could come up with a weight and count of the available pallets, you might just ask United Airlines for a quote to ship pallets to different airports for pickup by a local PSN representative. I would guess we're talking $200/pallet or less. If you add pickup on the Albuquerque end, it still might be reasonable. Delivery at the destination would cost extra. You might be able to afford a freight forwarder at the ALBQ end, maybe you ought to get a quote from Emery as well. They could do everything (just remember that slower is cheaper). Doug __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:51:11 -0400 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice writes: > Gentlemen: [edited] > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > often much cheaper than truck. That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. Scotty, give me the coordinates. Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:15:14 -0700 Clever. I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps even one to Italy and one to New Zealand (those would cost a little more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them around? Doug Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > writes: > > Gentlemen: > [edited] > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > often much cheaper than truck. > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > Tom > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:54:14 EDT When we were handling high pressure gas cylinders flat, we put a loop of ~3/4" rope around both ends of the first one, then loops around the second one, pull it tight up against the first and so on. The thickness of the rope (double underneath) acted as cushioning - seemed to work OK and kept them from rolling around and banging up against each other.... Regards, Chris      When we were handling high pressure gas cylinder s flat, we put a loop
of ~3/4" rope around both ends of the first one, then loops around the second
one, pull it tight up against the first and so on. The thickness of the rope
(double underneath) acted as cushioning - seemed to work OK and kept them
from rolling around and banging up against each other....

      Regards,

      Chris Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:07:17 -0400 don't for get Portland International Airport here in maine :-) -Travis >From: Doug Crice >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:15:14 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB74ED6006D40043254D864E082080A1; Mon Apr 30 17:31:23 2001 >Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (unverified [206.184.139.15]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Mon, 30 Apr >2001 17:19:55 -0700 >Received: from georadar.com (adsl-216-103-89-147.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net >[216.103.89.147])by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id >RAA28979for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon Apr 30 17:33:05 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEE0012.F9F83B36@............> >Organization: GeoRadar Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >References: <20010430.195111.-15789073.2.twleiper@........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Clever. > >I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could >go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps >even one to Italy and one to New Zealand (those would cost a little >more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them >around? > >Doug > >Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > writes: > > > Gentlemen: > > [edited] > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > Tom > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- >Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com >19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 >Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:10:47 EDT In a message dated 01/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > The key is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to > determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > Tom Is the winter hibernation over? Chris In a message dated 01/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

The ke y is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to
determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range.
Scotty, give me the coordinates.

Tom
      Is the winter hibernation over?

      Chris Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:20:14 +1200 Doug Crice wrote: > > Clever. > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. regards all Mark (those would cost a little > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them > around? > > Doug > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > writes: > > > Gentlemen: > > [edited] > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: manuals for KS36000 From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) re: KS3600 manuals Karl, Good work in addressing the manual problem. I would have asked Dr. Hutt myself, but he prefers that I devote all my interests to the Beam-Balance tiltmeter project. I no longer have access to a manual (for complicated reasons), so I would be more than happy to pay for a copy for reference. It is possible that I can help resolve problems for those who do get a working instrument. I would also be willing to try to design a home-made basic installation box for the KS36k, to just do simple centering, etc functions, so folks won't have to wait their turn for sharing the Geotech installation test and calibration box every time they wanted to work on their instrument. and Mark, down under: Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down there up is down, etc. And I would wait on digging the hole until your unit lands if it is sent by rocket. Hopefully the impact hole will be in your yard. Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters deep by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing to donate to the first taker. And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: manuals for KS36000 From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:05:22 -1000 UPS has a max weight of 150 lbs, so the units would have to be topped up with helium :-)). I didn't check fedex. $250 for Hawaii, obviously a lot less for ground shipping within the mainland. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Plan 9 from outer space From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:41:56 -0400 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) sean@........... writes: [edited] > Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down there > up is down, etc. Not necessary since the earth rotates the "other" way down there. > Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters deep > by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing to > donate to the first taker. > That's too much trouble. It means I have to dig an identical pit up here in CT, and then ship all the dirt down to you so you can fill up the hole. I'll do it if you split the freight, other- wise we'll have to find a commodities broker who deals in dirt (there are many) and time the trade accordingly. Why not just ship your hole"compressed"? Simply compress the air in the hole down into, let's say, a tiny black hole. The vacuum will cause your pit to collapse and fill in, and then then I can just hurl the black hole into the ground wherever I want to put your pit. I used to be illogical, but now I am just insane. Tom
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) sean@........... writes:
[edited]
> Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down=20 there
> up is down, etc.
 
Not necessary since the earth rotates the "other" way down there.

> Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters= =20 deep
> by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing = to=20
> donate to the first taker.
>
 
That's too much trouble. It means I have to dig an identical
pit up here in CT, and then ship all the dirt down to you so
you can fill up the hole. I'll do it if you split the freight, other-<= /DIV>
wise we'll have to find a commodities broker who deals in
dirt (there are many) and time the trade accordingly.
 
Why not just ship your hole"compressed"? Simply compress
the air in the hole down into, let's say, a tiny black hole. The
vacuum will cause your pit to collapse and fill in, and then
then I can just hurl the black hole into the ground wherever
I want to put your pit.
 
I used to be illogical, but now I am just insane.
 
Tom
Subject: Re: Plan 9 from outer space From: SW6079@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 02:51:15 EDT I have a portable hole that I purchased from a Mr. Wile E. Coyote, If you are interested. Mike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Plan 9 from outer space From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 00:17:05 -0700 At 11:51 PM 4/30/01 , SW6079@....... wrote: >I have a portable hole that I purchased from a Mr. Wile E. Coyote, If you >are interested. Mike. Now, THAT'S funny!! "JD" __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 02:47:46 -0500 In my case it would not be free, unless shipping to Mississippi for some unknown reason is free and I don't think everyone would want a box of snakes mostly just people into herpetology. as for the condition of the KS36000 life is a gamble, and as for calibration and setup the PSN seems to moving quickly toward a solution........ Bryan S Goss ----- Original Message ----- KS36000 From: To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: RE: KS36000 > I guess everyone would want a box full of snakes, if it was free. > Age, and electrical condition should be considered as well. > How do you align and calibrate this sensor. > Do you need an oil well drilling device to make the hole. > Is this an X - Y - Z, gimbaled sensor that requires a special calibrating > tool. > Who do I talk to, so I can sign up for my box full of snakes. > Victor > > -----Original Message----- > From: cochrane@.............. [SMTP:cochrane@............... > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:27 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Fw: KS36000 > > From Bryan Goss: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bryan & Regina Goss > To: Larry Cochrane > Cc: Bryan Goss > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM > Subject: Mail prob > > I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my > account bgoss@.................. I sent > you this email using bgoss@......... can you post > this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send anything to you > using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss > > > > I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. > Hutt > with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get > one and > that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay > shipping > or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks > Bryan S. > Goss............ Corinth Ms > > I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having > some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage cost > if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the units I am > currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built seismograph. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:38:39 -0700 United Airfreight quote from their web site for 2-day service. Assume 4/pallet @ 150 pounds each: 600 pounds, ABQ to DEN (Denver, CO) $147 600 pounds, ABQ to SJC (San Jose, CA) $185 600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 600 pounds, ABQ to SEA (Seattle, WA) $185 Now all we need is somebody to pick up the pallets and schlep them to the airport. Mark Robinson wrote: > > Doug Crice wrote: > > > > Clever. > > > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could > > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand > > now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the > hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. > > regards all > > Mark > > (those would cost a little > > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them > > around? > > > > Doug > > > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > > writes: > > > > Gentlemen: > > > [edited] > > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > > > Tom > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:17:32 EDT In a message dated 30/04/01, karlc@.......... writes: > Dr. Hutt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it > is about 500 pages. > Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside each individual sensor > might have been used to center the mass within its range? Hi there Karl, >>Do changes in the gas pressure with temperature inside the sealed sensors units compensate for expansion or changes in spring constants? [Dennis Recla] No, the sensor is internally compensated so that there are no changes. Once stable in a bore hole, there isn't much temperature change. > nside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to > provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier > electronics that connects via the downhole cable. The canisters can be > opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate, > all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to > top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long. >> I would be very hesitant indeed before trying to open one. The electronics is actually inside the sensor cans? [Dennis Recla] Yes, the compenstation circuits and the capacitive to voltage electronics are inside each canister. So, it looks as if the oscillator/demodulator signal conditioning circuits are inside the sealed sensor cans as might be expected. I presume that the electronics boards shown at the top of the main tube are the summing circuitry, output amplifiers, levelling controls and the power supply converters. It looks as if each sensor is hung on a spherical mounting which can be supplied with compressed air from the small pump to make it levitate, which levels the sensor. Remembering that these units may be 30 years old and the transistors may have been rated for a 10 year life (we tend to forget that valves had a 42 day rated life), it is possible that there could be some which are now a bit noisy as well as being of obsolete type. I wonder now if the USGS has any unwanted spare parts lying around....? Hope that this helps, Chris Chapman In a message dated 30/04/01, karlc@.......... writes:

Dr. Hu tt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it
is about 500 pages.   


Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside ea ch individual sensor
might have been used to center the mass within its range?


Hi there Karl,

>>Do changes in the gas pressure with t emperature inside the sealed sensors
units compensate for expansion or changes in spring constants?

[Dennis Recla]
No, the sensor is internally compensated so t hat there are no changes. Once
stable in a bore hole, there isn't much temperature change.


I
nside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to
provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier
electronics that connects via the downhole cable. The canisters can be
opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate,
all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to
top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long.


>>      I woul d be very hesitant indeed before trying to open one. The
electronics is actually inside the sensor cans?

[Dennis Recla]
Yes, the compenstation circuits and the capac itive to voltage electronics are
inside each canister.

      So, it looks as if the oscillator/demodulator signal conditioning
circuits are inside the sealed sensor cans as might be expected. I presume
that the electronics boards shown at the top of the main tube are the summing
circuitry, output amplifiers, levelling controls and the power supply
converters. It looks as if each sensor is hung on a spherical mounting which
can be supplied with compressed air from the small pump to make it levitate,
which levels the sensor.

      Remembering that these units may be 30 years old and the transistors
may have been rated for a 10 year life (we tend to forget that valves had a
42 day rated life), it is possible that there could be some which are now a
bit noisy as well as being of obsolete type. I wonder now if the USGS has any
unwanted spare parts lying around....?

      Hope that this helps,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:33:53 -0400 >600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 should the need arise, I have access to a trailer capable of transporting the 600 pounds (up to 1000 lbs I think). people can either meet the pallet at Portland if they have the time or I have the ability to transport and store the pallet and people can make arrangements to pick them up (Farmington Maine, about 1 - 2 hour drive form Portland). if anybody in Portland or closer than me has the option, that would work also. A note. 600 lbs per pallet is probably a good estimate. probably when the time comes, a poll should be taken to see how many we have, and how many want one. that way they can be distributed better. Might I make another note. Mr. Hutt mentioned that people already have made claim to some of the units. This would tell me to only expect half of them to still be there. -Travis >From: Doug Crice >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:38:39 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB842DF00374004314BD864E0820C270; Tue May 01 10:52:35 2001 >Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (unverified [206.184.139.14]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 10:43:24 -0700 >Received: from georadar.com (adsl-216-103-89-147.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net >[216.103.89.147])by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id >KAA28014for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 10:39:59 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 10:53:53 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEEF49F.48646F93@............> >Organization: GeoRadar Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >References: <20010430.195111.-15789073.2.twleiper@........> ><3AEE0012.F9F83B36@............> <3AEE0F4D.8648F31@...............> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >United Airfreight quote from their web site for 2-day service. Assume >4/pallet @ 150 pounds each: > >600 pounds, ABQ to DEN (Denver, CO) $147 >600 pounds, ABQ to SJC (San Jose, CA) $185 >600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 >600 pounds, ABQ to SEA (Seattle, WA) $185 > >Now all we need is somebody to pick up the pallets and schlep them to >the airport. > > >Mark Robinson wrote: > > > > Doug Crice wrote: > > > > > > Clever. > > > > > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet >could > > > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > > > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand > > > > now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the > > hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. > > > > regards all > > > > Mark > > > > (those would cost a little > > > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread >them > > > around? > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > > > writes: > > > > > Gentlemen: > > > > [edited] > > > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and >is > > > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > > > > > Tom > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- >Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com >19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 >Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:14 EDT In a message dated 5/1/01 4:45:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... writes: << And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). >> Hi All, Acting on Sean-Thomas's suggestion above, I called UPS to see what the story is. Yes, they can do it but not by the regular UPS Brown Truck service. They have a subsidiary, UPS Logistics, that ships big heavy stuff that regular UPS can't handle. To get a quote call 1 888 866 2329. They quoted $244 for 200 pounds by 2-day air from Albuquerque to Vernon, NJ where I live, about 90 km northwest of New York City. It will be delivered to my home. I don't have to go to the airport to pick it up, which is nice. There is a catch though (naturally). for them to pick it up it must be on a pallet so they can load it on a truck to take it to their air terminal in Albuquerque. UPS Logistics cannot put it on a pallet for you, unfortunately. Next I called "Mailbox, Etc" in Albuquerque, 505 792 0917 (ask for Jerry Beck). They quoted $125 to take a pallet to the USGS warehouse and strap my KS36000 on it and bring it back to their store where they have a contract with UPS. UPS Logistics will then pick it up from MailBox Etc and put it on their plane. So My free :-) KS36000 will cost me a mere $369 !!!. Well, it's only money, and the whole deal is arranged with my credit card. Considering what a fine instrument the Geotech KS36000 is I'm happy and grateful to Dr. Hutt for putting one aside for me. So......Is there anyone in the New York City Area who would like to share this pallet with me? If so, we can each have a free :-) KS36000 for about $200 each. There's plenty of room on the pallet for more seismos if there are others in the NYC area who are interested. I live on a farm so I can park the pallet in my barn until you come for yours. If you have a car that's too small for this beast I might be willing, with some arm twisting, to bring it to you in my pickup truck. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 23:07:00 -0400 would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? or would that require twisting both arms and legs? -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:14 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB8B656003A4004318BD864E08213290; Tue May 01 19:05:15 2001 >Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.5]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 18:56:12 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.ba.1333c5f2 (3950) for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:15 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 19:07:15 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/1/01 4:45:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... >writes: > ><< And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how > long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, > etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve > Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). >> > >Hi All, > >Acting on Sean-Thomas's suggestion above, I called UPS to see what the >story >is. Yes, they can do it but not by the regular UPS Brown Truck service. >They >have a subsidiary, UPS Logistics, that ships big heavy stuff that regular >UPS >can't handle. To get a quote call 1 888 866 2329. They quoted $244 for 200 >pounds by 2-day air from Albuquerque to Vernon, NJ where I live, about 90 >km >northwest of New York City. It will be delivered to my home. I don't have >to >go to the airport to pick it up, which is nice. There is a catch though >(naturally). for them to pick it up it must be on a pallet so they can load >it on a truck to take it to their air terminal in Albuquerque. UPS >Logistics >cannot put it on a pallet for you, unfortunately. > >Next I called "Mailbox, Etc" in Albuquerque, 505 792 0917 (ask for Jerry >Beck). They quoted $125 to take a pallet to the USGS warehouse and strap my >KS36000 on it and bring it back to their store where they have a contract >with UPS. UPS Logistics will then pick it up from MailBox Etc and put it on >their plane. So My free :-) KS36000 will cost me a mere $369 !!!. Well, >it's >only money, and the whole deal is arranged with my credit card. Considering >what a fine instrument the Geotech KS36000 is I'm happy and grateful to Dr. >Hutt for putting one aside for me. > >So......Is there anyone in the New York City Area who would like to share >this pallet with me? If so, we can each have a free :-) KS36000 for about >$200 each. There's plenty of room on the pallet for more seismos if there >are >others in the NYC area who are interested. I live on a farm so I can park >the >pallet in my barn until you come for yours. If you have a car that's too >small for this beast I might be willing, with some arm twisting, to bring >it >to you in my pickup truck. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple KS36000 photos from Dennis Recla From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 21:40:07 -0700 Hi all, Dennis Recla graciously forwarded acouple photos of the KS36000 triaxial seismometer, that are now on the web for your viewing if you wish to see them. http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page062.html Thanks Dennis....its nice to see a view of the engineers and a closer view of the seismometer! Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Bill DiCarlo ka2qep@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 23:51:02 -0400 Hello, Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in Madison,(Northern) NJ. Regards' Bill DiCarlo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Nick & Sophie Caporossi nickcap@............. Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:03:34 -0400 Hi Bill: Yes I also picked up an event at about that time. The Lq wave got here at 02:27:01 utc I'm in Central NJ. It looks like the "P" wave was about 02:23:01 Nick At 11:51 PM 5/1/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > >Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in >Madison,(Northern) NJ. >Regards' > > >Bill DiCarlo >__________________________________________________________ > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Stephen & Kathy mortskm@....... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:17:58 -0700 Hi,, for some reason the lists are behind??? The world helicorder is about 7 hours behind?? http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm But, I do see what looks like long distant waves at a couple webicorders: http://www.geo.arizona.edu/saso/Earthquakes/Current/tuc_lp.html http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id= http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/heli/nm.MPH_LHZ_NM.2001050100.gif Keep your eye on the lists,,, it should show up eventually! Stephen PSN Station #55 near Pilot Hill Ca. 38.828N 120.979W Bill DiCarlo wrote: > Hello, > > Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in > Madison,(Northern) NJ. > Regards' > > Bill DiCarlo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 02:15:10 -0700 At 08:51 PM 5/1/01 , you wrote: >Hello, > >Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in >Madison,(Northern) NJ. >Regards' > > >Bill DiCarlo It can be seen on the following seismogram. Select Long Period or Long Periodx5 to see it best. Don't see it on any lists, yet. http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl "JD" __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: johnc c cole johnccole1@........ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 04:57:36 -0500 Good morning gentlemen Y es, I did receive the event at approximately 02:25:20 5/02/01 . I have four detectors running at 16 to 35 seconds . The 25 second machine did a little better than the others . My name is John C Cole in Pearland, Texas. If I have time, I will post it on Psn. jc ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> Hi Travis, Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design homebrew electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a soldering iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It sure will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:58:33 -0400 I may be able to go to RI, I will have to talk it over with my father (he owns a van, and a class B license for transporting high weight). The price is a bit over my budget so I will wait on it to see if others also use the pallet to cut the cost down. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB962D1002340043190D864E08212610; Wed May 02 07:21:14 2001 >Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.162]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Wed, 2 May >2001 07:12:19 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.3d.b199608 (4324) for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:27 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Wed May 02 07:22:00 2001 >Message-ID: <3d.b199608.28216f52@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? > or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> > >Hi Travis, > >Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it >part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons >lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to >design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design >homebrew >electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people >willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His >suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter >borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty >good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a >soldering >iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It >sure >will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! > >Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area >interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each >of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:13:30 -0400 at >http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm on the reading for station "IU/HKT, Hockley, Texas, USA", can somone tell me what is going on? it looks like someone was dooing line dancing on top of the sensor. -Travis >From: Stephen & Kathy >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:17:58 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB8E738000D4004319DD864E0820C400; Tue May 01 22:34:33 2001 >Received: from smtp02.mail.onemain.com (unverified [63.208.208.73]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 22:19:44 -0700 >Received: (qmail 3021 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 05:17:52 -0000 >Received: from 216-224-143-87.thegrid.net (HELO jps.net) ([216.224.143.87]) >(envelope-sender ) by smtp02.mail.onemain.com >(qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 May 2001 >05:17:52 -0000 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 22:34:41 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEF9886.51CEFDFE@.......> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: ><3AEF8426.F3C4ECEA@...........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi,, for some reason the lists are behind??? The world helicorder is >about 7 >hours behind?? >http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm >But, I do see what looks like long distant waves at a couple webicorders: >http://www.geo.arizona.edu/saso/Earthquakes/Current/tuc_lp.html >http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id= >http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/heli/nm.MPH_LHZ_NM.2001050100.gif >Keep your eye on the lists,,, it should show up eventually! > Stephen > PSN Station #55 > near Pilot Hill Ca. > 38.828N 120.979W > >Bill DiCarlo wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in > > Madison,(Northern) NJ. > > Regards' > > > > Bill DiCarlo > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 06:56:56 -1000 Hi, sorry to ask the question again, I really need to book my flights today or tomorrow. Is the meeting likely to happen. Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:14:37 -0700 Hi Ian, At this point I think the answer is no. I have only had three people reply. If we do have a meeting in the future, I'll make every effort to see that we give 60-90 day advanced notice. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:57 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th Hi, sorry to ask the question again, I really need to book my flights today or tomorrow. Is the meeting likely to happen. Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: dismantle the KS36000 ?? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:54:14 EDT In a message dated 30/04/01, sean@........... writes: > Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to avoid wind and > barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole > should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are > attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for > general teleseism detection. I think that the comment by R. Hutt that > some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise > levels above the original specifications. One would want to install > one and operate it to see just what the noise level is. Sure, but one factor which concerns me is that age of the transistors / microcircuits. I seem to remember that the best that you could get was a projected life of 10 years. These units could be quite a bit older. As a rough temperature guide, 1 m below the soil surface gets rid of most of the daily temperature variations. 10 metres gets a virtually constant all year temperature. I have the figures and equations somewhere, if anyone is interested. The diffusion equation gives an exponential dependance. > If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole > can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it, > (I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the > auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water). You may need to seal the top part of the tube to the surrounding soil fairly effectively. This stops heavy rain from running down the outside of the casing and drastically altering the temperature at the bottom. > You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The > tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing > (1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the > hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will > require some co-operation, and it may even be possible to pool resources > and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver. Apart from the pump and the three valves, there are at least two adjusting motors on each sensor that need to be controlled. Since it is a tri-axial sensor, individual parts of it would > be essentially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN > the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make > the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would > be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period. > A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer Dear Sean-Thomas, 1) The KS36K units have their max. sensitivity at 53 deg to the vertical. If you have all three sensors working fine, there should be no serious problems, should there? 2) Now supposing that you only have two working sensors. You can reinstall them for say E/W and W/E alignment. Shouldn't you be able to get the vertical sensitivity by just adding the signals, while the opposing E/W W/E movements would cancel? If you subtract the signals, the two V signals should cancel and the E/W W/E signals should now add? Wouldn't this give one standard horizontal and a vertical readout after scaling? I note that the internal frame is built in short sections bolted together. 3) If you are from a school or private individual and just want to 'record earthquakes', probably mostly teleseisms, does it really matter that your system is sensitive to both vertical and single axis horizontal waves? OK this is not 'reporting' standards with waveforms that can be looked up, but wouldn't it show the P and the S waves OK, possibly even rather better than a single axis Lehman? The quake signals that you receive may be partially reflected or scattered by local geological features anyway and so won't be 'pure'? While I agree that the units should not be disassembled if possible, I would be interested to hear your views on what alternatives can actually be achieved in practice, please? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 30/04/01, sean@........... writes:

Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to av oid wind and
barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole
should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are
attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for
general teleseism detection.  I think that the comment by R. Hutt that
some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise
levels above the original specifications. One would want to install
one and operate it to see just what the noise level is.


       Sure, bu t one factor which concerns me is that age of the transistors
/ microcircuits. I seem to remember that the best that you could get was a
projected life of 10 years. These units could be quite a bit older.
      As a rough temperature guide, 1 m below the soil surface gets rid of
most of the daily temperature variations. 10 metres gets a virtually constant
all year temperature. I have the figures and equations somewhere, if anyone
is interested. The diffusion equation gives an exponential dependance.

If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole
can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it,
(I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the
auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water).


       You may need to seal the top part of the tube to the surrounding soil
fairly effectively. This stops heavy rain from running down the outside of
the casing and drastically altering the temperature at the bottom.

You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The
tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing
(1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the
hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will
require some co-operation, and it may even be possible to pool resources
and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver.


       Apart fr om the pump and the three valves, there are at least two
adjusting motors on each sensor that need to be controlled.

Since it is a tri-axial sensor, individual pa rts of it would
be ess entially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN
the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make
the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would
be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period.
A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer


Dear Sean-Thomas,

1)       The KS36K units have their max. sensitivity at 53 deg to the
vertical. If you have all three sensors working fine, there should be no
serious problems, should there?

2)       Now supposing that you only have two working sensors. You can
reinstall them for say E/W and W/E alignment. Shouldn't you be able to get
the vertical sensitivity by just adding the signals, while the opposing E/W
W/E movements would cancel? If you subtract the signals, the two V signals
should cancel and the E/W W/E signals should now add? Wouldn't this give one
standard horizontal and a vertical readout after scaling? I note that the
internal frame is built in short sections bolted together.

3)       If you are from a school or private individual and just want to
'record earthquakes', probably mostly teleseisms, does it really matter that
your system is sensitive to both vertical and single axis horizontal waves?
OK this is not 'reporting' standards with waveforms that can be looked up,
but wouldn't it show the P and the S waves OK, possibly even rather better
than a single axis Lehman? The quake signals that you receive may be
partially reflected or scattered by local geological features anyway and so
won't be 'pure'?

      While I agree that the units should not be disassembled if possible, I
would be interested to hear your views on what alternatives can actually be
achieved in practice, please?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:30:14 -0700 Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? PSN will only get one test/set/box. Bob Hutt wrote: > > > If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next > week, here is the information: > > The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is: > > US Geological Survey > 2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D > Albuquerque, NM 87102 > > Directions: Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks. > Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San > Jose). It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve. > > You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in > charge of the warehouse. His phone number is 505-242-8724. His cell > phone is 505-235-3366. Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are: > > John Abbott: 505-242-8728 > Vernon Stoup: 505-242-8730 > > But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up > anything. You can also try calling me if necessary: 505-462-3201. > > > Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD > Scientist-in-Charge > US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY > 801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 > ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > > Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) > Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) > FAX: (505)-462-3299 > Email: hutt@............... > Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > ===================================== Regards, Meredith Lamb Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in
Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email.  The warehouse is open
from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time.  If you picking up
a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of
requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals)....
outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others....
presumably already listed for such?  Suggest you email (or call)
now if their is a question/s on anything.  No mention was made
as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have?
PSN will only get one test/set/box.

Bob Hutt wrote:

 

If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next week, here is the information:

The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is:

US Geological Survey
2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D
Albuquerque, NM 87102

Directions:  Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks.  Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San Jose).  It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve.

You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in charge of the warehouse.  His phone number is 505-242-8724.  His cell phone is 505-235-3366.  Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are:

John Abbott:  505-242-8728
Vernon Stoup:  505-242-8730

But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up anything.  You can also try calling me if necessary:  505-462-3201.
 

Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD
Scientist-in-Charge
US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY
801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300
ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345

Telephone: (505)-462-3200  (main office no.)
Telephone: (505)-462-3201  (direct line)
FAX: (505)-462-3299
Email: hutt@...............
Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov
=====================================

Regards,  Meredith Lamb
 
  Subject: Re: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:00:31 -0700 Meredith -- Did Dr. Hutt say what day they will be available? I originally heard May 7, but then later heard there may be some delay. Thanks. Karl At 03:30 PM 5/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in >Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open >from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up >a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of >requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... >outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... >presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) >now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made >as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? >PSN will only get one test/set/box. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:15:45 -0400 I have started to realize I haven't the budget nor the transportation to pick up one of the units. I guess I will be stuck with my Lehman sensor that barely registers a car driving next to it (poor bearing points). The best of luck to the rest of you though. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB962D1002340043190D864E08212610; Wed May 02 07:21:14 2001 >Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.162]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Wed, 2 May >2001 07:12:19 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.3d.b199608 (4324) for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:27 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Wed May 02 07:22:00 2001 >Message-ID: <3d.b199608.28216f52@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? > or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> > >Hi Travis, > >Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it >part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons >lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to >design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design >homebrew >electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people >willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His >suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter >borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty >good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a >soldering >iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It >sure >will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! > >Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area >interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each >of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:43:03 -0700 Karl Cunningham wrote: > Meredith -- > > Did Dr. Hutt say what day they will be available? I originally heard May > 7, but then later heard there may be some delay. > > Thanks. > Karl > Hi Karl and others, I've no indication of anything to the contrary of the original schedule of from May 7th to the end of June for pickup. Unless he changes it, and someone comes forth, I've going to assume the schedule is remaining the same. I also noted the possible "delay" message....but if I remember right it was at a time when supposedly the units seemed to have more real possiblities of amateur operation, than the previous discouraging notes flying. Dr. Hutt probably got suddenly hit with all kinds of requests. I don't know for sure, but I think he may have meant to try to distribute the units more equitabily, as their was likely requests for more than one unit by single individuals. I originally put in a request for 3, but today I got "reduced" to one, which shows the volume of requests he's getting overall. I'd think that if there is no note past this coming Friday, that the schedule is still on for the beginning distribution date of May 7th. Its a wait and see as USGS can do as it wishes of course. Take care, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: VCO's From: "Tom Frey" tfreyis@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 00:24:19 -0700 I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled = Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' = telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be = very grateful for a shove in the right direction thanks tom tfreyis@........
I am trying to find a schematic or = source for=20 Voltage Controlled Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that = match with=20 Larrys' telemetry demodulator boards.  Does anyone have any = info?  I=20 would be very grateful for a shove in the right direction
 
thanks
tom
tfreyis@........
Subject: one KS36000 From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:37:53 -0500 Can someone pick up my KS36000 I was number 26 on the request list so I = assume I will get one. It would be hard for me to take off work at this = time I will pay for storage for a few weeks and your time Thanks Bryan = S. Goss can send reply to bgoss@.................. or bgoss@.........
Can someone pick up my  KS36000 I = was number=20 26 on the request list so I assume I will get one. It would be hard for = me to=20 take off work at this time I will pay for storage for a few weeks and = your time=20 Thanks Bryan S. Goss
can send reply to bgoss@.................. or = bgoss@.........
 
Subject: Re: VCO's From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 20:09:02 +1200 Heya Tom, A classic old chip which is pretty ideal for this stuff would be the XR2206. http://www.exar.com/products/xr2206 regards Mark > Tom Frey wrote: > > I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled > Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' > telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be > very grateful for a shove in the right direction > > thanks > tom > tfreyis@........ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VCO's From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 01:36:55 -0700 My telemetry board as one on it... -Larry > Heya Tom, > > A classic old chip which is pretty ideal for this stuff would be the > XR2206. > > http://www.exar.com/products/xr2206 > > regards > Mark > > > > Tom Frey wrote: > > > > I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled > > Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' > > telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be > > very grateful for a shove in the right direction > > > > thanks > > tom > > tfreyis@........ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. From: "William B. Combs" bcombs@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 06:25:52 -0500 hey, all you guys that are going to Albuquerque, forget about the stinking seismographs, eat some green chiles for me. Some of you science guys would be murder if Best Buys were to have a sale on seismographs..... Bill Combs' wife in IN ( who won't be going to NM but would like to) -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of meredith lamb Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:30 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? PSN will only get one test/set/box. Bob Hutt wrote: If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next week, here is the information: The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is: US Geological Survey 2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D Albuquerque, NM 87102 Directions: Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks. Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San Jose). It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve. You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in charge of the warehouse. His phone number is 505-242-8724. His cell phone is 505-235-3366. Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are: John Abbott: 505-242-8728 Vernon Stoup: 505-242-8730 But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up anything. You can also try calling me if necessary: 505-462-3201. Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD Scientist-in-Charge US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY 801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) FAX: (505)-462-3299 Email: hutt@............... Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov ===================================== Regards, Meredith Lamb
hey,=20 all you guys that are going to Albuquerque, forget about the stinking=20 seismographs,  eat some green chiles for me.  Some of you = science guys=20 would be murder if Best Buys were to have a sale on = seismographs.....  Bill=20 Combs' wife in IN ( who won't be going to NM but would like=20 to)
-----Original Message-----
From: = psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of meredith=20 lamb
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:30 PM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Directions/instructions in = Albuquerque=20 for those picking up = directly.

Directions/instructions for=20 personal direct equipment pickup in
Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt=20 email.  The warehouse is open
from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain = standard=20 time.  If you picking up
a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have = had a=20 large number of
requests and they can only give you one, (PSN=20 individuals)....
outside of Charles Patton or others picking up = for=20 others....
presumably already listed for such?  Suggest you = email (or=20 call)
now if their is a question/s on anything.  No mention = was made=20
as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they = have?=20
PSN will only get one test/set/box.=20

Bob Hutt wrote:=20

 =20

If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself = next week,=20 here is the information:=20

The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is:=20

US Geological Survey
2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D =
Albuquerque,=20 NM 87102=20

Directions:  Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about = three=20 blocks.  Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn = left (east=20 on San Jose).  It will be on your right just after the gentle = S-curve.=20

You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person = in charge=20 of the warehouse.  His phone number is 505-242-8724.  His = cell=20 phone is 505-235-3366.  Alternate phone numbers in the = warehouse are:=20

John Abbott:  505-242-8728
Vernon Stoup:  = 505-242-8730=20

But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up=20 anything.  You can also try calling me if necessary: =20 505-462-3201.
 =20

Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD
Scientist-in-Charge
US = GEOLOGICAL=20 SURVEY
ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY
801 UNIVERSITY = SE, SUITE=20 300
ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345=20

Telephone: (505)-462-3200  (main office no.)
Telephone:=20 (505)-462-3201  (direct line)
FAX: (505)-462-3299 =
Email:=20 hutt@...............
Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov=20 =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Regards, = =20 Meredith Lamb
 
 
Subject: current status of KS36000 requests From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:01:04 -0700 Dear PSN list, In a conversation with Dr. Hutt yesterday morning, we attempted to sort out how many units were being requested by PSN members. Following is the list as I understand it from Dr. Hutt, emails to Dr. Hutt, and postings on the PSN mail list: pcs name 2 Raul J. Alvarez ralvarez@........ can p/u himself 3 meredith lamb mlamb1@.......... can p/u himself 1 Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... can p/u himself 2 Bob Lewis relj@............... (himself and one friend) can p/u himself 2 Casper Hossfield CapAAVSO@............. help for p/u and shipping to Hewitt, NJ 07421 1 Jack Ivey ivey@................. help for p/u and shipping ? 1 Bryan Goss bgoss@........................ help for p/u and shipping 1 Charles Patton charles.r.patton@........ 1 Angel Rodriguez angelr@.................. help for p/u and shipping to Panama 0 Travis Farmer" travis5765@.................... request 5/3 due to potential cost of transport Additional omments: * There are 10 shipping containers as has been described, the rest of the units are strapped to pallets. * 13 units are missing the outside top connector. This connector is bolted on and plugs into another connector inside. This outside connector is the strong one used to maneuver the unit in and out of the borehole along with electrical connection. * Pick-up starts next week through the end of June. * Dr. Hutt has requests not only from the list above, but from universities and companies (willing to take them all.) He is giving some preference to the PSN list, but you need to make that known, but it appears now that he has enough requests that he won't give us extras just to store for some possible future need. So make your request now and identify yourself as a PSNer. * He will give one of the control boxes for PSN to share as they are only needed during setup. I will coordinate with Karl Cunningham on the units that can't be picked up by the requestors themselves If there are errors in the above list, please inform us immediately. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR From: "Tom Frey" tfreyis@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:25:08 -0700 Just retried it again with only 3 channels it works fine even at 200 = SPS. Still wont do 4, but three will work for now tata
Just retried it again with only 3 = channels it works=20 fine even at 200 SPS. Still wont do 4, but three will work for = now
 
tata
Subject: seismometer on ebay From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 15:37:27 -0400 Hi gang, I just started an auction on ebay (No. 1428527421) for a long-period horiz. (Sprengnether?) seismometer with a glass case. The auction ends 5/13. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: low power VCO From: sean@........... Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:56:42 -0500 (CDT) Tom, I can send you the schematic and artwork for the VCO that I designed that was used in the 55 USGS telemetry stations in New Madrid, the Aleutian network, as well as in Greece and Soviet Asia. At one time Sprengnether was producing it for us as part of the micropower Amp/VCO telemetry cannister. It is a micropower system (power about 0.5ma at +.- 4.05 volts) with active temperature compensation with the standard IRIG frequencies of 420, 680, 1020, 1360, 1700, 2040, 2720, 3060, and 3400 hz. It uses the VCO section of the micropower CD4046, and LM4250 op-amps. The output is a sine derived by an 8-step summation. Unfortunately the design is pre-web, and nothing has been scanned. The DC-DC converter design was published in BSSA long ago. "A 50-Milliwatt Power Converter to Replace Mercury Batteries in Seismic Amplifier/VCO Systems", Bull. Seism. Soc. Am., 72, ....... The whole telemetry cannister (same dia. but 3x as long as an L4-C seis) operates on 4 ma at 13 volts from the VHF transmitter battery. Some are still in use. If you send me an address, I can mail the info. If you only want one board, I can probably send you a blank ready to load. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:17:39 -0400 On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. Anybody else tried a setup like this? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:31:39 -0400 HI this is Randy from Toronto. This message is on behalf Tony Tony has a sprengnether long period vertical seismometer for free.. contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
HI this is Randy from = Toronto.
 
This message is on behalf = Tony
 
Tony has a sprengnether long period = vertical=20 seismometer for free..
contact Tony at  tonyfl@.........
 
Subject: Re: Seismometer From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:24 -0400 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JORD=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Seismometer HI this is Randy from Toronto. This message is on behalf Tony Tony has a sprengnether long period vertical seismometer for free.. contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JORD
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 = 4:31=20 PM
Subject: Seismometer

HI this is Randy from = Toronto.
 
This message is on behalf = Tony
 
Tony has a sprengnether long period = vertical=20 seismometer for free..
contact Tony at  tonyfl@.........
 
Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 17:00:14 -0700 Hi all -- I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I apologize, but please let me know ASAP. Rank Qty Name 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez 9 3 Meredith Lamb 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend 18 2 Casper Hossfield 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend 20 1 Bryan Goss 21 1 Charles Patton 24 1 Jack Ivey 27 1 Tony Potenzo To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of June. See his email at the bottom of this message. In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, myself, Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is disappointment and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. Karl The email from Dr. Hutt follows: >>Karl, >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now number >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. >> >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my >>overall list of everybody. >> >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list actually >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! >> >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in >>your station wagon due to the weight. >> >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. >>Regards, >>Bob Hutt >> >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez >>9. meredith lamb >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) >>18. Casper Hossfield >>24. Jack Ivey >>20. Bryan Goss >>21. Charles Patton >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it originally >>came in just before Raul's request. >>27. Tony Potenzo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 23:22:10 -0700 Hi Travis, Your drawing looks excellent to me....it totally conveys the communication of the item description...the most important aspect. You must be a computer artist? I'am sure the approach has been checked on before in the PSN past emails. I've not heard of much success or satisfaction in that kind of physical adoption....the coil preferably needs more wire wraps than it has.....the more wire....the more the signal it can generate, to the amplifier and etc. It was nice to hear though, of someone doing some experimenting with available materials. Another item that "might" yield a coil, is perhaps some of these rechargeable items like toothbrushes etc. Adopting any particular coil to a magnet that will accomodate it is also sometimes kind of a challenge.....let alone all the other parts of a home brew seismo.....but it can be fun to try. Take care, Meredith Lamb Travis Farmer wrote: > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > -Travis > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 01:05:46 -0500 Here is my shipping address: Bryan S.Goss 73 Cr 119 Corinth MS 38834 Phone 1-662-287-5341 I can send you a money order for shipping cost and your time, gas or whatever. Please let me know what to send you and to what address. Thanks for your time I look forward to this project :> PS I would like to purchase a copy of the manual as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Cunningham To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:00 PM Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers > Hi all -- > > I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the > bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this > writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to > seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting > seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. > Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list > via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they > not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is > referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I > apologize, but please let me know ASAP. > > Rank Qty Name > 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez > 9 3 Meredith Lamb > 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend > 18 2 Casper Hossfield > 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend > 20 1 Bryan Goss > 21 1 Charles Patton > 24 1 Jack Ivey > 27 1 Tony Potenzo > > To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no > shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of > June. See his email at the bottom of this message. > > In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need > to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of > him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will > pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my > understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick > up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, myself, > Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles > and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is > ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone > has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. > > When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not > be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I > will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. > > I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make > copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. > > For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is disappointment > and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who > worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, > pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts > to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. > > Karl > > > The email from Dr. Hutt follows: > > >>Karl, > >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email > >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now number > >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of > >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. > >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the > >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. > >> > >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from > >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my > >>overall list of everybody. > >> > >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At > >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more > >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list actually > >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, > >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! > >> > >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 > >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without > >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 > >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in > >>your station wagon due to the weight. > >> > >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper > >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with > >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. > >>Regards, > >>Bob Hutt > >> > >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez > >>9. meredith lamb > >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) > >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) > >>18. Casper Hossfield > >>24. Jack Ivey > >>20. Bryan Goss > >>21. Charles Patton > >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the > >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it originally > >>came in just before Raul's request. > >>27. Tony Potenzo > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:13:03 -0400 Another option, assuming they are still available, would be one of those generators for phones. using just the armature and magnets, it should produce a good output. the one I have has what I am guessing to be about 10000 turns of 1/2 hair thick wire. As for the drawing, thanks for the complement. I figured it was a poor drawing. the magnets for it I found to be very powerful. sliding a screwdriver into the magnet slot and then pulling it out is with great difficulty. kind of makes you wonder though. how can they be this powerful, inside the drive, and not erase the data? -Travis >From: "meredith lamb" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. >Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 23:22:10 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBB8A2A007640043116D864E082131F0; Thu May 03 22:34:00 2001 >Received: from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (unverified [206.196.128.6]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id > for ; Thu, 3 May >2001 22:24:41 -0700 >Received: (qmail 98129 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 2001 05:22:59 -0000 >Received: from wdialup86.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (216.160.142.86) >by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 May 2001 05:22:59 -0000 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Thu May 03 22:34:28 2001 >Message-ID: <3AF24A92.A4E82D19@.........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi Travis, > >Your drawing looks excellent to me....it totally conveys the >communication of the item description...the most important aspect. >You must be a computer artist? > >I'am sure the approach has been checked on before in the PSN >past emails. I've not heard of much success or satisfaction in >that kind of physical adoption....the coil preferably needs more >wire wraps than it has.....the more wire....the more the signal >it can generate, to the amplifier and etc. It was nice to hear >though, of someone doing some experimenting with available >materials. Another item that "might" yield a coil, is perhaps >some of these rechargeable items like toothbrushes etc. >Adopting any particular coil to a magnet that will accomodate >it is also sometimes kind of a challenge.....let alone all the other >parts of a home brew seismo.....but it can be fun to try. > >Take care, > >Meredith Lamb > > >Travis Farmer wrote: > > > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided >moderate > > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component >and > > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking >about. It > > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I >got > > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > > > -Travis > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 06:24:33 -1000 I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy at just over $100. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:56:58 -0400 on the first line at about the 57 minute mark, it looks like somebody fell off a ladder or something. although by the time, I don't think they were at work. Did you fall out of bed? seems like something happened, it's a pretty big spike. -Travis >From: ian >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: new real-time display >Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 06:24:33 -1000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBC278A00C5400438A0D864E0820BBC0; Fri May 04 09:45:00 2001 >Received: from flex.com (unverified [206.126.0.13]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id >for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 09:26:20 -0700 >Received: from iasmith.com ([206.126.5.34])by flex.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with >ESMTP id f44GOZC11147for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 06:24:35 >-1000 (HST) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Fri May 04 09:46:56 2001 >Message-ID: <3AF2D7C1.20F897A3@...........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: ><3AF24A92.A4E82D19@.........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. >Still >testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still >have >house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > >I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. >Looks >good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a >linux >system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little >pricy >at just over $100. > >Ian Smith > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:34:08 -1000 Hi, Normally I just dismiss these occassional spikes - I don't think I'm sleep walking! Your email has prompted me to look at the data though, see http://www.iasmith.com/spike.jpg It looks like it might be real. The frequency analyses shows it peaks around 4.5 Hz, which is the frequency spec of my geophone, so not a digitisation/amplification artifact. I'm only 20 miles from the worlds "most active" volcano, so it probably twitched, again. cheers Travis Farmer wrote: > on the first line at about the 57 minute mark, it looks like somebody fell > off a ladder or something. although by the time, I don't think they were at > work. Did you fall out of bed? seems like something happened, it's a pretty > big spike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:13:15 -0400 Ian Smith, Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to discover that it is on Hilo. 1. Location lat & lon 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. 3. Filter specs. Bob Barns ian wrote: > > I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still > testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have > house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > > I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks > good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux > system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy > at just over $100. > > Ian Smith > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Integrated circuit. From: "Al. Frielink" allink@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:13:52 -0400 To All, I am looking for a place to purchase some discontinued voltage controlled attenuators type MC3340. I have tried several surplus stores but have had no luck. Would appreciate any help. BFN Al. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 08:38:25 -1000 Hi, thanks for the suggestions. Actually I was thinking exactly the same thing myself. I'll add the changes over the weekend. Until today, this graph has anonymously lived on my pc screen, so I hadn't added useful things like those you mention, - 4.5 Hz, vertical geophone with 4 to 10 Hz band pass filter. Cheers Ian Smith BOB BARNS wrote: > Ian Smith, > Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info > would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to > discover that it is on Hilo. > 1. Location lat & lon > 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. > 3. Filter specs. > Bob Barns __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:18:10 -0400 Hi Bob. Another question? Is it possible to hook up a laptop to my Lehman seis? I have an old Toshiba 486? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB BARNS" To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: new real-time display > Ian Smith, > Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info > would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to > discover that it is on Hilo. > 1. Location lat & lon > 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. > 3. Filter specs. > Bob Barns > > ian wrote: > > > > I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still > > testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have > > house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > > > > I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks > > good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux > > system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy > > at just over $100. > > > > Ian Smith > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:41:02 -0700 Travis I believe I have heard other people on the list say they were using coils from speakers. For my coils, I used #34 magnet wire (real thin copper wire with a transparent plastic coating, looks orange-reddish due to the copper) to wind my coils. I got a bunch of it from an electronic parts, ham radio supply store. I used a wooden dowel, kitchen countertop laminate from the hardware store, and brass bolts (non-magnetic) to create a coil form. The size of my coils was limited by the horseshoe magnet I was using. The coil width had to be less than the width of the magnet gap. The depth was practically limited by the possible motion through the gap towards the bottom of the U of the magnet. I was using a metal lathe for another project and one night I set it up to turn at a slow rate (I eventually sped it up to about 100 RPM). I mounted the coil form on a wood dowel in the lathe chuck. I put the spool of wire on a piece of pipe so it would turn freely. I put on some gloves to protect my fingers. As the lathe turned, I fed the fine wire through the gloves to keep enough tension for efficient wrapping and to direct where it was laid down. With my other hand I turned the reel of copper wire so that at no time was the full force placed on the wire. This approach worked pretty good. It required a couple of hours to wrap a coil, so over the course of a couple of nights I wrapped 2 or 3 of them. Even with so crude a wrapping mechanism, I found that moving the coil through the gap of the horseshoe magnet by hand generated as much as 1 volt on the output of the coil. This produces good results on the seismograph. If you are using a horseshoe magnet, part of the solution is to get a magnet with a gap large enough for a reasonable size coil. If this was any use to you, and you want more details (e.g. part details, supply sources), let me know. Ron Westfall -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer [mailto:travis5765@............. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:18 PM To: Psn-L Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. Anybody else tried a setup like this? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Integrated circuit. From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:57:07 -0700 Al, I don't know what your trying to do, but if you can make circuit modifications, you may be able to use an RCA device called out as a CA3080 and also an LM3080. Jameco sells them for penneys. They're in an 8 pin Dip package. Can find data on them at most data sheet web sites. Hope this helps. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:12:51 -0700 Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:31:49 -0400 Ron, Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by accelerating the spool. Bob "Westfall, Ron" wrote: > > Travis > > I believe I have heard other people on the list say they were using coils > from speakers. > > For my coils, I used #34 magnet wire (real thin copper wire with a > transparent plastic coating, looks orange-reddish due to the copper) to wind > my coils. I got a bunch of it from an electronic parts, ham radio supply > store. > > I used a wooden dowel, kitchen countertop laminate from the hardware store, > and brass bolts (non-magnetic) to create a coil form. > > The size of my coils was limited by the horseshoe magnet I was using. The > coil width had to be less than the width of the magnet gap. The depth was > practically limited by the possible motion through the gap towards the > bottom of the U of the magnet. > > I was using a metal lathe for another project and one night I set it up to > turn at a slow rate (I eventually sped it up to about 100 RPM). I mounted > the coil form on a wood dowel in the lathe chuck. I put the spool of wire > on a piece of pipe so it would turn freely. I put on some gloves to protect > my fingers. As the lathe turned, I fed the fine wire through the gloves to > keep enough tension for efficient wrapping and to direct where it was laid > down. With my other hand I turned the reel of copper wire so that at no > time was the full force placed on the wire. This approach worked pretty > good. It required a couple of hours to wrap a coil, so over the course of a > couple of nights I wrapped 2 or 3 of them. > > Even with so crude a wrapping mechanism, I found that moving the coil > through the gap of the horseshoe magnet by hand generated as much as 1 volt > on the output of the coil. This produces good results on the seismograph. > > If you are using a horseshoe magnet, part of the solution is to get a magnet > with a gap large enough for a reasonable size coil. > > If this was any use to you, and you want more details (e.g. part details, > supply sources), let me know. > > Ron Westfall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Travis Farmer [mailto:travis5765@............. > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:18 PM > To: Psn-L > Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. > > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > -Travis > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:00:13 -0400 I have inquired and tried it. Most soundcards have a high pass filter set at 10 Hz. This means any frequency below 10 Hz is lost. -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of David russel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:04:43 -0400 What about the game port? Anybody know the stats? (resolution, ect...) I know the frequency can't be limited much because just moving the joystick is probably less than or equal 5 Hz. Any ideas? -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of David russel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:31:39 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes: > I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with > the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of > about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your > computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging > Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes:

  ;      I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with
the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of
about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your
computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging
then plotting it.


      Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the
raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB
per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need
to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input
filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice
would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit
busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: readings.... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 19:30:36 -0700 Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Bob rwspahn@............. Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:06:15 -0500 Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital. A sound card can do frequency conversion. Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial port. Bob ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes: > > >> I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, >> with >> the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of >> >> about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your >> computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak >> averaging >> then plotting it. > > Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to > intercept the > raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files > of MB > per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level > would need > to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the > input > filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My > choice > would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a > bit > busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital.
A sound card can do frequency conversion.
Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial port. 
Bob

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes:
 
       I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with
the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of
about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your
computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging
then plotting it.

      Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the
raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB
per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need
to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input
filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice
would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit
busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 23:52:17 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, rwspahn@............. writes: > Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you > could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems > worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital. > A sound card can do frequency conversion. > Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had > an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial > port. > Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow. If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming. Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy, you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 05/05/01, rwspahn@............. writes:

Why no t just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you
could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems
worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital.
A sound card can do frequency conversion.
Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had
an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial
port.  
Bob


      Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the
A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You
guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow.

      If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and
measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming.
Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy,
you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Mark Robinson" other@............... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:55:41 +1200 This high pass filter usually consists mainly of a small electrolytic capacitor in series with the input of the sound card. I can't see any reason that the capacitor cannot be shorted out (DC coupled, high end audiophiles love that) and perhaps the configuration of the rest of the input circuit tweaked somewhat to provide a cheap high resolution ADC. However, I have been completely too lazy and hopeless to figure out how to drive the thing from the software side. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Farmer" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 1:00 PM Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp > I have inquired and tried it. > Most soundcards have a high pass filter set at 10 Hz. This means any > frequency below 10 Hz is lost. > > -Travis > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. > Behalf Of David russel > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM > To: PSN-L@.............. > Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp > > Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method > of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. > > I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with > the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of > about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your > computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging > then plotting it. > > Anyone ever done somth'in like this? > > Casey > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:08:43 -0700 Hi Chris -- It's really not that hard. A long time ago I wrote a frequency measuring program for DOS in C that measured the output of an anemometer. It counted pulses over a one-second period, then waited for the next full pulse, then divided the total number of pulses received by the total time period over which they were received, to get frequency. This worked quite well and, using a microcontroller, was later made into a product that would measure frequency up to 50kHz. A microprocessor could pretty easily be made to do this same thing, making tabulations 20 times per second of an input carrier signal at, say 1kHz. The output could be via serial port or whatever. To get 16-bit resolution, 20Hz * 65536 = 1.3MHz clock rate on the microprocessor. You would also need a real-time clock. Quite feasible, I believe. One advantage of FM is that you can send the modulated carrier a long distance over noisy lines and reject much of that noise at the other end. The trick here may be to design a modulator that has the noise level / stability required. Karl Friday, May 04, 2001, 20:52:17, you wrote: Cac> Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the Cac> A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You Cac> guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow. Cac> If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and Cac> measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming. Cac> Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy, Cac> you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway. Cac> Regards, Cac> Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Jan Froom Froom@............. Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 09:10:59 +0000 You guys all sound like you work for IBM.... How to take something simple and make it horribly complex. The KISS principal is so much more elegant jAn __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: MC3340 From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 13:15:49 -0500 (CDT) Al, I just looked in last year's Newark catalog #117 and it lists the MC3340 on page 878 for $3.45 ea. Whether they actually have them ..... Try www.newark.com. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: coil/magnet info From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:34:37 -0500 (CDT) Regarding producing a suitable magnet and coil for a seismometer: Last year I described how I was making a powerful coil/magnet system for a new broadband instrument, using a rare-earth magnet assembly made with bought parts (for about $30) and a hand wound formless coil of 1200 turns. (#36 Beldsol wire about $5). The transducers all have a constant of about 10.5 Newtons/Ampere (Volts/meter/second). I have made about a dozen for the project so far. They are quite compact, and suitable for either a force feedback coil or a simple velocity transducer for a Lehman design. I can repeat the info if there is a need. I believe that several PSNers have successfully made several versions. The design certainly lends itself to simplicity and repeatability. A few comments though. A transducer's output has to be described in Newtons/Ampere or V/m/sec. Any coil/magnet will produce an infinite voltage if you move the coil fast enough. The force constant is easily determined by a simple balance setup, where the deflection caused by a test weight is balanced by controlling a variable current in the coil. Bob has suggested letting the wire wind off the end of the spool. I find that this twists the wire, causing potential management problems where the layers have to be formed very uniformly. I made a "dispenser" with a shallow box and dowel through the small (1/4 lb) spool, and a variable tensioner made by passing the wire through a post-it note pad, where various weights on top of it control the tension. The formless design requires that each coil layer be carefully laid up, so I turn the temporary form by hand. I may later clamp down a VSR drill to do the job, and control it with a footswitch and electronic brake. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:37:37 -0700 What the heck is the KISS principal ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 16:45:26 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, ogzax@........ writes: > What the heck is the KISS principal ? > Keep It Simple Stupid! But don't Keep It Stupidly Simple? Regards, Chris In a message dated 05/05/01, ogzax@........ writes:

What t he heck is the KISS principal ?

      Keep It Simple Stupid!

      But don't Keep It Stupidly Simple?

      Regards,

      Chris

             
Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:16:46 -0700 E-Ghads ! I walked into that one ! Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: homebrew data logging program From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:42:17 -0700 I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick Basic which is but a glorified three Channel oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to any thing. How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores impacting the sampling rate ? Is there an answer out there ? singed, anxiety's child Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: readings.... From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:12:21 -0500 Hello Kareem, I found that the book "Anatomy of Seismograms" by Oto Kulhanek to be a very clear and easy to read book about how to interpret seismograms. It's a bit pricey but that book increased my enjoyment of this hobby many fold. regards, angel Friday, May 04, 2001, 9:30:36 PM, you wrote: KLSJ> Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram KLSJ> and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic KLSJ> "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious KLSJ> that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of KLSJ> seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. KLSJ> Kareem Lanier KLSJ> www.HeyJooJoo.com KLSJ> __________________________________________________________ KLSJ> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) KLSJ> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with KLSJ> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe KLSJ> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 18:21:09 -0400 do you have a schematic for the circuit? i have a few of the ADC0808 chips (similar connection i think). -Travis >From: David russel >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L@.............. >Subject: homebrew data logging program >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:42:17 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDC18800684004319CD864E08209480; Sat May 05 14:54:22 2001 >Received: from m7.jersey.juno.com (unverified [64.136.16.70]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 5 May >2001 14:45:25 -0700 >Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for ><"ZENl8H70m13btokbG8N4Knklvtek3lp8Xyhf2QwIBxs="> >Received: (from ogzax@......... by m7.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id >F4P5C7GX; Sat, 05 May 2001 17:43:13 EDT >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 14:54:54 2001 >Message-ID: <20010505.144221.-235425.1.Ogzax@........> >X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.29 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-10,12-16 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit >convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. >It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in >the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick >Basic which is but a glorified three Channel >oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. >I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also >control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to >any thing. > > How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? >and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores >impacting the sampling rate ? > > Is there an answer out there ? > singed, anxiety's child > >Casey >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: using microcontroller for date aquasition and storage. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:42:49 -0400 I have been looking at the National Semiconductor CR16MCS9 chip. It has an 8 bit 12 channel ADC. The processor is 16 bit RISC, 25 MHz, and up to 56 general purpose I/O pins. More info, datasheets, and Free samples (up to 5) can be found at http://www.national.com/pf/CR/CR16MCS9.html . Unfortunately I don't have skills in soldering micro circuit components so I haven't tried much yet. My idea is to build something that you can use with standard drives (floppy, hard, zip, tape, ect...) for data storage. There is an evaluation board for sale also. It is mounted with a PC-104 interface, rs232 (db9), and a few other features. As I am mainly just an idea man and rarely have the resources to do anything with them, I have brought it to the attention of you guys. The way I figure it, you can build something up so all you have to do is collect data every now and then (or run a very long rs232 cable to your computer) and just build the components into a weather sealed box. Then just leave it with the seismo. Any thoughts? Ideas? Volunteers to build one for me ;-) ? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 15:56:02 -0700 Travis, I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: readings.... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:02:05 -0700 Great. I'll look around for it. Thanks Angel. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Angel Rodriguez Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 3:12 PM To: Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo Subject: Re: readings.... Hello Kareem, I found that the book "Anatomy of Seismograms" by Oto Kulhanek to be a very clear and easy to read book about how to interpret seismograms. It's a bit pricey but that book increased my enjoyment of this hobby many fold. regards, angel Friday, May 04, 2001, 9:30:36 PM, you wrote: KLSJ> Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram KLSJ> and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic KLSJ> "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious KLSJ> that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of KLSJ> seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. KLSJ> Kareem Lanier KLSJ> www.HeyJooJoo.com KLSJ> __________________________________________________________ KLSJ> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) KLSJ> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with KLSJ> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe KLSJ> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: coil/magnet info From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:12:30 EDT In a message dated 5/5/01 8:40:33 PM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... writes: << Last year I described how I was making a powerful coil/magnet system for a new broadband instrument, using a rare-earth magnet assembly made with bought parts (for about $30) and a hand wound formless coil of 1200 turns. (#36 Beldsol wire about $5). >> Sean-Thomas, Could you please post the directions again for making your powerful coil/magnet system and how to wind the formless coil. I would like to try making one and probably others would be interested in how to make one too. Thanks very much, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:40:38 -0400 travis5765@............ (my hotmail.com kills attachments for some reason) -Travis >From: Casey Crane >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 15:56:02 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDD42E00AE4004311DD864E0820F1D0; Sat May 05 16:13:52 2001 >Received: from m7.jersey.juno.com (unverified [64.136.16.70]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 5 May >2001 15:59:10 -0700 >Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for ><"ZENl8H70m13btokbG8N4Kmy/7/utumU9aGRmJWq/AeE="> >Received: (from ogzax@......... by m7.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id >F4P9LEWD; Sat, 05 May 2001 18:57:05 EDT >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 16:15:46 2001 >Message-ID: <20010505.155605.-232021.0.Ogzax@........> >X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.29 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Travis, > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the >delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? > > >Casey >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:57:33 -0700 All, I have been seeing a lot of "thank you" type messages as will as others type of messages that should only be sent to the originator, not to the whole list. Please only use the list if you have something all, or most of us, will be interested in. Sending "thank you" type messages just clogs up the list. Travis, sending attachments is not allowed on this list. I recently modified the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN > Travis, > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the > delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: interpreting seismograms From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:00:38 -0500 (CDT) Kareem, The definitive text is a USGS (then dept of Commerce, later NOAA) publication "The Principles of Interpreting Seismograms". It is about 100 pages, and has pockets that contain large travel-time graphs for events at various depths. I don't have the publication details here at home. If you need them, I will get them. About a year ago someone on the PSN net was providing copies at cost. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:27:13 -0700 Thank you larry. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: ian ian@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 15:37:22 -1000 > I recently modified > the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. quite understandable. It would be useful if there could be an ftp area we could up-load images to for others to view with a browser. Anything older than say a week or 2 could be purged. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:44:38 -0700 Apparently some people can't follow directions.....Just for the record people who do not follow the list rules will be blocked for posting messages. The list rules are documented here http://www.seismicnet.com/joinpsn.txt. This text file was sent to you when you subscribed to the list. I'm also including it with this message. -Larry List Rules: 1) Keep all posts as short as possible and to the point. (I only have a certain amount of bandwidth to send out email messages) 2) If you are including words from someone else's post (that you are referring or responding to), do NOT include more than a line or two of that post... we have already seen what they wrote. When replying, please edit out the following message appended to each outgoing PSN-L message: __________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message: unsubscribe PSN-L 3) Do not send personal messages through the list. - post to the list if you think your information would be beneficial for everyone to read (this is how we all can learn) - post directly to the individual if it is a personal note, an "I agree with what you said" or "Thank you" type notes. 4) Do not send "me too's", "I agree's" or such to the list (it just wastes my bandwidth and other peoples time). 5) Do NOT send computer virus warnings (such as the "good times" virus) to the list; these are spams and not true (again, don't waste our time "warning" us of these) 6) Send only TEXT messages to the list. Do not include any attachments, HTML tags (this is referring to HTML code not links), or so forth. If you have a picture, or other binary type files to share with the group, you can uploaded when using FTP to ftp://ftp.seismicnet.com/info. See below for more information. 7) ALWAYS treat everyone here with respect and post with professionalism. Any abusive, sarcastic, or berating behavior on the list will be cause for list suspension and will not be tolerated. Please report any occurrences of this to the listowner (cochrane@................ 8) This list is closed meaning only list members can post to the list. This is done to prevent spammers from sending messages to the list. When you post to the list the From: address must match the address you used when subscribing to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Crane" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read > Thank you larry. > > Casey __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:51:58 -0400 I’m not the one trying to post attachments. I was the one saying that if I need to give access to a file, rather than attaching it, I upload it to a temp directory on my web server and provide a link to it. I do this for the same reason you don't allow attachments to be posted. not only does it clog the list but those who don't won’t or need the file don't have to download it. -Travis >From: "Larry Cochrane" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >Subject: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:57:33 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDEFCA0069400437AAD864E082053F1; Sat May 05 18:11:41 2001 >Received: from sys1 (unverified [66.92.4.81]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for >; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:59:05 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 18:13:13 2001 >Message-ID: <066001c0d5c7$8c3eada0$51045c42@sys1> >References: <20010505.155605.-232021.0.Ogzax@........> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >All, > >I have been seeing a lot of "thank you" type messages as will as others >type >of messages that should only be sent to the originator, not to the whole >list. Please only use the list if you have something all, or most of us, >will be interested in. Sending "thank you" type messages just clogs up the >list. > >Travis, sending attachments is not allowed on this list. I recently >modified >the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. > >Regards, >Larry Cochrane >Redwood City, PSN > > > > Travis, > > > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the > > delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:52:36 -0700 Ian, I can do this, but people would have to use an ftp user/password that I send them to get into my system. This would only be needed for the upload. The directory would be open of read by ftp and the web server. I can't leave a directory open for write using the anonymous account. It wouldn't take long before someone looking around on my system to discover the open for write directory and start using it for their own purpose. I don't have the time right now to set it up but I will added it to my to do list. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read > > I recently modified > > the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. > > quite understandable. It would be useful if there could be an ftp area we could > up-load images to for others to view with a browser. Anything older than say a > week or 2 could be purged. > > Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The Very Broadband Beam-Balance Tiltmeter From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:14:40 -0700 Sean-Thomas, Checked your website for the new tiltmeter design. Hope you can be "prodded enough", to get more text and PICTURES, LOTS and LOTS of PICTURES thereon....ha. http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/abstracts.html Are you using the same speaker type feedback mechanism as you do on your vertical seismometer design or is it via the copper wire coils you've mentioned making very recently, or something else? Could such a tiltmeter electronically or by computer program somehow eliminate tilt "noise" from other broadband horizontal seismometers outputs/seismograms somehow? Thanks, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: new additions to list From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 13:50:15 +1000 hi all, the latest set of additions and updates to the maps and database.... thankyou for sending in ur info would like to take this opportunity to welcome the mew members to the PSN... I hope u find ur time with the group very rewarding Travia Farmer USA Jean-Claude Roches Switzerland Randall Pratt USA -------------------------- Wayne Abraham thanks for the updates Bob Barns likewise and sorry for missing u out in the last updates i missed ur email, my apologies Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 00:00:56 -0700 Hi all, A note from Dennis Recla: I noticed that there was some renewed interest in seismic analysis on the PSN email. If anyone wants to email me, so I can reply to them, I'll send out the PDF file (Adobe) of: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) prepared by the Laramie Analysis Facility Personnel (April 1960). I still have it on the computer here and can email it to anyone who is interested. Its about 1.5meg in size. The email address is: recla@.......... Regards, Dennis Recla Thanks Dennis, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: VBB-BB Tiltmeter info From: sean@........... Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 01:45:02 -0500 (CDT) Meredith and co., Re. info on the Very Broadband Beam-Balance Tiltmeter: the VBB-BBT: I'm glad you found the AGU/SSA abstract on my web site. The poster was presented at the April SSA meeting by Mark Meremonte of the USGS in Golden, since I was unable to attend the meeting. Unknown to me, Mark assembled the poster in the lobby of the USGS building so as to see what it looked like. Had I known about it, I would have emailed you to go have a look. Mark has scanned the poster pages, and I will find out if they can be posted on my site. He is an avid digital photographer, and somehow I would like to get him to document the details of the new instrument. I completed a 70 page preliminary technical report last fall. Unfortunately none of it is HTML compatible (the text is unix nroff, and the figures are from old versions of Mathcad and Autocad). The compact coil/magnet system was designed for the feedback coils of this beam balance tiltmeter; two are used, one at each end of the beam, to maintain an absolute symmetry of forces about the center of rotation. The abstract explains the principle of its operation. Since the VBB-BBT is insensitive to horizontal acceleration, which a horizontal seis senses, its output will only be the tilt noise of the pier environment, which a horizontal seis is also sensitive to, especially at long periods. So with identical tilt sensitivities, the signal from the VBB-BBT can be subtracted from that of the broadband horizontal seis, leaving only the true seismic signal of interest. The VBB-BBT signal must be digitized and processed identically to the broadband seismic signal. Regards, Sean-Thomas I will review the info on the bought magnet and the coil construction and post it tomorrow. I also have a box flexure design for the BBT that I also used to make a compact (10" long) horizontal broadband seis as a companion to a compact version of the the leaf spring vertical. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 02:28:11 -0500 I have an Anonymous FTP site the PSN list can use for now for uploading or sending files without bogging down Larrys server It is my personal web domain I will allow up to 400 meg of info at any one time and I will purge the data once a month it is www.1goss.com ftp using just that and use Anonymous to login. If you want to leave something permanent just ask it will prob be ok Larry if you want to mirror any files you have you can. Thanks Bryan S Goss __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VBB-BB Tiltmeter info From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 09:38:40 -0700 sean@........... wrote: > > > The abstract explains the principle of its operation. Since the VBB-BBT > is insensitive to horizontal acceleration, which a horizontal seis > senses, its output will only be the tilt noise of the pier environment, > which a horizontal seis is also sensitive to, especially at long periods. > So with identical tilt sensitivities, the signal from the VBB-BBT can > be subtracted from that of the broadband horizontal seis, leaving only > the true seismic signal of interest. The VBB-BBT signal must be digitized > and processed identically to the broadband seismic signal. I maybe presumptive on this, but it sounds like a seismic station would likely need two of the VBB-BB's, one for each direction orientation of a "companion" normal BB horizontal seismometer? This leads up to the question of whether your tiltmeter is indeed direction sensitive which I presume it is? This sounds like a very good "noise filter" which would give a much clearer seismic picture with alot of better implications for professional installations and researchers. No wonder Dr. Hutt with USGS wanted you to pursue it with vigor! > > > Regards, > Sean-Thomas > > I will review the info on the bought magnet and the coil construction > and post it tomorrow. I also have a box flexure design for the BBT that > I also used to make a compact (10" long) horizontal broadband seis as a > companion to a compact version of the the leaf spring vertical. That should be very interesting also; its always nice to read of leading edge material that inspires advancements; as you are the only real instrumentation authority (teacher)that PSN benefits from. Thanks, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Anonymous account did not work. From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 00:35:32 -0500 =20 I was unable to create an ftp account like I wanted, for people on the = psn list to submit files, manuals, and info, ECT, however I did create = an account that will work. 1. Go to the ftp program you use and type in www.1goss.com as the sight = you will be connecting to then use psn as username and psn as the = password when you get in you should see a folder called WEB put your = files, pictures or whatever in this folder. 2. To view your files with your web browser or to send a link to = someone such as the psn-List go here and click on your file http://www.1goss.com/users/psn If you have any questions just drop me a line at : = bgoss@..................  

I was=20 unable to create an ftp account like I wanted, for people on the psn = list to=20 submit files, manuals, and info, ECT, however I did create an account = that will=20 work.

 1. Go=20 to the ftp program you use and type in www.1goss.com as the sight you will be = connecting to then use psn as username and psn as the password when you = get in=20 you should see a folder called WEB put your files, pictures or = whatever=20 in this folder.

 2. To=20 view your files with your web browser or to send a link to someone such = as the=20 psn-List go here and click on your file

http://www.1goss.com/users/psn

If you have=20 any questions just drop me a line at : bgoss@..................

 

 Subject: the true life is out there From: "inanc karaman" inakara@......... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:55:34 +0300 -----Original Message----- From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM To: inakara@......... Subject: failure delivery Message from yahoo.com. Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox Giving up on 66.92.4.80. --- Original message follows. Return-Path: Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 X-Apparently-From: From: "inanc karaman" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: Mariotti Mauro mariottim@............ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:06:25 +0200 Ahahahahaha!!!!!!! At 18:55 07/05/2001 +0300, you wrote: > > >Return-Path: >Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 >X-Apparently-From: >From: "inanc karaman" >To: >Subject: >Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >Importance: Normal > >you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to >do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. >cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:14:16 -0400 So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? inanc karaman wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > To: inakara@......... > Subject: failure delivery > > Message from yahoo.com. > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > : > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > --- Original message follows. > > Return-Path: > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > X-Apparently-From: > From: "inanc karaman" > To: > Subject: > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > Importance: Normal > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: bc bruce@....... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:36:37 -0400 Just someone with WAY to much spare time. :) At 01:14 PM 05/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? > >inanc karaman wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > > To: inakara@......... > > Subject: failure delivery > > > > Message from yahoo.com. > > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > > > : > > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > > > --- Original message follows. > > > > Return-Path: > > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > > X-Apparently-From: > > From: "inanc karaman" > > To: > > Subject: > > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > > Message-ID: > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-9" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > > Importance: Normal > > > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- > >--------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- > * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * >Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. >internet bobsmith5@........ 9900 Lumlay Road >landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 14:27:25 -0400 sounds like he thinks all we do is sit around watching a seismo. As for seeing the "real life", I do allot of mountain biking. About 15 - 20 miles a day. would that be considered real life? -Travis >From: bc >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: the true life is out there >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:36:37 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC02B5C001440043252D864E082045B0; Mon May 07 10:50:22 2001 >Received: from oga.com (unverified [209.95.104.166]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id >for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 10:41:05 -0700 >Received: from bc.oga.com (h00a0cc3df6b5.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.40.72])by >oga.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03965for ; >Mon, 7 May 2001 10:37:01 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon May 07 10:50:49 2001 >Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010507133552.01de6780@.......> >X-Sender: bruce@....... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >In-Reply-To: <3AF6D7E8.699D8A88@........> >References: >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Just someone with WAY to much spare time. :) > >At 01:14 PM 05/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? >> >>inanc karaman wrote: >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... >> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM >> > To: inakara@......... >> > Subject: failure delivery >> > >> > Message from yahoo.com. >> > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). >> > >> > : >> > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. >> > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox >> > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. >> > >> > --- Original message follows. >> > >> > Return-Path: >> > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) >> > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 >> > X-Apparently-From: >> > From: "inanc karaman" >> > To: >> > Subject: >> > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 >> > Message-ID: >> > MIME-Version: 1.0 >> > Content-Type: text/plain; >> > charset="iso-8859-9" >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >> > Importance: Normal >> > >> > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing >>else to >> > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. >> > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. >> > >> > _________________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > _________________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> >>-- >> >>--------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- >> * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * >>Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. >>internet bobsmith5@........ 9900 Lumlay Road >>landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 >>__________________________________________________________ >> >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >>To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:45:50 EDT In a message dated 4/28/01 3:08:52 PM GMT Daylight Time, danieo@............ writes: << I hope you get the free seismometer. It sounds like a good deal to me. >> Hi Danie, Yes, I did manage to get one. In the end so many people wanted one that only 7 went to PSN members and I was one of them. The others went to universities and others. They are a very nice instrument so a lot of people wanted one. It remains to be seen how many people will get one going and recording earthquakes. I will try mine out standing in the yard before thinking about boreing a hole for it. I didn't go to the AAVSO meeting this past weekend due it costing a lot of $$ and nothing of interest to solar people was planned. I checked the list of those who registered and there were no Solar Division people listed. No use spending a lot of money to go to such a meeting. I built a seismograph here in Florida using your idea of balancing a mass on a ruler as a spring. I use a plasterers trowel with the handle removed. This gives a tempered spring 14-inches long and 4-inches wide. I mounted it vertical and bent it down so the free end is horizontal. A lead weight puts the 90 degree bend in it. It has a free period of about 1 3/4 seconds. It's damped with a sheet of copper between some radio shack flat magnets. I only recently managed to get Alan Jones's Amaseis downloaded and set up and working so have only been recording two days. I am recording on a dedicated computer, an old 486 PC that I bought for $90 at a hamfest. I had trouble with drafts creating big signals but just got that fixed today. I covered it with a cardboard box to keep the drafts out and it seems to work quite well. The acid test will be can I record an earthquake. I'm waiting for a big one to see what happens. Hope all is well with you and your health is improving and you are getting lots of Southern Hemisphere variables for Janet. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: interpreting seismograms From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:03:54 EDT Sean-Thomas, I would be grateful for any info. on these publications as I am sure would Kareem. Regards Ian Extinction is the last step! Sean-Thomas,

I would be grateful for any info. on these publications as I am sure would
Kareem.

Regards
Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:15:34 -0700 Greetings, With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any heavy equipment like my refrigerator. Thanks, -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:41:45 -0700 Hi Bob I had thought of that, but I was concerned about introducing a twist into the wire. I don't know whether the twist would accumulate over time, but the wire is so fine that any twisting force causes it to form loops, etc. Even at the fairly slow pace of 100 RPM, I did not want to take the chance of snarling up the wire, or worse yet, breaking it. By the way, the lathe I was using had a treadlebar off switch down near the floor. By stepping on it, the lathe stops very quickly. This is real handy if a snarl does start to form. I ended up using it a couple of times when things started to get out of hand. If anybody else is thinking of power winding coils, a fast off switch is a real useful feature to incorporate. Ron -----Original Message----- From: BOB BARNS [mailto:roybar@......... Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:32 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. Ron, Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by accelerating the spool. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:54:32 -1000 Capstone seems to have some very interesting products. Not sure what power capacity they start at. See http://www.capstoneturbine.com/distributor/index.asp Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: homebrew data logging program From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:26:58 -0700 Casey There are three (possibly more) strategies for servicing hardware periodically and performing housekeeping at the same time. The method you choose will depend on the capabilities of Quick Basic and/or what operating system capabilities can be accessed using Quick Basic. 1) Design all housekeeping operations so they are very short duration. If need be, break longer operations up and use a variable to record progress (e.g. 1 = step A completed, 2 = step B completed, etc.). The goal is to ensure that each housekeeping operation is rather shorter in duration than the 50 milliseconds between A/D readings. To read from the A/D you need to read the system's clock. Calculate the absolute value of the clock when you next want to take an A/D reading. When this value is reached, perform an A/D reading. Do not use a delta value since the last reading, as this will introduce drift and error. Whenever the program is not performing housekeeping, it sits in a loop checking the clock. The loop will also contain a check to see if any housekeeping operations need to be performed. Whenever a housekeeping operation, or step, is completed, check the clock. If housekeeping operations result from a check in the loop, the clock check at the end of the operation will be automatically done when the program returns to the loop. 2) If by some remote chance, Quick Basic supports "threads", you can avoid chopping up your housekeeping operations. In case you are not familiar with threads, a thread is like having a separate computer to execute code. If you use two threads, its like having two computers. The operating system transparently shares the real computer between the two threads. You can also use "processes", but threads are preferable for your application, because variables are shared between the two threads whereas they are not shared between two processes. One thread would sit in a tight loop watching the clock and performing A/D operations every 50 ms. The other thread would perform housekeeping operations. Because the operating system automatically switches execution between threads periodically, the second housekeeping thread can execute software that takes as long as it wants to perform operations. 3) PCs have a real time clock that I believe can be programmed to generate an interrupt periodically. When the interrupt occurs, an interrupt service routine is called. There is probably an operating system call to register a routine of yours as the interrupt service routine. Beware though, interrupt service routines are finicky. If the real time clock can only be programmed to generate one interrupt 50 ms. in the future, it can always be programmed for the next interrupt in the interrupt service routine. Again, avoid drift by taking the difference between the current time and the desired time to program the next interrupt. Once the interrupt routine is set up to run every 50 ms., the main program can perform housekeeping. If you are new to programming, I recommend method 1 to you. Its simple. Life gets progressively more complicated as you advance through methods 2 and 3. On the other hand, as the interval between A/D readings decreases (e.g. more than 20 samples/sec or more than one channel), methods 2 and 3 become increasingly necessary. There are nuances to all three of these methods that I have left out for the sake of brevity (hah!). If you get further along and you are running into trouble, drop me a line. Ron Westfall -----Original Message----- From: David russel [mailto:ogzax@......... Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 2:42 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: homebrew data logging program I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick Basic which is but a glorified three Channel oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to any thing. How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores impacting the sampling rate ? Is there an answer out there ? singed, anxiety's child Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 20:23:33 -0400 Ron, I wound a 12,000 turn coil using #36 (0.005") wire. This is about 7,300' of wire (3,000 ohms). The coil form had a core about 1.5" in diameter by about 1" wide. Plexiglass sides were attachted to the core. The winding depth turned out to be about 0.5". The wire was guided back and forth by my fingers (gloves). There was no problem with the twist accumulating. It took 10-15 mins. (est.) to wind which would be about 1,000 rpm. The lathe was started and stopped with its regular switch. Bob "Westfall, Ron" wrote: > > Hi Bob > > I had thought of that, but I was concerned about introducing a twist into > the wire. I don't know whether the twist would accumulate over time, but > the wire is so fine that any twisting force causes it to form loops, etc. > Even at the fairly slow pace of 100 RPM, I did not want to take the chance > of snarling up the wire, or worse yet, breaking it. > > By the way, the lathe I was using had a treadlebar off switch down near the > floor. By stepping on it, the lathe stops very quickly. This is real handy > if a snarl does start to form. I ended up using it a couple of times when > things started to get out of hand. If anybody else is thinking of power > winding coils, a fast off switch is a real useful feature to incorporate. > > Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOB BARNS [mailto:roybar@......... > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:32 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. > > Ron, > Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil > form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the > spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the > spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by > accelerating the spool. > Bob > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 20:30:11 -0600 Dear Sir: You have offended both the Tron God AND the Blottobear- Suggest you seek a constructive path for your bad karma.... DL inanc karaman wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > To: inakara@......... > Subject: failure delivery > > Message from yahoo.com. > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > : > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > --- Original message follows. > > Return-Path: > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > X-Apparently-From: > From: "inanc karaman" > To: > Subject: > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > Importance: Normal > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:39:41 -0700 Inanc has been removed from the PSN-L list. If you have any comments, as I did, please send it directly to him/her. -Larry > Dear Sir: > > You have offended both the Tron God AND the Blottobear- > Suggest you seek a constructive path for your bad karma.... > > DL > > inanc karaman wrote: [snip] __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:37 -0500 Hello Larry, I have a 1500 watt inverter / charger and 4 GC4 batteries which add up to 440 amp hours of power. I can run 4 computers / hubs / radios and what not for about 15 - 20 hours depending on what's on. It switches fast enough when the power goes out that the computers don't notice. (less than 30 milliseconds). No noise at all angel Monday, May 07, 2001, 5:15:34 PM, you wrote: LC> Greetings, LC> With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been LC> thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a LC> small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit LC> should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, LC> DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any LC> heavy equipment like my refrigerator. LC> Thanks, LC> -Larry Cochrane LC> Redwood City, PSN LC> __________________________________________________________ LC> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) LC> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with LC> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe LC> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:26:04 -0400 You can build a battery backup fairly simply. just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the wattage you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots of power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries from the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops when the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. -Travis >From: Angel Rodriguez >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: Larry Cochrane >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:37 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC0AECF00AC40043263D864E08206380; Mon May 07 20:11:18 2001 >Received: from chiriqui.com (unverified [200.46.20.3]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Mon, 7 May >2001 20:02:23 -0700 >Received: from 200.46.18.67 ([200.46.18.67])by chiriqui.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) >with ESMTP id WAA24463for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 22:59:20 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon May 07 20:11:42 2001 >X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.51) Educational >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Message-ID: <67450196908.20010507220037@............> >In-Reply-To: <0ac901c0d743$415d2d20$51045c42@sys1> >References: <0ac901c0d743$415d2d20$51045c42@sys1> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hello Larry, > >I have a 1500 watt inverter / charger and 4 GC4 batteries which add up >to 440 amp hours of power. I can run 4 computers / hubs / radios and >what not for about 15 - 20 hours depending on what's on. It switches fast >enough when the power >goes out that the computers don't notice. (less than 30 >milliseconds). > >No noise at all > >angel > > >Monday, May 07, 2001, 5:15:34 PM, you wrote: > >LC> Greetings, > >LC> With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been >LC> thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend >a >LC> small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt >unit >LC> should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, >hubs, >LC> DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any >LC> heavy equipment like my refrigerator. > >LC> Thanks, > >LC> -Larry Cochrane >LC> Redwood City, PSN > > >LC> __________________________________________________________ > >LC> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >LC> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >LC> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >LC> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >-- >Best regards, > >Angel > >www.volcanbaru.com > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: SW6079@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:06:23 EDT Hi Larry, Just adding my two-bits worth here.... If you want something really quiet,. Honda makes the quietest in my experience. They tend to be pricey though. Try garage sales etc. You will pay about 12 to 25 cents a watt for a Honda. Roughly 60 percent of that for a cheaper (and noisier) brand. All produce a good sine wave these days. Be sure to check the actual voltage before plugging anything in BTW, I have seen some as much as 20 percent high!! You can adjust the governor to change this easily in most cases. Good luck, Mike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SEISMOMETERS From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:27:27 EDT __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Ken Navarre kjn@....... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:36:02 -0700 > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a > small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit > should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, > DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any > heavy equipment like my refrigerator. Having had my share of generators in the 350 watt - 12 Kw range I think I'm a fairly good source of experience on this subject. For years I was on "a quest" for the quietest backup generator. For my purposes an inverter was not the sole answer. I use a 600 watt inverter in my motorhome for backup power during "quiet hours". As for generators I settled on the Honda line of generators, despite the bright red color which is kind'a hard to camouflage, due to the excellent sound baffling they use. For 90% of our energy use in the motorhome a small Honda EX-650 worked great. It was small, fairly light (60 lbs) and would power the satellite system, TV, charge the batteries, run the lights and the laptop seismic system for about 6 hours on less than 1/3 gallon of fuel. The Generac, Coleman, and crap sold at Costco should be reserved for contractors who are working on someone else's home and aren't concerned about ticking off our neighbors. They are fairly cheap but have zip for baffling. I've had them all and sold them well below cost just to get rid of them after running them for a short period of time. Due to the noise issue I even considered tossing them in the ocean as a public service! Honda entered the "ultra quite" market last year with their EU series generators. I bought one of the EU-1000i before they were cleared for use by the infinitely wise California Air Resources Board. The problem: the engine used in the EU series inverter/generator was the same as that used in the Honda gardening equip. But since the generator is stationary the engine was NOT approved for that use... Didn't matter that the emissions & fuel consumption was the best in the market... Do you suppose that CARB has anything to do with CAL ISO??? Anyway, the EU-1000i has a 12 volt alternator (if I recall correctly) that drives a 110 VAC inverter instead of a 110VAC generator. It simulates a full sine wave very well as evidenced by the way that it runs my computers & monitors on "field day". It weighs only 29 lbs with a full load of .6 gallons of gas. It is only 18"x10"x15" and is VERY quiet! Something like 55 db @ 25 feet. It does have one issue that the EX series didn't have. I could run a microwave oven for a short period of time with the 110 VAC generator. The inverter/generator is more sensitive to overloads and trips immediately whereas the generator would handle a brief overload. It has an "eco-mode" that turns the output of the generator to the minimum required by lowering the rpm of the engine. The inverter still outputs 110VAC even under the lower input voltage. It's way cool! Cost of the EU1000i (1000 watts rated - probably only about 800 in reality) is just under $700. It's a bit more pricey than the EX-650 and the straight 1000 watt (EX-1000) generator. I was by a shop last week and I see that Honda has released a 2kw model called (oddly enough) EU-2000i. It's just a tad heavier, bigger, nosier than the EU-1000i but is still very "neighborhood friendly". I also have the 3Kw EU-3000i to backup the home systems now that California has become one of the largest third world nations on the planet because of wonderful foresight on numerous people's parts (but that gets us off the topic of generators...). Basically, the EX- 650 is very quiet and has a full 650 watt ac generator. It is fuel efficient and luggable. The EX-1000 is a bit bigger and not quite as quiet but neither unit will piss off your neighbors even if you run it at night. The EU-1000i/2000i/3000i is a bit more expensive, a bit more fickle if you tend to overload it, and the quietest units around. I get 7 - 8 hours of runtime on 1/2 gallon of fuel with a 75% load on the 1000i. The EU-1000i is a nice unit. I bought mine off the Internet from Mayberry Sales in New Jersey and they paid the shipping and I had no CA tax. Check out www.mayberrys.com and compare prices with your local Honda dealer... The 3000i is 30% - 40% more expensive than than a comparably sized ac generator but it is MUCH quieter and a bit lighter - don't let someone walk off with it... Keep under lock & key or chained to a large dog! Ken Navarre __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 05:19:06 -0700 > Hi Larry, Just adding my two-bits worth here.... If you want something > really quiet,. Honda makes the quietest in my experience. They tend to be > pricey though. . You will pay about 12 to 25 cents a > watt for a Honda. All produce a good sine wave these days I have had 12 years experience running computers with generators here in the wilderness. The modified sine waves from Yamaha and Honda are "ok", but they do eventually , say 2 years tops, ruin the power supplies of the computers. Also note that a UPS inline will modify the problem of brownouts with generators. After years of replacing power supplies I switched to my solar which by that time had come enough online to handle the whole cabin. First it was much more quiet. Second, it never ruined a power supply. I still run my system on solar. It has its own solar. Three Arco panels and 2 100 amp hour deep cycle Johnson gel cells. And I don't have to worry about gasoline or carbon byproducts AND the property smells still like the pine forest it is instead of exhaust:-) Bob Shannon __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 08:26:40 -0400 Larry -- Back in '98 I built a whole-house diesel electric system (30kW). I run everything including two heat pumps, (with the aux strip heaters disabled). During my search I looked closely at the fuel type problem: 1. Gasoline - Forget it except for little portable units that you drain down after each run and fill with fresh gas each use. Gasoline quickly destabilizes and forms 'varnish' that clogs everything. Gasoline is also very dangerous to store. Max storage time; 6-12 months. 2. Diesel - Fuel oil will remain stable for up to 5 years with an additive to prevent wax formation. Relatively safe (the reason that Diesel power is preferred by all serious power boaters). 3. Propane - An ideal fuel. Taking a gasoline engine and converting to a propane carburetor, you give up about 10% of available power. Propane in a bottle gas tank will store practically indefinetly. 4. Natural Gas - Basically the same as Propane but has even lower available energy. You give up an additional 10% power over Propane. Often you can get connected to local gas mains and have a near infinite supply. Small generators in the 3,000W to 12,000W can be picked up for a song after the Y2K fiasco. Search the internet, goto Home Depot(I saw a gas unit at the local store recently), etc. Check out eBay. Search for Generac. INSTALL A PROPER TRANSFER SWITCH. You can kill a lineman before you even know anything is wrong. Feel free to email if you have further questions. Bob Smith Larry Cochrane wrote: > > Greetings, > > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a > small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit > should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, > DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any > heavy equipment like my refrigerator. > > Thanks, > > -Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: the true life is out there From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:02:32 -0500 Hello Mauro, I would like to get two more a/d cards and two amp cards from you. If possible I would like to get the cards assembled and tested but if you don't have the time, which I can understand, I would like to get all the parts to make the boards. I know from past experience that when a project has more than one or two parts that is anything out of the ordinary then I order from the USA and then one little part is on back order and the project is not possible. I as said earlier I will sending you as soon as I get it a "cash card" that you can use in any cash machine. You can then withdraw the amount you need directly from my account here in Panama. No waiting, no transfer fees at your end or my end. Please let me know. Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: the true life is out there From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:03:31 -0500 Hello Everyone, Sorry that last message went to everyone, it was meant for Mauro. angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Available Seismometer From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:07:34 -0400 Hi Gang....just thought I would let you know....there is a Seismometer = up for auction on ebay. (item # 1428527421). Ed.
Hi Gang....just thought I would let you = know....there is a Seismometer up for auction on ebay. (item #=20 1428527421).
 
Ed.
Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:37:28 EDT In a message dated 07/05/01, cochrane@.............. writes: > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Dear Larry, The solar/battery inverter units will start up instantaneously and there will be no brownout or supply failure, but the power that you can get is limited by your battery capacity. A motor generator is fine if you know when you are going to get problems and can start it in good time. Otherwise you get a supply failure for a couple of seconds while it starts on automatic. You need a reasonably good sine wave or an approximation to run switch mode power supplies for computers etc. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 07/05/01, cochrane@.............. writes:

With a ll of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been
thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator.


Dear Larry,

      The solar/battery inverter units will start up instantaneously and
there will be no brownout or supply failure, but the power that you can get
is limited by your battery capacity. A motor generator is fine if you know
when you are going to get problems and can start it in good time. Otherwise
you get a supply failure for a couple of seconds while it starts on
automatic. You need a reasonably good sine wave or an approximation to run
switch mode power supplies for computers etc.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT Hi Travis, I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V DC output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains came back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to convert it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on my Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't start. I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't start. How can I get it running again? Best regards, Cap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << You can build a battery backup fairly simply. just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the wattage you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots of power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries from the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops when the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. -Travis >> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:53:10 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > Hi Travis, > > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages or build a small PC board or maybe even a breadboard to do the job. and everything would have to be regulated very well. If you do get an inverter (IMHO the best way to go, you may find yourself eventually using it for other neat things like an Oshram maplight for night work on the keyboard!) ....Make sure the inverter is a quality brand such as Trace or Heliotrope. Both are excellent and the slight extra price makes all the difference. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:26:26 EDT In a message dated 08/05/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes: > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Hi there Cap, You can. You will need +5, -5, +12, -12 and maybe other voltages, some at several amps. Building your own PSU is quite a task. However, Keypower sell complete battery PSUs for 12, 24 & 48 V, see http://www.keypower.com/dcdc.htm The next question is what supplies does your VDU use? A good quality 'sine wave' 120 V inverter could be your most satisfactory choice. > Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on > my > Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't > start. > I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't > start. How can I get it running again? Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. Do you have any 'prickers' for kerosene stoves / old vapourisers? However, before you do this, have you checked the gap on your spark plug and that it does have an energetic spark when you pull the starter cord? If the engine does have a contact breaker, oxidised contacts over winter are a likely problem (some engines don't use them). Cleaning with a 'points file' is satisfactory, if you can get at the points. You sometimes have to take the flywheel off to get at them... Gives the service agencies something to do. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 08/05/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes:

I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system.
What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V
AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power,
how can I just run it from the 12V batteries?


Hi there Cap,

      You can. You will need +5, -5, +12, -12 and maybe other voltages, some
at several amps. Building your own PSU is quite a task. However, Keypower
sell complete battery PSUs for 12, 24 & 48 V, see
http://www.keypower.com/dcdc.htm

      The next question is what supplies does your VDU use? A good quality
'sine wave' 120 V inverter could be your most satisfactory choice.

Also another question, does anybody know how I can clea n the carburetor on
my
Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't
start.
I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't
start. How can I get it running again?

      Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge
and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean
Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber
components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. Do you
have any 'prickers' for kerosene stoves / old vapourisers? However, before
you do this, have you checked the gap on your spark plug and that it does
have an energetic spark when you pull the starter cord? If the engine does
have a contact breaker, oxidised contacts over winter are a likely problem
(some engines don't use them). Cleaning with a 'points file' is satisfactory,
if you can get at the points. You sometimes have to take the flywheel off to
get at them... Gives the service agencies something to do.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: SEISMOMETERS From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:47:41 EDT huh? huh? Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:58:47 EDT In a message dated 05/08/2001 12:00:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, earth@........... writes: << Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages >> Hi Bob, If I went into my computer and measured the voltage where it comes out of the power supply, would this be the voltage I would need to run from my batteries? If this turned out to be more than 12 Volts could I then hook, say four deep charge marine batteries in series-parallel to make a 24 volt battery power supply. Then suppose the computer needed say 15 volts. Could I not then use a voltage regulator chip to reduce the 24 Volts to 15 Volts or whatever? Assuming this could be done I could then use two automatic shut down 12-Volt battery chargers, one on each pair of the four above, to accomplish my purpose which is to have a system totally immune to California-type blackouts? I like the idea of not being dependent on relays or stuff like that to switch over when the power grid fails. Thanks, Bob, for your helpful ideas, especially how to get my Honda generator going again. I will try your system and let you know how I make out. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 11:15:18 -0700 Hi Bryan -- As of last night, your seismometer is here in San Diego. They look nice, but can't tell at all what they're like inside. I also got one test set / controller, to be passed around to those who want to use it. I'm not sure what all it does, but looking at the switches, it is apparently used to lock and unlock the seismometer masses, to level them, do calibration, and verify operation. More than that, I really don't know as there are no manuals yet. I think I'll hang on to the test set / controller until the manual comes and I am able to make a bit more sense out of it. There is a packing outfit (Chandler Packaging) that my company uses, and I will take the seismometer today and get a quote. I'll let you know what they say. I don't have much of a feel for what kind or how much shock-absorbing packing they should use -- I don't know what kind of handling to expect from shipping companies, and I don't know how much the seismometers will stand. I'll ask the packaging company for recommendations. Do you have a preference on a shipper? Do you want air (quicker) or ground (cheaper)? I'll ask the packing company if they have a recommendation, but otherwise I'll look at what other people on the PSN list have suggested. As soon as these things are nailed down, I should be able to get it to the packager within a day. Dr. Hutt didn't have any manuals ready when I was there. He said he would mail one out to me as soon as he gets some printed. He seemed pretty busy, so I'd guess it may be a week or two. Best regards, Karl At 01:05 AM 5/4/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Here is my shipping address: > > Bryan S.Goss > 73 Cr 119 > Corinth MS 38834 > >Phone 1-662-287-5341 > > >I can send you a money order for shipping cost and your time, gas or >whatever. Please let me know what to send you and to what address. Thanks >for your time I look forward to this project :> PS I would like to >purchase a copy of the manual as well. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Karl Cunningham >To: >Cc: >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:00 PM >Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers > > > > Hi all -- > > > > I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the > > bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this > > writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to > > seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting > > seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. > > Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list > > via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they > > not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is > > referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I > > apologize, but please let me know ASAP. > > > > Rank Qty Name > > 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez > > 9 3 Meredith Lamb > > 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend > > 18 2 Casper Hossfield > > 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend > > 20 1 Bryan Goss > > 21 1 Charles Patton > > 24 1 Jack Ivey > > 27 1 Tony Potenzo > > > > To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no > > shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of > > June. See his email at the bottom of this message. > > > > In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need > > to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of > > him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will > > pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my > > understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick > > up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, >myself, > > Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles > > and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is > > ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone > > has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. > > > > When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not > > be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I > > will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. > > > > I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make > > copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. > > > > For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is >disappointment > > and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who > > worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, > > pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts > > to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. > > > > Karl > > > > > > The email from Dr. Hutt follows: > > > > >>Karl, > > >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email > > >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now >number > > >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of > > >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. > > >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the > > >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. > > >> > > >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from > > >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my > > >>overall list of everybody. > > >> > > >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At > > >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more > > >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list >actually > > >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, > > >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! > > >> > > >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 > > >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without > > >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 > > >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in > > >>your station wagon due to the weight. > > >> > > >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper > > >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with > > >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. > > >>Regards, > > >>Bob Hutt > > >> > > >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez > > >>9. meredith lamb > > >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) > > >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) > > >>18. Casper Hossfield > > >>24. Jack Ivey > > >>20. Bryan Goss > > >>21. Charles Patton > > >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the > > >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it >originally > > >>came in just before Raul's request. > > >>27. Tony Potenzo > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:42:23 -0500 Hello CapAAVSO, I have some 12v AT computer power supplies. I now you can also get ATX. I don't have the ;URL but if you want it I can try to find it. angel Tuesday, May 08, 2001, 10:24:31 AM, you wrote: Cac> Hi Travis, Cac> I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. Cac> What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V Cac> AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, Cac> how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:59:12 EDT In a message dated 05/08/2001 1:32:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. >> Thanks Chris, I took the carburetor apart last fall after putting in a new spark plug and making sure it produced a spark when I pulled the start rope. The carburetor parts are home on the bench in a small pan. I am now in Florida for the winter but will fly home on 16 May and try your idea using paintbrush cleaner and some # 5 piano wire I have which is 0.15 mm diameter. I can probably get it clean enough with the piano wire so that Bob Shannon's system of priming with gas in the spark plug hole will get it running again. Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter. This is easier than priming it with gas in the spark plug hole and the Starting Fluid is readily available at auto parts stores. People like me who never owned a new car and drive old ~$300 secondhand pickup trucks (disposable transportation:-) always have a can of starting fluid in the tool box. If it won't start on either it ain't gonna go!! Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:35:29 -0700 Cap -- In a computer, the majority of the power consumed is at 5 volts. As an indication, a 200W AT power supply I have has the following output rating: +12V 8A -12V 0.5A +5V 23A -5V 0.5A Dropping a 12-volt battery to 5 volts with a linear regulator feeding 10 amps would dissipate 70 watts in the regulator alone -- more than what's required to power the entire computer. A switching supply is necessary to gain any savings over an inverter. And the 12-volt nominal battery voltage would probably have to be regulated before feeding it to the computer's 12-volt line. All in all, this is no small task unless you're in the power supply business. Regards, Karl At 11:24 AM 5/8/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations / standby power From: "Al Allworth" allworth@.............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:39:59 -0700 I think the easiest way to get standby power is to buy a UPS unit and modify it. Remove the battery(s) and put a connector on the back for external battery. Some are 12 volt and the larger ones need 24 volts. You might need to add additional cooling fans inside where the batteries were for continuous operation. Some of the UPS units I have used got pretty hot by the time the batteries ran out and they were evidently designed so that they ran out of power just before they melted down. A UPS would take care of the switchover when the power goes off. I have a 250 watt UPS that I put Binding Posts on the back so I can add more battery capacity when needed. It uses 12 volts. I also have a 650 watt UPS that uses 24 volts.The smaller one is sine wave and has an internal fan and thermal protection. The larger one has NO fan and would need one for continuous operation. It does have a thermal cutout which would shut it down when it gets too hot. Both of them have light bar meters to monitor the battery voltage. Large RV batteries rated for deep cycle are reasonably priced and can be found at places like Walmart __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:37:28 -0400 Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:21:20 -0400 More than 12VDC? In a computer? What have you got for a computer? -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of bobshannon.org Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:53 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > Hi Travis, > > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages or build a small PC board or maybe even a breadboard to do the job. and everything would have to be regulated very well. If you do get an inverter (IMHO the best way to go, you may find yourself eventually using it for other neat things like an Oshram maplight for night work on the keyboard!) ....Make sure the inverter is a quality brand such as Trace or Heliotrope. Both are excellent and the slight extra price makes all the difference. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:24:13 -0400 > Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter this is one of the main causes of varnish. Just thought I would let you know. -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of CapAAVSO@....... Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:59 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Generator recommendations In a message dated 05/08/2001 1:32:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. >> Thanks Chris, I took the carburetor apart last fall after putting in a new spark plug and making sure it produced a spark when I pulled the start rope. The carburetor parts are home on the bench in a small pan. I am now in Florida for the winter but will fly home on 16 May and try your idea using paintbrush cleaner and some # 5 piano wire I have which is 0.15 mm diameter. I can probably get it clean enough with the piano wire so that Bob Shannon's system of priming with gas in the spark plug hole will get it running again. Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter. This is easier than priming it with gas in the spark plug hole and the Starting Fluid is readily available at auto parts stores. People like me who never owned a new car and drive old ~$300 secondhand pickup trucks (disposable transportation:-) always have a can of starting fluid in the tool box. If it won't start on either it ain't gonna go!! Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:54:02 EDT In a message dated 5/8/01 11:44:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << Re: the direct battery powered computer: ............ A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. >> Hi Karl and Travis, What do you think of this idea: 1) buy three 12 volt deep charge RV-marine batteries. 2) Cut into the middle of the top of one battery to find the lead crossover terminal that connects the six 2.1 V individual cells in series (wear eye protection in case you accidentally short something out and make fireworks). Test the terminal you uncovered with a voltmeter to make sure there is 6.3 V to either of the two normal terminals of the battery. If it is the right crossover solder a heavy copper wire to it to make it into a center tapped 12-volt battery that is a dual +6.3 V -6.3 V power supply. Hook a 5V voltage regulator to each 6.3 volt leg and now you have the regulated +5V and -5V required to run the computer The center tap should go to neutral on the computer. 3) Connect the other two 12V batteries in series and their center to neutral on the computer. Put a 12V regulator on each 12.6 V (when fully charged) battery and you have the plus 12V and minus 12V regulated power required by the computer. 4) Connect three battery chargers, one to each 12V battery. These should be the type that automatically shut down so they don't overcharge the batteries. I have one from Sears that puts out 5-Amps on the high setting. 5) Hook a 12V DC/120V AC inverter to any one of the three 12V batteries to run your monitor and seismo. Now if the California Independent System Operator (ISO), shuts your power grid down your computer and seismo won't even know about it and you won't miss that big one. (Murphy's law almost guarantees this will happen;-). Of course you will need a gasoline or propane powered generator if the ISO turns you off for long stretches of time. If you are optimistic about California's electrical power problem being solved in the near future don't bother getting the generator :-). I live in a rural farm county in New Jersey but our power grid gets overloaded too. Another bigger problem we have here is ice storms and big wind storms that blow trees down across the power lines and leave us without power sometimes for days until the work crews get things fixed again. I live on top of a mountain and last summer lightning zapped my modem and also the modem in my fax machine despite the power line surge protectors that supposedly also protected the phone lines (read the fine print on these things and you will see that lighting surges are the one thing they don't guarantee to protect you from! ). It cost me ~$150 to have new modems installed and if had built the independent battery system described above I would have saved the modems (if I had remembered to disconnect the phone lines). I welcome your thoughts and comments on the above. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:02:14 -0700 Travis, All of the regulators in the schematic have the same part number. How do the regulators "know" you want +5 or + 12 volts out?? Cheers, Erich -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:11:12 -0700 Computer power supplies also have a "good power" output lead which tells the processor that AC power has been applied to the power supply. I've never checked the lead to see if it's AC, DC or what voltage, but without this input, a DC only system may not work. Cheers, Erich Kern -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you