Subject: Re: GEOPHONES From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 11:31:17 -0700 Geospace has changed their legal name and some idiot changed the web site to http://www.geospacelp.com/ The proper approach would have been to maintain the old site with a referral to the new address for perhaps a year or at least until the search engines picked up the new URL. Doug ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > > Hi there, > > My site reference for Geospace Geophones > http://www.geospacecorp.com/ > does not seem to work any longer. Can anyone give me a reference for > these > geophones please? > > Chris Chapman -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Testing geophones From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:30:53 EDT I came across the following reference to testing the damping of geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it? http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and only then lengthen the period? There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and a range of other info. Regards, Chris Chapman      I came across the following reference to testing the damping of
geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it?
      http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm
      I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of
seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and
only then lengthen the period?

      There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml
and a range of other info.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:01:16 -0700 Hi Larry -- I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay no matter what I enter in the "length" field. Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default value. Wierd! I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that Friday off. Karl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 02:38:51 -0700 Hi Karl, Attached is a new winqk32.exe that should fix the replay bug. I discovered it myself a few days ago. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Cunningham" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting > Hi Larry -- > > I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the > replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change > the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. > > For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the > default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I > wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and > got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, > changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 > minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay > no matter what I enter in the "length" field. > > Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" > field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even > if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default > value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default > value. Wierd! > > > I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would > really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that > Friday off. > > Karl > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Acouple linear diamagnetic designs for potential tiltmeter/seismometer From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:49:01 -0800 Hi all, Now have another web page on diamagnetic levitation for those interested in the tiltmeter/seismometer aspect of using such. The page only shows the basic rod levitation and there is only one picture related to eddy current damping. Its anticipated that with the addition of a aluminum foil "flag" atop the rod and in the middle, that combined with a source of light, the motion can be sensed and recorded. Here the graphite is "common" high grade 1/8" diameter spectrographic rods that are diamagnetic and utilized with various magnets. For prior web site readers, the Martin Simon levitation stand graphite is not used. http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page017.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple more geomagnetic solar flare graphs From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 17:08:04 -0800 Hi all, Also put up additions to the prior March 31st solar flare and/or interplanetary shock wave as it hit earth and affected my diamagnetic instrument. I show April 4th and April 7th additions on the same web page. Neither of these are as dramatic as the March 31st result. See: http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page061.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Changes to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:02:21 -0700 Hi all, Last night I accidentally sent out an attachment to the list. Sorry if you received it. After I discovered what I done I removed the file so most of you didn't get it. Today I make some changes to the list server to prevent this from happening again. First I make a changed that will reject any messages, with or without an attachment, that is larger then 50,000 bytes. Next I wrote a program that tests message sent to this list for any attachments. If there is one, the message is rejected. If your message is rejected you should get an error message back. Please let me know if this filtering causes any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: GEOPHONES/BURROWING ANIMALS From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:19:55 EDT From: "Clive A Marks" > I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the > behaviour of large burrowing mammals. Is it worth investigating the > ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement > within burrows if they are placed in close proximity? Any advice would > be appreciated! Dear Clive Marks, Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now at http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter / detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals, some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals. Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really competent in electronics. You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size. You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals (other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe. I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a brief EMail in reply, please. Regards, Chris Chapman From: "Clive A Marks"
> I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the
> behaviour of large burrowing mammals.  Is it worth investigating the
> ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement
> within burrows if they are placed in close proximity?  Any advice would
> be appreciated!

Dear Clive Marks,

     Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal
species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really
too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather
quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up
ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual
burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair
for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend
to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see
www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an
amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now
at  http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at
http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html

      Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter /
detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro
reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be
archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder
beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range
will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals,
some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals.
Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or
to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are
available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may
penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very
expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really
competent in electronics.

      You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red
illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably
priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a
lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video
recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have
used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size.

     You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want
from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals
(other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the
environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe.

     I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a
brief EMail in reply, please.

     Regards,

     Chris Chapman Subject: FW: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:28:33 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cochrane [mailto:cochrane@............... Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:45 PM To: Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo Subject: Re: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" Hi Kareem, I see that your message to the PSN-L list was rejected. If you didn't attach anything try again so I can see what's going on. I just made a change to the attachment blocker code so I can debug the problem. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" > There was an error processing a message to the PSN-L list. > Error Type: No attachments allowed in email messages to PSN-L. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:37:06 -0700 Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:24:38 -0700 Greetings, I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or doesn't work with your board. The new release can be downloaded here: http://www.seismicnet.com/sdrdocs/sdr.htm. I have also update the documentation (the part I hate the most!) reflecting the new changes to the program. Since I have made some changes to SDR, mostly on how it handles the interrupt from the A/D card and memory management, I'm calling this version 4.0b. The changes I made allow SDR to record up to 8 channels at 100 samples per second (or less) or up to 4 channels at 200 SPS. Before SDR would only use up to 6 of the 8 channels on the A/D card and it didn't have the 200 SPS mode. Also new with this release are two new menu items controlling the new STA/LTA triggering. I added a LTA Minimum field that controls how low the LTA (Long Term Average) number can go. This controls the overall trigger sensitivity for the channel. The larger the number the larger the event (or noise) will have to be to trigger the channel. I also added a field that controls how long the channel stays in the pre-trigger condition. The default is 10 seconds. Before upgrading, replay and extract any event files. The new version can not use the old daily record files. New ones will be created when you run the new SDR release. As always let me know if you run into any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: winquake expiration From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 21:24:59 -0700 Don, My beta releases have timeouts in them. You will need to upgrade to the next beta release of WinQuake. I will be releasing it later tonight or tomorrow. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Wheeler" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: winquake > Larry, > > Have been using the upgraded version of Winquake and am now getting an > expiration message in XX days. I checked the registration and it tells > me it is registered. > > Is this normal or do I need to purchase the upgrade? > > Thanks, > > Don Wheeler > Carroll High School > Monroe, Louisiana > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:59:49

Larry

I can't seem to get the DOS mode (ctrl-D) to work on the new SDR.

Wayne



 

>Greetings,
>
>I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D
>card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user
>using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or
>doesn't work with your board.
>
Larry
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www .hotmail.com.

Subject: RE: PSN Meeting - cancel?--What about May 12th? From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:43:12 -0700 I agree Larry and Dick we need a daytime Saturday date and time. Why don't we set a data in May and see how many people will attend. I'll offer my home in Aptos for the meeting. Saturday May 12th at 10:30AM. For reference, it takes 1:30 min to travel to Aptos from downtown San Francisco. I live five minutes from the beach, which some might find convenient, or for the brave-hearted, some might want to hike/bike up to the Loma Prieta Epicenter site in the Forest of Niseme Marks State Park. The trail head is down the street from my house in the Village. Take a look at http://www.aptoschamber.com/tourism/map.html to get a better idea about the area. I'll even offer BBQ burgers and soda on the sundeck following the meeting. Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 4:37 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:24:38 -0700 Kareem and PSN'ers, Your message contains an attachment called winmail.dat. You need to disable this "option" in your email program. If you are using one of Microsoft's mailers please read this web page: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q138/0/53.asp -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:47 AM > Larry, > > It doesn't seem to work; I can't post to the PSN. > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:45:12 -0700 test (pl text) Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: anyone? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:00:44 -0700 Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:23:17 -0700 I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June 16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, however, alternative suggestions are welcome. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: is anyone there? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:58:50 -0700 Hi Larry, Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently and so I'm a little concerned that I'm missing messages. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: is anyone there? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:08:41 EDT In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes: > Hi Larry, > Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails > Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes:

Hi Lar ry,
Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails
a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier


      Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone!
      Regards, Chris Chapman Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:09 -0700 Hi Steve -- I would like to attend, and June 16 sounds fine. Any Saturday is fine with me, and much better than a weekday. I appreciate your generous offer to host the meeting at your house. Karl At 05:23 PM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the >latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June >16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new >date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, >however, alternative suggestions are welcome. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Email failed From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:00:22 -0700 Nick and PSN'ers, I saw in my mail server's log file that some email messages from you were rejected. I use several real-time spam blocking services to block spam from getting to any account on my server. It appears that the server you used is on the blocking list. Here's the log info: ---- SMTPRA log entry made at 04/11/2001 08:37:34 SMTP command failed when talking to 207.69.200.148: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=598 <<< 550 5.7.1 This system is configured to reject mail from 207.69.200.148 (Host blacklisted - see http://maps.vix.com/rbl/) The ip address above comes back to blount.mail.mindspring.net. I believe Mindspring bought out Netcom. Since you have an account on Yahoo you will need to use it to send messages to me and the list until they are removed from the blocking list. I would complain to your ISP about it since more and more servers are using the blocking services. Lately mindspring.net has been a large source of spam so I'm glad they were placed on the blocking list. I need to use the blocking lists because without them I get over 20 spam emails each day. I still get 5 to 6 each day since spammers keep using new systems that aren't on the blocking list. I must be on every spammers mailing list. This happened because I posted a few messages to newsgroups with my correct email address when I first got on the Internet. My only other option is to change my email address. For more information about spam blocking see www.orbs.org and http://maps.vix.com/rbl/. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas A Caporossi" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Email failed > Hi Larry: > Your Email ID: Cochrane@.............. is not working > for me. I send a > couple of messages to you and they got bounced back. > Is the problem at my end? > They DID NOT have an attachment to them. They were > quiet small about 2k. > > Nick > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: anyone? PS1 PS2 From: Arie Verveer ajbv@............ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:22:20 +0800 Hi Kareem, A friend of mine has the PS1 and PS2 model's, and both of these devices work well. The only short coming, is they rely on your PC or notebook to keep time, and as we all know that will require some external programs. The other point, and I'm not sure on this, is the their is no conversion program from the PSx output to a compatible "winquake" format. If the format is known it would be possible to write a conversion program. Other than those to point the units work well for local quakes. I believe one unit is equipped with a (X,Y,Z) 4.5 Hz geophone. This makes the device useful for local quake detection. But remember local ground noise can be a problem. Cheers Arie > > Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New WinQuake Release From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:16:05 -0700 Greetings, I released a new version of WinQuake today. You can down load the beta release here: http://www.seismicnet.com/software.html Here's what's new in this release: I fixed a bug in how WQ saves data in the new PSN format. The spec says to save two CRC (a way of checking the validity of data) bytes at the end of the file even if the CRC is not calculated. SDR, while not calculating the CRC, did save the two bytes at the end of the file and set the NO_CRC flag in the header section. When WQ updated the file, it would set the CRC flag but not write out the two bytes at the end of the file. Since older beta release did use the CRC bytes it wasn't a problem. This release calculates and saves the CRC bytes when saving the event file and if the NO_CRC flag is clear, it will test the CRC when reading in an event file. If the calculated CRC does not match the CRC bytes in the file you will get an error message. Since people are sending in event files in the new format I created a simple program to check all of the event files on my system to see if they are two bytes short. If an event file was short the program would append two bytes to the end of the file. If you are sending in event files in the new format please upgrade to this release before sending anymore in. This release has a new dialog box that displays the RMS (Root Means Square), minimum, maximum and mean of the viewed data. This dialog box can be opened by using the Calculate and RMS / Max / Min menu items. Thanks it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: help ? From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:35:55 -0400 An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6=20 And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
An  amateur question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or lower = better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Re: help ? From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:50:18 -0500 Hello JORD, I presently run my X at 25 and the Y depends on the channel. I have run the X at various different setting. It's only what you like that matters. Friday, April 13, 2001, 3:35:55 PM, you wrote: J> An amateur question J> Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 J> And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 J> Thank You J> Randy.........Toronto... -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: John Lahr's diamagnetic levitated graphite video From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:15:44 -0700 Hi all, On John Lahr's web site is acouple pictures of his spectroscopic graphite rod levitating over a unique magnet setup. Especially good is a video of the graphite rod freely oscillating back and forth over the magnets and within its channel. Its a 1.2mb MPEG download, which will play on the Microsoft Windows Media Player, and with that programs controls, it can be replayed of course. Its unknown whether it will play the video with other browsers? See: http://lahr.org/john-jan/physics/maglev/glev/ This particular basic type layout was found by David Lamb around January 2001; and it seems to have a real good potential for use as a tiltmeter/seismometer with development of a light sensor circuit, and the application of a aluminum damping medium with a "flag" to discern motion. Currently the magnets are not available per Forcefield, but its hoped that a quanity become available ~ June/July 2001. The spectroscopic rods used are likely old stock (circa 1960's-1970's), but its highly likely that there are sources of similar diamagnetic (or better or worse) 1/8" spectroscopic rods available. One real advantage with this graphite is that its cost is greatly lower than with some other special graphite used in levitation. There are plus's and minus's possible with this type of layout. Probably most evident is that the levitation assembly is itself most of the usual "boom, mast, mass and etc", involved in construction. When leveled and the rod length adjusted, its possible to get periods of from ~ 1 sec up to ~ 4 seconds. One negative is that with the "mass" being lightweight, it will very likely have a unknown amount of Brownian noise associated with it. Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help ? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:12 -0700 Randy, The X and Y scales are only for the display. They do not effect the data = saved to disk or event files produced when you replay the data or when = SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would have an X scale = value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a few hours worth of = time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the number of lines = per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale number = will have to be so the lines don't overlap. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JORD=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: help ? An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 = And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
Randy,
 
The X and Y scales are only for the = display. They=20 do not effect the data saved to disk or event files produced when you = replay the=20 data or when SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would = have=20 an X scale value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a = few=20 hours worth of time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the = number of=20 lines per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale = number will=20 have to be so the lines don't overlap.
 
-Larry Cochrane
Redwood City, PSN 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JORD
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 = 1:35=20 PM
Subject: help ?

An  amateur = question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or = lower=20 better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Testing of Geophones From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:56:52

Hello all

Is there any way of checking the operating specifications of a geophone? I own a Mar k Products geophone with no specs and would like to check it to know its voltage output.

Thanks,
Wayne


Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at htt p://www.hotmail.com.

Subject: test From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:57:18 -0700 test Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: CRC-16 Algorithm From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 10:52:46 -0700 Michael, I updated the STALTA.ZIP file with the source code I use to generate the CRC16. You can download it here ftp://www.seismicnet.com/software/stalta.zip. -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Roseberry" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: CRC-16 Algorithm > Larry: > > Seems I remember that there are a handfull of different algorithms used > for caculating a 16-bit CRC value. The basic theme is the same -- a > feedback shift register done in software -- but the bit locations that > are fedback (cycled) differ from one algorithm to another (in fact, I > remember the names of the different CRC-16 algorithms took their names > from the list of bit locations used for feedback). > > I was wondering if you have published the details (such as which bits > are feedback from the 16-bit word) of the CRC-16 algorithm you chose to > incorporate in your software? If so, where can I learn of it. > > Thank you, > Michael J. Roseberry > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometers for sale From: "Scott Sona Snibbe" scott@.......... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:00:23 -0700 Hi folks, I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale, which I thought your community = might like to know about. I listed them on ebay in the hopes of getting = these sensors to someone who can really use them: Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230529926 Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230531902 =20 Best Wishes, scott
Hi folks,
 
I have 2 seismometer/geophones for = sale, which I=20 thought your community might like to know about. I listed them on ebay = in the=20 hopes of getting these sensors to someone who can really use = them:
 
Mark Products Seismometer Seismic = Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 531902

 
Best=20 Wishes,
scott
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: seismometers for sale From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:13:24 EDT In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes: > I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes > of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them: > > Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230529926 > > Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230531902 Dear Scott, Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes:

I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes
of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them:

Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230531902


Dear Scott,

      Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which
model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: seismic coda From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:11:06 -0400 --From Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447 For minutes after the violent shaking of an earthquake, the ground continues to rock imperceptibly. Seismologists are unclear about the cause of this so-called seismic coda, but the 9 April PRL presents new evidence that may resolve the question. While some seismologists assume that the coda comes from waves that scatter only once before reaching the surface, the authors found evidence that the vibrations reflect many times within the Earth before being detected. They used an array of seismometers that could distinguish several types of shaking and showed that energy is divided equally among them, as theory predicts for multiply scattered waves. (R. Hennino et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447. Link to the paper: http://publish.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v86/p3447/ COMPLETE Focus story at http://focus.aps.org/v7/st17.html) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometer for kids? From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:54:04 -0400 Perhaps someone on this list can help this desperate mom. I do not have any expertise in this area. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: A child's quick and easy to build seismometer request > Good Morning, > > I am the Mother of a ten year old boy who was building a seismometer for > a science fair project. > > We are not getting the results we expected. > > We are going out of town and have only two days to finish. Do you have > any suggestions for an easy and quick to build seismometer with materials > from the local hardware store? > > I deeply appreciate your assistance. > > Thanks, Desperate Mom > Ciao, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:30 -0700 Dear Desperate Mom, Before giving advice, one needs to know some details. In your post to David Saum, which was forwarded to the PSN list, You said; "we are not getting the results we expected" As an intelligent and by nature, helpful person (but we don't suffer fools easily), we would like to know: (1) What did you expect going into the project? Please be specific. (2) What results are you getting? (3) What would you like to change? (4) Is it possible you did not allow enough time to achieve acceptable results? Sometimes these things take weeks. This is not an appliance you turn on and it gives you a number. This is a serious albeit amateur endeavor which needs tender loving care plus a feel for what works and what's crap. If it was a professional project it'd cost 10 to 100 grand in real money. When it's a serious amateur project, you pay for results in time and effort rather than cold cash. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: science fair seis From: sean@........... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:36:00 -0500 (CDT) Hi seismometer Mom, I agree with Erich's comments. I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars (a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get "results". My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the "how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in copying is evident). So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including wave propagation and quake location without having to build a seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student (parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student (parent), which often blindly copy some article. I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make adjustments or add something that does make it work). The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. A good high school project will take about a year, with the last half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly large earthquake to record on it. But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. Regards, Sean-Thomas Morrissey St. Louis University. PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:04:13 -0700 This was EXCELLENT. Thank you very much for this insight into what a science fair judge is looking for. Although my children are already grown, I will give this to the parents of my 7-year-old grandson, so that it can be used as a guide! Once again, thank you, "JD" Cooley At 03:36 PM 4/17/01 , Sean-Thomas Morrissey wrote: >Hi seismometer Mom, > >I agree with Erich's comments. > >I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen >many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" >providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars >(a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers >crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get >"results". > >My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit >statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the >"how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can >be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an >electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be >no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, >no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question >is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". > >Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually >the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is >demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, >in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the >logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have >that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in >copying is evident). > >So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the >core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of >the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative >motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground >is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) >from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background >poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a >poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including >wave propagation and quake location without having to build a >seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the >epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by >using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. > >A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built >that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the >practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and >then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then >becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student >(parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the >display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student >(parent), which often blindly copy some article. > >I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with >brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached >that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student >got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet >out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass >was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with >time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking >was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. > >However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are >faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging >on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting >on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a >nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an >attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the >data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display >that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make >adjustments or add something that does make it work). > >The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. >A good high school project will take about a year, with the last >half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. >Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of >at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly >large earthquake to record on it. > >But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary >electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the >midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a >high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. > >And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. > >Regards, >Sean-Thomas Morrissey >St. Louis University. > >PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern >electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) >nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: > >http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html > >stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report >stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings >stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: No Expertise?? From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:52:24 -0700 David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: School Seismograph Project From: Jim ODonnell jimo17@........ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:16:14 -0700 To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & other PSN Members: Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my Alma Mater) at- http://www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ on home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph FAQ Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a seismometer in the classroom. Here is a sampling MichSeis Princeton Earth Physics Project and Larry Braile of Purdue has written several lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom Handheld Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim) Educational Seismograph AS-1 Seismograph Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the principles of seismometer operation. The Seismometer Demo Applet Good luck! Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I and others are Beta testing. The geophone system sells for ~$125 and I have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's. You can see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for a school project yet!!!!!.....Jim Jim O'Donnell Registered Geologist in California , 1970 Registered Geophysicist in California , 1974 UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member Geosciences Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety Council
To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & = other=20 PSN Members:
 
Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my= Alma=20 Mater) at-
http://= www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html
and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ = on=20 home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph = FAQ=20

Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a = seismometer=20 in the classroom. Here is a sampling=20

         MichSeis=20

and Larry Braile of Purdue has written = several=20 lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom
  • = Handheld=20 Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim)
  • = Educational=20 Seismograph=20
  • AS-1=20 Seismograph

Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the = principles=20 of seismometer operation.=20

Good luck!

Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I= and=20 others are Beta testing.  The geophone system sells for ~$125 and= I=20 have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's.  You = can=20 see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ =20 This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for= a=20 school project yet!!!!!.....Jim

<= /A>Jim=20 O'Donnell
Registered Geologist in California , 1970
Registered=20 Geophysicist in California , 1974
UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member = Geosciences=20 Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety=20 Council

 

 

Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:49:19 EDT Sean-Thomas, Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer saying "thanks, but no thanks". Like you, I am a judge at the science fairs and my experience confirms that what you have said pretty much sums up what is true of the rest of the science fairs. I recently spent two hours judging nine projects entered by high school students here in Orlando, FL. where we had over 300 entries and more than 100 judges. I find help and support from teachers and parents plays a large part in how much interest the student takes in making a project that amounts to their learning something about doing science. Parents are the most important. If they have no interest in science their kids are not going to be interested. They see it as a homework assignment that should require a few days at most and be over with. Despite the disasters we see I find it very rewarding to be a judge at the fair each year. A question I always ask is whether they are thinking of pursuing a career in science or engineering. This year only one answered yes. She was an Asian girl and her project was well done and I'm sure she spent months preparing it for the fair because it was the best of the nine I judged. Just one is enough to keep me judging the fairs. I hope some of the rest of you PSN seismo builders will consider volunteering to be science fair judges. It's a very rewarding experience and something we can do to help society produce the scientists and engineers our country will need in the future. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:50:51 -0700 That is too bad....She might have taken your advice and gone on to better things next year. I also wrote her privately suggesting to her that asking for advice on the project 2 days away and then adding a trip was planned also, made it almost impossible to do anything for this year and to take the lumps... I have 7 kids....All that have completed high school did a science fair project. I still have two at home and this year I am going to have them work together on the site that Jim ODonnell suggested! What a wonderful URL! Thanks Jim. Out of 7 kids I have a BS RN who is working on her NP MS and a Physical Therapist son who is working on a PhD. Both of these kids did science fairs not so long ago (*at least it seems that way to an aging parent). One did a demonstration of liquifaction and won the fair top prize. It always makes a dad proud when something I had been doing seems to have rubbed off....Again thanks Jim! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Re: science fair seis > Sean-Thomas, > > Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish > her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I > could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try > again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer > saying "thanks, but no thanksmore information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:18:22 EDT It would be most helpful when forwarding requests for help, advice, etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help, but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to 'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong deity could loose you friends and still not influence people! Regards, Chris Chapman      It would be most helpful when forwarding request s for help, advice,
etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the
situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help,
but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to
'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer
for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong
deity could loose you friends and still not influence people!

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:05:35 -0700 This is a test of Larry's anti-spam software, which has been rejecting my e-mail for about a week. My ISP is a major vendor in Silicon Valley and one of the alegedly reputable ones, but seems to be in the data base of abusers in Larry's software. As instructed in the "bounce-back" message, I forwarded the information to my ISP. If you are reading this, they may have managed to get their name off the "bad-ISP" list. Spam is a serious problem, I get about 50/day by virtue of running a home business with a web site. It's an inconvenience at home and a real burden on the road using a hotel dial-up connection. The spammers have software that mines web sites for e-mail addresses and compiles lists. You can buy a CD ROM with several million addresses for about $30, and since e-mail is free, send out millions of junk for free. I'm ready for that tax on e-mail just to eliminate this. To be consistent with this thread, here is a copy of my response sent by regular e-mail to the mom with the science fair problem. While all the comments were valid and helpful, this was my approach to creating a display in two days for a 10-year old. Admittedly, we're not talking great science here, and certainly not a winning entry, but probably some good parent-child quality time. > Desperate Mom > Construct a simple seismograph from hardware store materials? > One method is to use a plumb bob, available from your local hardware > store. Construct a pendulum with the plumb bob. Make the string long > enough so that the period is about one second. Construct an aparatus to > hold the string to make it portable. > After you establish the period, put a tray at the bottom and fill it > with fine sand (level). The sand will provide damping for the pendulum > and record the vibrations when your earthquake comes. > You can see a photo of a similar device at > http://www.earthquakerose.com/ along with a recording from the recent > Seattle earthquake. A downloaded copy of that photo would make a nice > addition to the display at the science fair. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:11:51 -1000 I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:58:37 -0700 At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Mike Price mprice@........ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:10 -0700 Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Victor.Taylor@......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:14:33 -0400 Ask FEMA how and where they compiled their data for these astounding news releases. -----Original Message----- From: mprice@........ [SMTP:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:50 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA Report URL From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:19:07 -0700 Hi If you are interested, the FEMA report can be accessed at: http://www.fema.gov/library/fema354.htm Ron __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismograph From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:34 -0700 Paul, Sorry, I can't help you. I'm CC'ing the Public Seismic Mailing list. Maybe someone on the list can help you. PSN'ers please send email directly to Paul Hudak. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hudak" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Seismograph > Dear Mr. Cochrane: > > I saw your web page on seismographs. I'm with > the Department of Geography at the University of > North Texas. We are located in the Environmental > Science Building, one of the most visible buildings > on campus. About 20,000 school children come > through the building each year to learn about > geology and the environment. We have various > exhibits and activities for them. Now for the > reason I'm writing ... > > I was wondering if you might be willing to donate > a used seismograph that we could set up > as an exhibit in the building. It wouldn't > have to be too complex. Just something > schoolkids could look at and see how > it works. We are not for profit, > so you could take a tax write off. We would also > acknowledge your contribution by putting your name > right on the exhibit. > > If you are unable to donate something, perhaps you > could direct me to some possible donators. I really > appreciate your time in reading this letter and > considering this request. > > Paul Hudak > Associate Professor > Geography, UNT > hudak@....... > 972 874-0741 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: John Hernlund hernlund@............ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:25:50 -0700 LA Times had an article about this a few days back. Apparently building experts in LA are sitting the fence on the issue, since they weren't sure that enough testing had been done on the proposed new joints. As for me, the building I live in survived violent shaking in Santa Monica during Northridge, and afterward was reinforced to be even better than before 1994...that seems like a good criteria to go by. Mike Price wrote: > Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, > especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design > flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between > beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves > for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was > observed in Kobe. > > Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? > If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news > now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame > buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are > more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? > What design changes were introduced? > > Thanks, > Mike Price > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: barry lotz gbl@....... Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:40:19 -0700 Mike Along the same design principal as was mentioned by John. Much research has also been done in the past (I worked on several projects at UC Berkeley in the early 70's) to put "plastic hinges"(really ductile- not plastic as in the material) in reinforced concrete beams a distance away from concrete columns. This provides energy absorption,ductility and protects the load carrying capacity of the columns. Regards Barry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:19:24 -1000 Either location is feasable for me, Down town being a little easier. My only difficulty is that I need to book my flights in the next week or so. Is the meeting likely to be confirmed soon? Thanks Steve Hammond wrote: > At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to > hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. > Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th > > I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity > to > attend. Is this meeting still likely? > > Thanks > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:23:23 +1000 At 17:55 20/04/01 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay >people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural >engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. yes i also heard abt this within 12 months of the Northridge earthquake in an article on that quake in the National Geographic magazine it showed pic or 2 of weld failures and comments on how many LA hi-rises were constructed this way Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:24:01 EDT Hi, I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container. Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions. Thanks Ian UK Extinction is the last step! Hi,

I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical
drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container.
Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions.

Thanks
Ian
UK

Extinction is the last step! Subject: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:33:31 EDT Are there any PSN members living in the UK. I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. Almost completed an AS2 build. Ian Extinction is the last step! Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: lehman damping From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:11:19 -0500 (CDT) Ian, Why don't you use electromagnetic damping of the moving coil? Fluid damping of seismometers went away in the 30's. It is mostly guesswork, position dependent, messy, and it is very difficult to make an oil/vane dashpot that critically damps a large mass because of the close clearances needed vs the imprecise movement of the large boom. And just before THE great quake, a beetle will drown itself in the oil. I have described electromagnetic damping previously; it simply involves shunting the main coil with an appropriate resistor. Modern amplifiers have no problem making up for the resulting signal loss. If you know (or can determine) a number of parameters of your coil/magnet, the damping can be exactly calculated. Once installed, you can forget about it, whereas the oil dashpot is a constant p.i.a. You should find it in the PSN archives. If not, I will repeat it. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: lehman damping From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:44:27 EDT Sean-Thomas Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html I'll read up on it. I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated. Ian Extinction is the last step! Sean-Thomas

Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html
I'll read up on it.  I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it
has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: 2001 SSA Meeting in San Francisco From: Dick Webb dwebb2@.............. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:40:06 -0400 Hi, I just wanted to rub it in a little by mentioning how great the meeting was last week in San Francisco. Not only were the presentations very interesting and educational, but the field trip to the faults east of the bay were great. And, I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Lehman and spending some time with him. You missed a great meeting! Jim took some pictures and said he would send me copies that I can scan. I will send them to the PSN and rub it in some more that you should have come. Perhaps next year at Victoria, BC or the year after in Puerto Rico we can motivate you to attend and even have a PSN meeting for the country and world. Dick __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:47:46 -0500 Hi Everyone, I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. They look like huge beast!! > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older KS36000 >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, but many >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is willing to make >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First come, first >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > >For more information, contact: > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > Best regards, Angel mailto: angel@............ www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: UK From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:47:07 -1000 Looks like the answer may be no! I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire. When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman. Cheers Ian Smith http://www.iasmith.com KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote: > Are there any PSN members living in the UK. > I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. > Almost completed an AS2 build. > > Ian > > Extinction is the last step! Looks like the answer may be no!  I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire.

When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman.

Cheers

Ian Smith
http://www.iasmith.com
 

KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote:

Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step!

Subject: Re: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:26:31 EDT Ian, The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found another three through that contact. That makes at least five of us here in England. Ian Extinction is the last step! Ian,

The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found
another three through that contact.  That makes at least five of us here in
England.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Re: Free KS36000 seismometers From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:21:26 -0600 Hello Angel and others interested in these seismometers. Bob Hutt has asked me to relay a message to the group regarding these seismometers. He is preparing a corrected text regarding the type of instrument this is and what is required to operate them. AS soon as I get a copy I will post to the group. Briefly, these units are about 5-6 feet long and 8-9 inches in diameter and weigh about 150 pounds. THey require a test box to set them up. In addition, they must be installed in a borehole to operate correctly. They are available for PICK UP only and none can be packed or shipped. Raul Alvarez La Estrellita Observatory Bellvue, CO Angel Rodriguez wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in > Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does > if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. > They look like huge beast!! > > > > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > > > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older > KS36000 > >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, > but many > >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is > willing to make > >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First > come, first > >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > > > >For more information, contact: > > > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt > >Scientist-in-Charge > >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY > >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 > >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > > > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) > >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) > >FAX: (505)-462-3299 > >Email: hutt@............... > >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > > > > > > Best regards, > Angel > > mailto: angel@............ > > www.volcanbaru.com > > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:10:10 -0600 Hi All, OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. Attachment follows: Raul, Here is the amended message on the free seismometers. Regards, Bob Hutt >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:08:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: Bulkmail System >Subject: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers >To: undisclosed-recipients:; > >Subject: More on "Free" Seismometers > >Due to the large number of inquiries regarding the "free" KS36000 borehole >seismometers, >more explanation is necessary: > >NOTE THAT THESE SEISMOMETERS ARE VERY DEFINITELY NOT SUITABLE FOR THE AMATEUR >SEISMOLOGIST OR HIGH SCHOOL. THEY ARE EXPENSIVE TO DEPLOY AND OPERATE, >AND REQUIRE >SPECIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT. THEY ARE THEREFORE NOT QUITE "FREE." > >1. USGS/ASL is not in a position to "pack up and ship" any of these units >to anyone. >You must come pick them up yourself. There are no shipping containers >available. They >may be transported (very carefully) in the back of a van or a truck. Each >unit weighs >about 150 lbs and is 5.5 inches in diameter and 6 feet >long. Accelerations greater than >about 2G may destroy them. > >2. Special handling equipment is required: Test Set/Controller for >installation (we >only have 6); winch and mast assembly (we have none); a special >(expensive) cable made >both for lifting and signal hookup (we have none); and a borehole to put >them in. All >the special equipment would have to be purchased from Geotech Instruments >LLC: > Phone: 214-221-0000. > >3. These seismometers do not come with any recording equipment of any >kind. They are >only the transducer that converts ground motion into electrical signals. > >4. We will not be ready for anyone to pick up any seismometers this >week. They are >currently on Kirtland AFB and are inaccessible to the public. We will >make them publicly >accessible for pickup by May 7, 2001, at our warehouse near the airport in >Albuquerque. >Do not plan on picking any up before that date. > >5. Limited list of Specifications: May be installed at up to 1,000 feet >depth, with >proper cable and connector. Power: 22-28 VDC, approx. 5 >watts. Three-axis (vertical >and two orthogonal horizontals). Amplitude response from each >axis: 5,600 v/m/s/s from >4.2 Hz to 3 sec period, then increasing (6 db/oct) to peak of 126,000 >v/m/s/s at 80 sec >period, then decreasing at 6 db/oct at longer periods. Falls of at 12 >db/oct at >frequencies higher than 4.2 Hz. Suitable for teleseismic work. More >specifications may >be obtained from Geotech Instruments. > >6. Only about 4 of the ~40 seismometers have been tested and found to be >partially >operational (some channels very noisy or not working, other channels >fairly good). The >condition of the other 36 instruments is unknown, although they were >supposedly working >when un-installed 2-3 years ago from foreign locations. > >For those of you who have contacted USGS/ASL so far, please make contact >again and let us >know if you are still interested. > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:02:53 EDT In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Hi Raul, A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent separately by UPS. Best Regards, Cap Casper Hossfield 935 Warwick Turnpike Hewitt, NJ 07421 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:23:16 -0500 Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards ángel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __________________________________________________________ Cac> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Cac> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with Cac> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe Cac> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Gravitometer plans? From: Mark Andrews mja6042@............. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:31:18 -0500 Hello All, Would anyone be able to point me to some plans/diagrams on the internet for building a gravitometer? Thanks for the help, Mark PS: I am now successfully running my first home built SG sensor. "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." --Groucho Marx __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:43:02 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............... writes: << Hello Cap, =20 I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. >> Hi Angel That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt.= =20 As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be=20 willing to pass it around to others.=20 The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement=20 that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them=20 out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame t= o=20 let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of=20 dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a= =20 fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be= =20 saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship= =20 them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer.= =20 Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to=20 help save them from certain destruction? A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any=20 other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage=20 floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a=20 hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a=20 "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort=20 of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the=20 vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a=20 long-period horizontal Lehman. I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and=20 the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a cop= y=20 of Angel's complete message Best regards and thanks, Cap =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the=20 expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards =E1ngel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, =20 Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it.= =20 And=20 Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck=20 somewhere=20 Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these=20 fine=20 Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing=20 company=20 Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us= =20 who=20 Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the=20 first to=20 Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to=20 cover=20 Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first=20 offer I'd=20 Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for=20 Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent=20 Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:05:24 -0600 Hi Cap, No promises, but I am working on a solution. I am in Colorado and am thinking of some way to solve this dilemma. Your suggestions welcomed. I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory CapAAVSO@....... wrote: > In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ > writes: > > << Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. >> > > Hi Angel > > That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt. > As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be > willing to pass it around to others. > > The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement > that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them > out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame to > let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of > dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a > fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be > saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship > them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer. > Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to > help save them from certain destruction? > > A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any > other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage > floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a > hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a > "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort > of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the > vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a > long-period horizontal Lehman. > > I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and > the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a copy > of Angel's complete message > > Best regards and thanks, > Cap > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. > > "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively > very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of > the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 > please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur > community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the > test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the > expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. > > regards > > ángel > > Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: > > Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: > > Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please > Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> > > Cac> Hi Raul, > > Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. > And > Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck > somewhere > Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these > fine > Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing > company > Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us > who > Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the > first to > Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to > cover > Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first > offer I'd > Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for > Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent > Cac> separately by UPS. > > Cac> Best Regards, > Cac> Cap > > Cac> Casper Hossfield > Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike > Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 > Cac> __ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory >> Hi Raul, Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably too big and heavy by the time you pack and crate them to go by UPS. The trucking company should be able to tell you how to arrange to have the Seismometer picked up and strapped onto a skid for shipping. My experience with transporting heavy stuff like this is that it is less apt to suffer damage from rough handling on a skid where a lift truck operator loads and unloads it at the trucking terminal than if it is packed in a box or crate for UPS shipping. Thanks for your help. Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:28:53 -0700 Hi all, Robert my brother Bob thinks the units are of the analog output and LVDT type sensing. The tester seems to read resistance and capacitance which seems to be a "clue" tip off for this type of sensing. I'am not into much electronics but I've seen a generally simple circuit that may have possiblities in this regard. Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:33:18 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 9:35:54 PM GMT Daylight Time, mlamb1@.......... writes: << Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb >> Hi Meredith, I would definitely want to homebrew whatever I would connect to the free KS36000 I hope to get, to make it into a usable seismograph. From what Dr. Hutt has said about them it is reasonable to guess they were used to monitor underground nuclear tests and so your guess that they are 20-30 years old is probably correct. Undoubtedly Geotech made a rugged but yet accurate instrument so it could be shipped around the world and installed in deep bore holes in far away places to perform for many years without maintenance. They should make a very good seismo for anyone willing and able to homebrew the same stuff they would have to homebrew to go with a Lehman they might build. Thanks, Meredith, for your helpful advice. I hope others will add further advice and comments too. Thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:40:22 EDT Hi there, It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a technical handbook somewhere? Regards, Chris Chapman Hi there,

      It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also
market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us
what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a
technical handbook somewhere?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:53:07 -0700 Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them might be a viable option. At worst it might involve hack-sawing a mounting frame apart (I'd personally use a angle grinder if it came to that.) Once they're apart the seismo masses could be blocked for shipment thereby protecting them. And once they're in that size unit, they could be shipped UPS, cheaply and quickly. The electronics inside may have gotten moist or wet, that would account for the "noisy" performance. One calibration/control box unit is essential to back engineering the required voltages and expected levels to make homebrew electronics. In particular I expect that it had remote control leveling motors to set it up once it was in the borehole. If Raul can do an initial look-see, maybe take some photos to discuss possible separation methods, I'd be willing to fly down and help cart them to a storage locker and take them apart with the aforementioned process. (Raul, if you schedule it later in the week, maybe I can fly down for the look-see also.) I can bring the angle grinder! Two people, a rental truck and a cherry picker/engine lift could handle the instruments. 3 or more could probably just pick them up by hand. I'd estimate a day to move them and maybe 3 days work to break down 40 instruments. After that shipping would be extra. A small storage locker would be about $50 for a month but probably wouldn't allow working on them there. A better option would be to find an aviation homebuilder at a local airport who would let us use some space for a couple of days. If you think this makes sense, I might be able to pursue that option. Anyway, that might keep the shipping and overhead costs low. What do you think? Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:06:43 -0400 I would like very much to be able to get one of the seismometers. I unfortunatly have no way to pick them up. if one or two could be trucked up my way it would be great. as long as i can afford the shipping. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT > >In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >ralvarez@........ writes: > ><< I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make >it >easier > to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as >they are > heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need >exceptional >packing > to survive - read "crating". >Raul Alvarez >LaEstrellita Observatory >> > >Hi Raul, > >Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation >over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking >company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a >seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are >interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably >too big and heavy by the time you pack and crate them to go by UPS. The >trucking company should be able to tell you how to arrange to have the >Seismometer picked up and strapped onto a skid for shipping. My experience >with transporting heavy stuff like this is that it is less apt to suffer >damage from rough handling on a skid where a lift truck operator loads and >unloads it at the trucking terminal than if it is packed in a box or crate >for UPS shipping. > >Thanks for your help. >Cap >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The KS36000 sensor specifics with other details. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:12:50 -0700 >> Hi all, >> >> Dennis recla wrote me this email on the ks36000, he used to >> work on them years ago. Basically it uses capacitive sensor/s >> and NOT the LVDT type as I mentioned earlier today as a >> (false) assumption/guess. Their is plus's and negatives. > Here is his forwarded email...and, thanks Dennis for the email and excellent description! >> >> >> >> Dennis Recla wrote: >> >> > Hi MeredithSince I can't leave e-mail on PSN, I'll send this one to >> > you.The KS-36000 (KS for Kirkpatrick / Starkey the engineers that >> > designed it) seismometer, consists of 3 malt/shake can sized >> > sensors that hang one above the other and make use of a capacitive >> > type sensor to monitor 120 degrees of orientation. I don't recall >> > if the unit itself provides NS EW & V or if it gives just the >> > output from each canister and the user has to convert them to the >> > correct directions. The test box provides the necessary voltages >> > and controls to level the canisters, they use a blast of air from a >> > small cylinder inside the case, to float the canister to level each >> > unit. They are suspended on a ball support thingee, the air >> > provides a bearing and it levels and when the air is removed it is >> > level. The test box lets you know if each canister is level, and >> > if you need to run the motor / air cylinder again to level >> > them. Each unit has a hole lock, and an orientation base, that gets >> > locked into the borehole. The test box is also used to control the >> > hole lock. Seems like it was a 6 inch diameter borehole, but >> > perhaps 8 inch. (Sorry it's been years since I worked with one of >> > them). It's a pain to get them open, since it was designed for a >> > deep hole, and they are well sealed. Each canister is in a vacuum >> > that is then back filled with helium (I think that's what was >> > used). The fill gas had to be a small molecule since the air >> > molecules hitting the mass would cause noise in the sensor. It >> > provides LP and SP outputs from the sensor. Generally if they get >> > noisey, the seal has been lost from the canister. At the factory, >> > each canister was put in a temperature chamber, heated, and >> > evacuated using a multi-stage vacuum system then backfilled.There >> > isn't an coil and magnet assemblies in the seismometer, it's a >> > capacitive array, a little like the tuning capacitor of an old >> > radio set. Each sealed canister detects 120 degrees of direction, >> > and when combined provide a 360 degree output. If you can't use >> > them as they are, there isn't much in the way of parts to build >> > another seismometer from. That's about all I can contribute on >> > these units right now, there are still several stations running >> > these units, but it's been replaced by the KS-54000 >> > seismometer.Dennis >>
Hi all,

Dennis recla wrote me this email on the ks36000, he used to
work on them years ago.  Basically it uses capacitive sensor/s
and NOT the LVDT type as I mentioned earlier today as a
(false) assumption/guess.  Their is plus's and negatives.

      Here is his forwarded email...and, thanks Dennis for the email and excellent
description!
 
 

Dennis Recla wrote:

Hi MeredithSince I can't leave e-mail on PSN, I'll send this one to you.The KS-36000 (KS for Kirkpatrick / Starkey the engineers that designed it) seismometer, consists of 3 malt/shake can sized sensors that hang one above the other and make use of a capacitive type sensor to monitor 120 degrees of orientation.  I don't recall if the unit itself provides NS EW & V or if it gives just the output from each canister and the user has to convert them to the correct directions.  The test box provides the necessary voltages and controls to level the canisters, they use a blast of air from a small cylinder inside the case, to float the canister to level each unit.  They are suspended on a ball support thingee, the air provides a bearing and it levels and when the air is removed it is level.  The test box lets you know if each canister is level, and if you need to run the motor / air cylinder again to level them. Each unit has a hole lock, and an orientation base, that gets locked into the borehole.  The test box is also used to control the hole lock.  Seems like it was a 6 inch diameter borehole, but perhaps 8 inch.  (Sorry it's been years since I worked with one of them).  It's a pain to get them open, since it was designed for a deep hole, and they are well sealed. Each canister is in a vacuum that is then back filled with helium (I think that's what was used).  The fill gas had to be a small molecule since the air molecules hitting the mass would cause noise in the sensor.  It provides LP and SP outputs from the sensor.  Generally if they get noisey, the seal has been lost from the canister.  At the factory, each canister was put in a temperature chamber, heated, and evacuated using a multi-stage vacuum system then backfilled.There isn't an coil and magnet assemblies in the seismometer, it's a capacitive array, a little like the tuning capacitor of an old radio set.  Each sealed canister detects 120 degrees of direction, and when combined provide a 360 degree output.  If you can't use them as they are, there isn't much in the way of parts to build another seismometer from. That's about all I can contribute on these units right now, there are still several stations running these units, but it's been replaced by the KS-54000 seismometer.Dennis
Subject: Re[2]: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:26:16 -0500 Hello Charles, Some nice pictures of these KS36000 brutes: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Why use your PC... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:01:37 -0700 What are the benefits of integrating a seismograph recording system with one's PC? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Why use your PC... From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:17:02 -0700 Hi Kareem -- Here are some advantages of using a PC: There are LOTS of PCs around and older ones can be had for very little money. Data ends up on the hard disk of the PC where it can be easily shared with others. Archival data can be written to CDROM for storage. No ink to mess with. No recording paper to buy. The paper or ink never runs out just before a big event occurs. Replacement parts for a PC are easily obtained should it fail. The PC can be located near the seismometer and connected via network to other PCs for data analysis. This can reduce noise pickup. There are really great programs available to do the data recording. Disadvantages: For public display, the output may not be as impressive as a drum recorder. Knowledge of computer hardware and software is required to set it up. You need to add an A/D converter board in the PC to capture the signals, and they tend to be somewhat expensive. You can't as easily look at a whole day's record on one page, as with a drum recorder. Fans need occasional cleaning. Power consumption is higher. PCs create electronic noise that can interfere with the sensitive electronics in seismometers. -- Karl At 07:01 AM 4/27/2001 -0700, you wrote: >What are the benefits of integrating a seismograph recording system with >one's PC? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: looking for a really cheap ADC card. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:48:16 -0400 can be new or used, doesn't matter so long as it works. just need something compatible with SDR with 1 or more channels. Just something to start out with. by really cheap I mean $20 or less (about all my current budget can handle). I tried building one but was unsuccessful (never seemed to work at all). -Travis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Danie Overbeek" danieo@............ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:07:09 +0000 Hi Cap I hope you get the free seismometer. It sounds like a good deal to me. Cheers Danie. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:55 EDT In a message dated 4/27/01 1:07:18 AM GMT Daylight Time, charles.r.patton@........ writes: << Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them might be a viable option. >> Hi Charles, I like the idea of loading the KC36000 seismos on a truck and taking them to storage shed to take them apart. It solves Dr. Hutt's problem which is that he has to clear all of them out of his warehouse and we are saving all forty of these high quality instruments. I would like to fly down and help you and Raul too but I live too far away. Instead I will help you by putting a check in the mail for $100 to help pay for trucking and a storage shed. One of the things I believe we should consider is, is it a good idea to just hack them all to pieces? Being in a hurry we might do something we later wish we hadn't done. I believe it would be better to Test them first to pick out the good ones. Dr. Hutt says he checked 6 of them that are in good condition. Some of us might like to have the whole three instruments in the case so we can set them in the ground like you see done in the web site Angel gave us: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html I believe they would do quite well in a shallow hole you could dig with a post hole digger of the type used to plant fence posts. Just level them up, pack some sand around them and build some homebrew electronics and you have a seismometer as good as any the Geological survey uses. What do you think of this idea: Suppose instead of taking couple of days taking them all apart in Albuquerque, you drive the truck all the way home to California where you live. Then put them in a storage shed near home and you can take them apart a few at a time on weekends without rushing. That way you could UPS a few individual units to interested people who could try them out and let the rest of the PSN people know how they work. Maybe some others could help out by sending a few bucks too, to get this project on the way?? I hope others will also post some ideas on how we can go about all this. Best regards, Casper Hossfield __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:43:20 -0400 I can't remember who exactly siad it but someone siad (in this mailing list) that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise (probely the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:55 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB4B3BC005040043148D864E082092B0; Sat Apr 28 18:05:05 2001 >Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.165]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 28 Apr >2001 17:54:02 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.70.a1ccd0b (3930) for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:51:56 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat Apr 28 18:06:32 2001 >Message-ID: <70.a1ccd0b.281cbfab@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 4/27/01 1:07:18 AM GMT Daylight Time, >charles.r.patton@........ writes: > ><< Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the > following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost > certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, > mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them > and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of > temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them > might be a viable option. >> > >Hi Charles, > >I like the idea of loading the KC36000 seismos on a truck and taking them >to >storage shed to take them apart. It solves Dr. Hutt's problem which is >that >he has to clear all of them out of his warehouse and we are saving all >forty >of these high quality instruments. I would like to fly down and help you >and >Raul too but I live too far away. Instead I will help you by putting a >check >in the mail for $100 to help pay for trucking and a storage shed. > >One of the things I believe we should consider is, is it a good idea to >just >hack them all to pieces? Being in a hurry we might do something we later >wish >we hadn't done. I believe it would be better to Test them first to pick out >the good ones. Dr. Hutt says he checked 6 of them that are in good >condition. >Some of us might like to have the whole three instruments in the case so we >can set them in the ground like you see done in the web site Angel gave us: >http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html I believe they would do >quite well in a shallow hole you could dig with a post hole digger of the >type used to plant fence posts. Just level them up, pack some sand around >them and build some homebrew electronics and you have a seismometer as good >as any the Geological survey uses. > >What do you think of this idea: Suppose instead of taking couple of days >taking them all apart in Albuquerque, you drive the truck all the way home >to >California where you live. Then put them in a storage shed near home and >you >can take them apart a few at a time on weekends without rushing. That way >you >could UPS a few individual units to interested people who could try them >out >and let the rest of the PSN people know how they work. > >Maybe some others could help out by sending a few bucks too, to get this >project on the way?? I hope others will also post some ideas on how we can >go about all this. > >Best regards, >Casper Hossfield >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:19:37 EDT In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes: > I can't remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing list) > that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am > assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise > (probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). If you go the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be provided with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS MANUAL" printed on the cover! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes:

I can' t remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing list)
that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I am
assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause noise
(probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place).


       If you g o the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a
look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo.
There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which
are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low
pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will
probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would
suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty
units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off -
there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have
the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC.
      If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be provided
with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The
manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS
MANUAL" printed on the cover!
      Regards,

      Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:44:38 -0400 ahhh, I see now. as for how to take them apart, if you look very carefully at the picture of the KS-54000 (I assume they are similar in construction), at the base there appears to be threads. from this I would think the outer casing simply screwed off. just a note, if they have been in the ground all this time I would guess any threads would probably be corroded. I agree that they should be tested and one of the noisy ones should be disassembled first to see exactly what the deal is. -Travis >From: ChrisAtUpw@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:19:37 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB4D5DE00A64004318FD864E0820D910; Sat Apr 28 20:30:46 2001 >Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.4]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 28 Apr >2001 20:21:46 -0700 >Received: from ChrisAtUpw@......... imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) >id x.cd.5d6619a (4002) for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 >23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat Apr 28 20:31:21 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 58 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 29/04/01, travis5765@........... writes: > > > I can't remember who exactly said it but someone said (in this mailing >list) > > that the sensors are sealed with a gas around them to prevent noise. I >am > > assuming that if you take them apart the gas will leak out and cause >noise > > (probably the reason for the noisy channels in the first place). > > If you go the the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a >look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. >There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section >which >are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low >pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There >will >probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would >suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with >faulty >units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - >there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have >the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. > If anyone could find a manual, one of which would probably be >provided >with every instrument of this sort of cost, it would be most helpful. The >manual of one of our 'scopes had "WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, TRY READING THIS >MANUAL" printed on the cover! > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: ADXL202 From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:38:50 -0700 Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:36:57 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 4:25:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << If you go the GeoTech site http://www.geoinstr.com/ and have a look at their current borehole seismos, they show a stripped down photo. There are three gold coloured cylinders suspended in the centre section which are presumably the sealed units. I would expect them to have very low pressure gas in them. This allows cooling but inhibits convection. There will probably be metal glass leadthroughs somewhere for the wiring. I would suggest that the instruments be tested if possible and only ones with faulty units be stripped down. It looks as if the main case can be stripped off - there has to be some way to make them! The current instruments seem to have the electronics inside them and require 24 V DC. >> Regards, Chris Chapman >> Hi Chris, I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/D converters stacked in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm) diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a small lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers. A similar electronics package may be inside the free KS36000 borehole seismometers. A better picture of a KS36000 is at http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html This is bigger and heavier and obviously is the whole unit that we are offered free for the taking. The outside container for this precision Geotech instrument is undoubtedly stainless steel so there will be no rust problem to prevent opening it and taking it apart. If Raul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be found in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in the "Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years ago. We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them are noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and air has leaked in to make them noisy. I believe I could refill the noisy sealed units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment. I would pump them down with a regular mechanical vacuum pump and refill them with pure Helium. Then I would pump the refilled Helium out and refill again with pure Helium. This process could be repeated several times and should end up with pure enough Helium inside so the unit would be as noise free as when Geotech first made it. The important thing right now is to help Raul and Charles get these KS36000s into a storage shed where they can take some of them apart. Once we see what's inside we can plan what to do next. PSN members can help by sending a small $$ donation to Raul and Charles. They are willing to do the work so the rest of us should be willing to finance the project. Even a small contribution will help. Our reward will be enough free precision Geotech seismometers for everyone Best regards, Casper Hossfield __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:38:05 EDT In a message dated 29/04/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes: > I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/D converters stacked > in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm) > diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a > small > lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers. Hi there Cap, I was actually looking at the KS54000 @.................................... They give the dimensions as 98" long by 5.38" dia. I believe that this is the replacement for the KS36000. > A better picture of a KS36000 is at > http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html If you go to this address and click the back button, there are photos of other installations. > If Raul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans > to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very > high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of > course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the > KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be > found > in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in > the > "Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years > ago. There should be a circuit diagram in the Seis manual. I would expect the oscillator/demodulator units to be inside the main casing. A setup similar to that on Seans site should be OK, or even a modification of the S-G capacity sensor. We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them are > noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units > filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium > atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the > capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and > air > has leaked in to make them noisy. It could be gas convection after an air leak in, or electronic circuit noise. I would expect the units to have been evacuated using a diffusion pump and a cold trap and baked to ~150 C to remove all water vapour. They would then be filled to a fraction of a mm Hg pressure with either hydrogen or helium. This allows internal heat conduction, but the low pressure prevents convection and this is essential. I believe I could refill the noisy sealed > units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like > to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my > Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment. They could be glass seals, but it is more common to use copper pipe seals. The Cu pipe may be tinned with soft solder on the inside. After pumping, the pipe is W crimped, heated to melt the solder and cut off. With suitable crimp tools, clean copper pipe may be crimped and cut in the same operation. The outside of the cut may then be tinned with solder or coated with epoxy. I used to work with vacuum systems in a university research lab. Hope that this helps. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 29/04/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes:

I believe what you see at this Geotech site is three A/ D converters stacked
in an aluminum cylinder. The physical dimensions given are 3.5 in (88.9 mm)
diameter, 27.0 in (68.6 cm) length and weighing 6 lb. (2.73 kg). Such a
small
lightweight package could hardly contain the three seismometers.


Hi there Cap,

      I was actually looking at the KS54000
@....................................
They give the dimensions as 98" long by 5.38" dia. I believe that this is the
replacement for the KS36000.

A better picture of a KS36000 is at   
http://www.geology.smu.edu/~hayward/Txar/ks.html   


       If you g o to this address and click the back button, there are photos
of other installations.

If Ra ul Alverez and Charles Patton go ahead with their plans
to rescue these KS36000s I believe they will be able to remove three very
high quality Geotech seismometers from each stainless steel cylinder. Of
course we will have to homebrew our own electronics if none is inside the
KS36000s. A description of the type of electronics we will need can be
found
in a description of a homemade seismometer with a capacity type sensor in
the
"Amateur scientist" section of "Scientific American Magazine" some years
ago.


       There sh ould be a circuit diagram in the Seis manual. I would expect
the oscillator/demodulator units to be inside the main casing. A setup
similar to that on Seans site should be OK, or even a modification of the S-G
capacity sensor.

We are told that they tested the KS36000s at Albuquerque and some of them
are
noisy. Other letters posted on PSN have said the seismos are sealed units
filled with Helium which lowers the noise figure because the light Helium
atoms create much less noise than heavier air molecules impacting on the
capacitor plates of the sensor. Apparently the Helium has leaked out and
air
has leaked in to make them noisy.

      It could be gas convection after an air leak in, or electronic circuit
noise. I would expect the units to have been evacuated using a diffusion pump
and a cold trap and baked to ~150 C to remove all water vapour. They would
then be filled to a fraction of a mm Hg pressure with either hydrogen or
helium. This allows internal heat conduction, but the low pressure prevents
convection and this is essential.

 I believe I could refill the noisy sealed
units with Helium and make them quite like they once were. At least I'd like
to have a couple to give it a try. I can get a tank of pure Helium from my
Welding supply dealer and I have glass blowing equipment.


      They cou ld be glass seals, but it is more common to use copper pipe
seals. The Cu pipe may be tinned with soft solder on the inside. After
pumping, the pipe is W crimped, heated to melt the solder and cut off. With
suitable crimp tools, clean copper pipe may be crimped and cut in the same
operation. The outside of the cut may then be tinned with solder or coated
with epoxy.

      I used to work with vacuum systems in a university research lab.
      Hope that this helps.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:33:11 -0700 Several points: 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on this list that could tailgate the load? 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers and continue in a similar manner. 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to try and keep moisture from infiltrating. Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:53:26 -0400 an idea on shipping, what about a rental moving van/truck? there are some that should be large enough to handle the load. -Travis >From: "Charles R. Patton" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L Mailing List >Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:33:11 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB5ABDE008A400438D6D864E0820A820; Sun Apr 29 11:43:47 2001 >Received: from mail2.pe.net (unverified [64.38.64.10]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sun, 29 Apr >2001 11:34:06 -0700 >Received: from ieee.org (IP-87-175.tem.pe.net [64.38.87.175])by >mail2.pe.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f3TIW8Y16750for >; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sun Apr 29 11:44:39 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEC5E67.8BB94661@........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Several points: > >1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my >plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry >to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I >don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car >occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a >1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, >but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and >half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a >tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in >the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different >drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on >this list that could tailgate the load? > >2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have >enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray >foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and >the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers >and continue in a similar manner. > >2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise >is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a >stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a >storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to >take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units >proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment >vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure >with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to >try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > >Charles R. Patton >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "ed thelen" ethelen@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:27:46 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles R. Patton" To: "PSN-L Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. ... > It would take a > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > the crating and shipping business I beg to differ. U-Haul and others regularly rent trucks of that capacity to "the rest of us". I have gone on a few "raids" myself - (for old computer equipment, etc.). I just called U-Haul, and their price for one way Albuquerque to L.A., for a 24 ft. truck rated at 4 tons, is $390, (they allow 4 days). That is probably a typical price. No special license is required, and a 24 ft. truck is not scary to drive (a breeze). I'm retired, and could participate, probably wishing to put a couple of units in my sedan for a trip to the S.F. bay area - where others would likely enjoy the fun also. ("Big boys, big toys?") > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > enclosed sides. Packing for such a ride and handling is interesting. Be a shame to wreck such equipment with casual handling. A good thing to research well! - locking for shipment - vibration/acceleration sensitivity - attitude, etc. > 2) Re: testing for noisy units I would bet that NONE of the instruments are sufficently noisy for us to test. Our typical enviroments are so many db more noisy that of a reasonably quiet site. > > Charles R. Patton Cheers Ed Thelen __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: ian ian@........... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:27:36 -1000 being some 3000+ miles from the action, my contemplating one of these is probably impractical :-( However, I'm wondering if some of these units can be broken up into 3 independant seismometers which can then be shipped by more conventional means (once they have reached the hanger). Sorry if this is a dumb question, despite looking at the http://www.geoinstr.com/ks54000i.htm web page, I still don't know what type of basic seismometer these are or what support electronics are required. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:38:41 -0500 Hello Ian, I too am 1000's of miles away and found the though of getting a 6 ft 150 lb cylinder in my suitcase a bit hard. If these units can be separated, I certainly would like to help out in any way I can and lay "dibs" on a set. Angel Sunday, April 29, 2001, 2:27:36 PM, you wrote: i> being some 3000+ miles from the action, my contemplating one of these is i> probably impractical :-( i> However, I'm wondering if some of these units can be broken up into 3 i> independant seismometers which can then be shipped by more conventional means i> (once they have reached the hanger). i> Sorry if this is a dumb question, despite looking at the i> http://www.geoinstr.com/ks54000i.htm web page, I still don't know what type of i> basic seismometer these are or what support electronics are required. i> Ian Smith i> __________________________________________________________ i> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) i> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with i> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe i> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:49:55 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 7:38:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, charles.r.patton@........ writes: << Several points: << 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and half range. That is still shy of the requirement. >> Hi Charles, I just checked with U-Haul truck rental service and you can rent a medium size do-it-yourself furniture moving truck that requires only an ordinary drivers license and it will do the job. The medium size truck is 17 feet long and can carry up to 11,000 lbs, almost twice as much as we need. The distance from Albuquerque, NM to Chino, CA is 933 miles and well within the free miles range that go with the truck rental. The rental cost will be $350 plus an $80 deposit which is refundable when you turn the truck in. So it is doable,-- if,-- we can get together $350. I have already sent Charles $100 so if the rest of you guys can provide the additional $250 we've got it made. There will then be a lifetime supply of fine Geotech seismometers for the PSN network and various schools we might want to help bring hands-on seismology to the classrooms. I hope to hear soon that there is enough PSN interest in these free Geotech instruments to raise the additional $250 needed. We are very lucky that Charles owns an airplane and has a hanger where he can store the seismos and take a couple apart to tell us what's inside. Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:01:45 -0500 Hello Cap, Where can I send $50 for this project? How about Paypal? Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re[2]: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:33:56 EDT In a message dated 4/29/01 9:14:03 PM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ writes: << Hello Cap, Where can I send $50 for this project? How about Paypal? Angel >> Hi Angel, Thanks for being the first to make such a generous offer to help the project financially. You can send your contribution to Charles Patton at this address: 21490 Camino Arriba, Murrieta, CA 92562 but you should check with him first if you wish to use Paypal. Email him at: charles.r.patton@........ (Charles R. Patton) Many thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: Brett Nordgren bnordgren@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:56:12 -0400 I am wondering if anyone has access to an operating manual, or even better a service manual for the KS3600's, or for their calibration equipment. If we could dig one up somewhere, it would seem that it ought to be able to answer a lot of questions. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 posthole seismometers From: "ed thelen" ethelen@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:04:24 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. Well, the pot seems boiling :-) Plan A) ( doable in mid May) (assuming we figure how to not damage the units in transit!) - I fly San Jose, CA to Albuquerque, New Mexico ( $137 on South West) - pick up truck - Albuquerque to Chino, one-way, U-Haul or what ever - estimated cost $400 - pack California units in manner to be determined (some one in area pre-pack??) cost ??? time??? - place California units onto truck (I even have a NASA fork-lift license ;-) - drive to Phoenix, AR, stay with friends, maybe stay 2 nights gas 50 gal? cost ?$100. - drive to L.A. (Chino) - deliver Southern California units to Chino gas 40 gal? cost ?$80. - load units for Northern California into cousin's husband's car - drive up L.A. to San Jose with my cousin's husband in his car for pickup by participating S.F. area folks (complicated, but he does this trip every few weeks.) gas 15 gal? cost ?$30 Estimated out of pocket for me $750, not including packing I contribute my time. --------------- Plan B) your turn :-)) Cheers Ed Thelen . __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 seismos From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bryan@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:57:47 -0500 I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one = and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay = shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks = Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms Big Quake just came through on my seismo=20
I would like to have = or buy one of=20 the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt
with the USGS he said I was = number 26=20 and I may not be able to get one and
that he had request for more = than one=20 from some people. I would pay shipping
or whatever If someone on the = list is=20 able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan S.
Goss............ Corinth=20 Ms


Big Quake just came through on = my seismo=20
Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:38:00 EDT Hi there all, Here are two additional sets of info which may be of help:- Chris, To add to your comments, I get the PSN e-mails but not a member and able to leave messages directly. You might pass along any of those that you think will help. Yes, each of the metal cups that hold the sensor package are sealed with a copper evacuation tube, and a glass sealed connection. Inside the stainless steel tube are 3 of the canisters, and each canister is about the size of a malted milk cup, like they used at the drug stores. Each hangs from the leveling fixture, that is basically a ball in a containter that can be filled with air to let the ball float and seek level. You still have to level the entire instrument, since the range of this auto leveling device is only about at best 5 or 10 degrees. (Sorry it's been years). Yes, a multistage vacuum pump was used, and the canister was heated, to help evacuate the air, and then filled back to slightly above atmospheric pressure. Remember each canister when leveled is not sensitive to north or south or up and down, it is a tri-axial package and each sensor covers part of the total 360 degrees of detection. To get a up/down output requires the combining of all three instruments to provide a usable signal. They work together to provide EW or NS and V outputs. What I don't recal is if the output was derrived inside the electronics of the downhole package or external to it. There are a set of electronic cards stacked on edge and vertical at the top of the internal frame that holds everything. By removing the bottom plug or maybe it was the top, the case slides off to reveil the framework that holds all the electronics and the three sensors. Inside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier electronics that connects via the downlhole cable. The canisters can be opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate, all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long. Deep hole versions had an alignment ring that was locked into the downhole pipe to provide alignment, later versions used in shallow holes had a North mark on the top. I remember one early version having a hole lock pin that came out the side of the top of the casing, to lock it from moving in deep holes. It was a motorized and geared pin that came out of the side at the top of the case. I did some of the original testing on the sensors when I worked at Teledyne Geotech, but was not involved in the manufacture of them, or any of the field installs. Other than seeing them being built and going through tests in the area next to my environmental testing lab. I operated the environmental test facility there during my 25 years at TG. We had seismic level shake tables, a pressure test well to check downhole instruments for leaks, and temperature chambers, and vibration test equipment. If anyone needs information on older TG/Geotechnical equipment, I still have alot of equipment information that I had on my bookshelf. When Teledyne started cutting back 9 years ago, I was working on a product for undergound leak detection, that I had a patent on, but the market wasn't ready for yet. Works great, just Expensive... I switched over to the meteorological product line (I did their systems engineering for them) which was also being sold off and ended up going to work for the competitor up here in Oregon. He bought the product line and two people who were supporting it. Me and a tech who remains in a office we set up in Dallas, doing field service work. If you have any questions, let me know, I'll try to answer them as best I can recall. Dennis Recla (541) 955-1704 recla@.......... Hi Meredith Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch showing what they look like inside. The one things that I think is important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V outputs. It requires all three sensors to get these outputs. In this way all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the total output. So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister. If a canister is bad, it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with working units. Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output. Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab. But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters. They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument. Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling around. If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly probable, use them. It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it. They usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever necessary. Dennis I seem to remember that I can't add attachments to PSN mail. I have downloaded and viewed this image and can send it on as neccessary. There is a cable head, a motorised pump for levelling, cable termination and electronics boards, three identical suspended seis sensors and the base plug. Regards, Chris Chapman Hi there all,

      Here are two additional sets of info which may be of help:-

Chris,
      To add to your comments, I get the PSN e-mails but not a member and
able to leave messages directly.  You might pass along any of those that you
think will help.
      Yes, eac h of the metal cups that hold the sensor package are sealed
with a copper evacuation tube, and a glass sealed connection.  Inside the
stainless steel tube are 3 of the canisters, and each canister is about the
size of a malted milk cup, like they used at the drug stores.  Each hangs
from the leveling fixture, that is basically a ball in a containter that can
be filled with air to let the ball float and seek level. You still have to
level the entire instrument, since the range of this auto leveling device is
only about at best 5 or 10 degrees.  (Sorry it's been years).  
      Yes, a m ultistage vacuum pump was used, and the canister was heated,
to help evacuate the air, and then filled back to slightly above atmospheric
pressure.  Remember each canister when leveled is not sensitive to north or
south or up and down, it is a tri-axial package and each sensor covers part
of the total 360 degrees of detection.  To get a up/down output requires the
combining of all three instruments to provide a usable signal.  They work
together to provide EW or NS and V outputs.  What I don't recal is if the
output was derrived inside the electronics of the downhole package or
external to it.  There are a set of electronic cards stacked on edge and
vertical at the top of the internal frame that holds everything.  By removing
the bottom plug or maybe it was the top, the case slides off to reveil the
framework that holds all the electronics and the three sensors.  
      Inside e ach sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and
electronics to provide an output which connects to the other internal
amplifier electronics that connects via the downlhole cable.   The canisters
can be opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top
plate, all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered
cup to top plate.  Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch
long.  
      Deep hol e versions had an alignment ring that was locked into the
downhole pipe to provide alignment, later versions used in shallow holes had
a North mark on the top.  I remember one early version having a hole lock pin
that came out the side of the top of the casing, to lock it from moving in
deep holes.  It was a motorized and geared pin that came out of the side at
the top of the case.
      I did so me of the original testing on the sensors when I worked at
Teledyne Geotech, but was not involved in the manufacture of them, or any of
the field installs.  Other than seeing them being built and going through
tests in the area next to my environmental testing lab.  I operated the
environmental test facility there during my 25 years at TG.  We had seismic
level shake tables, a pressure test well to check downhole instruments for
leaks,  and temperature chambers, and vibration test equipment.  
      If anyon e needs information on older TG/Geotechnical equipment, I
still have alot of equipment information that I had on my bookshelf.  When
Teledyne started cutting back 9 years ago, I was working on a product for
undergound leak detection, that I had a patent on, but the market wasn't
ready for yet.  Works great, just Expensive...  I switched over to the
meteorological product line (I did their systems engineering for them) which
was also being sold off and ended up going to work for the competitor up here
in Oregon.  He bought the product line and two people who were supporting it.
 Me and a tech who remains in a office we set up in Dallas, doing field
service work.
      If you h ave any questions, let me know, I'll try to answer them as
best I can recall.  

Dennis Recla (54 1) 955-1704 recla@..........

Hi Meredith
      Seeing l ots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch
showing what they look like inside.  The one things that I think is important
is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V
outputs.  It requires all three sensors to get these outputs.  In this way
all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation
at 120 degrees apart provides the total output.  So each canister is mounted
in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister.   If a canister is bad,
it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to
end up with working units.  Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem
doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output.
      Again, i t's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of
the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab.  But
saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater
chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters.
       Th ey should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument.  
Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling
around.  If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly
probable, use them.  It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6
ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it.  They
usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return
them for repairs if that was ever necessary.  

Dennis
      
      I seem t o remember that I can't add attachments to PSN mail. I have
downloaded and viewed this image and can send it on as neccessary. There is a
cable head, a motorised pump for levelling, cable termination and electronics
boards, three identical suspended seis sensors and the base plug.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman






Subject: Re: Sketch of insides of KS-36000 From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:17:18 -0700 Hi Dennis, Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions. That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects. It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing, of some sort. Thanks a bunch Dennis, Regards, Meredith Lamb ............ FOR PSN READERS: I can't or haven't yet figured out how to transfer the PDF image for viewing on a web site. The main points are somewhat repeated here: NOTE: THE THREE CANISTERS WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE OUTPUTS FOR VERTICAL, NORTH/SOUTH, AND EAST/WEST. THESE OUTPUTS ARE CALCULATED USING TRIG FUNCTIONS TO DERIVE THESE OUTPUTS. THERE IS NOT A VERTICAL SENSOR AND A EAST/WEST OR NORTH/SOUTH SENSOR. The PDF view seems to show a screw on "cable head" cap, or, rubber rings/screws on the cap/s themselves to keep out moisture ....then a main body, with the motorized air pump (to level canisters), then, underneath that, the electronics cards and cable interface. Underneath that are the 3 canisters one below the next. The "bottom plug" also seems to be a screw on cap, or rubber rings. The outer casing is stainless steel (undoubtedly the bulk of the weight). End of notes. ............................. Dennis Recla wrote: > Hi Meredith > Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch > showing what they look like inside. The one things that I think is > important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS > or EW or V outputs. It requires all three sensors to get these > outputs. In this way all the canisters could be identical in > construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the > total output. So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees > from the other canister. If a canister is bad, it could be replaced > from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with > working units. Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing > this, as I don't think each has an identical output. > Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of > the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test > lab. But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the > vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters. > They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument. > Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or > rolling around. If they still have the shipping containers for them, > which is highly probable, use them. It's a box about 1.5 ft square on > the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 > people to lift it. They usually would keep the shipping case around > since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever > necessary. > Dennis Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note
in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions.
That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual
sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects.
It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit
apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing,
of some sort.

Thanks a bunch Dennis,
Regards, Meredith Lamb
...........

FOR PSN READERS:
I can't or haven't yet figured out how to transfer the PDF image
for viewing on a web site.  The main points are somewhat
repeated here:

NOTE:  THE THREE CANISTERS WORK TOGETHER TO
PROVIDE OUTPUTS FOR VERTICAL, NORTH/SOUTH,
AND EAST/WEST.  THESE OUTPUTS ARE CALCULATED
USING TRIG FUNCTIONS TO DERIVE THESE OUTPUTS.

THERE IS NOT A VERTICAL SENSOR AND A EAST/WEST
OR NORTH/SOUTH SENSOR.

The PDF view seems to show a screw on "cable head" cap, or,
rubber rings/screws on the cap/s themselves to keep out moisture
...then a main body, with the motorized air pump (to level canisters),
then, underneath that, the electronics cards and cable interface.
Underneath that are the 3 canisters one below the next.  The
"bottom plug" also seems to be a screw on cap, or rubber rings.
The outer casing is stainless steel (undoubtedly the bulk of the weight).

End of notes.
............................

Dennis Recla wrote:

Hi Meredith
Seeing lots of notes about the KS-36000, here is a brief sketch showing what they look like inside.  The one things that I think is important is that there is not a single canister that is used for NS or EW or V outputs.  It requires all three sensors to get these outputs.  In this way all the canisters could be identical in construction, only their orientation at 120 degrees apart provides the total output.  So each canister is mounted in the frame at 120 degrees from the other canister.   If a canister is bad, it could be replaced from one of the other packages, sort of mix and match to end up with working units.  Getting them "tuned" might be the only problem doing this, as I don't think each has an identical output.
Again, it's been years, and I was mostly involved with the testing of the original prototype units, when I managed the environmental test lab.  But saw alot of them put together, and helped out a bit with the vacuum / heater chamber that was used to evacuate the canisters.
They should transport pretty well, it's a pretty rugged instrument.  Just avoid any sharp bangs, and keep them from hitting one another or rolling around.  If they still have the shipping containers for them, which is highly probable, use them.  It's a box about 1.5 ft square on the ends and about 6 ft long, with lifting handles on the sides for 4 people to lift it.  They usually would keep the shipping case around since they were used to return them for repairs if that was ever necessary.
Dennis
Subject: Re[2]: Sketch of insides of KS-36000 From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:15:11 -0500 Hello Meredith, I think that the Streckeisen STS-2 work the same way. The identical sensors 120 degrees apart. I do wonder what each sensor is capable of? angel Sunday, April 29, 2001, 6:17:18 PM, you wrote: ml> Hi Dennis, ml> Thanks for the REAL informative email....particularily the note ml> in regard to the 3 sensors all working together for all the functions. ml> That statement alone really makes me curious as to the actual ml> sensors individually, i.e., their construction, to derive all aspects. ml> It almost sounds like its a ball on a spring....but....each unit ml> apparently has a 120 degree on maximum/allowable sensing, ml> of some sort. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:35:50 -0600 Hi All, When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. Thanks, Raul "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > Several points: > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a > 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, > but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and > half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different > drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on > this list that could tailgate the load? > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray > foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and > the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers > and continue in a similar manner. > > 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise > is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a > stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a > storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to > take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units > proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment > vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure > with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to > try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > > Charles R. Patton > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN meeting? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:33:09 -0700 What's the latest with the PSN Meeting? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:40:56 -0700 Casey, This device is very similar to their ADX05. See the following pages for information on this type of sensor chip: http://www.seismicnet.com/adx05chip.txt and http://www.seismicnet.com/strongmotion.html Basically, they are only good for very strong motion. The newer chip may have a little better noise spec. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "David russel" To: Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 7:38 AM Subject: ADXL202 > > Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog > Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? > Casey __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:41:25 EDT In a message dated 4/30/01 12:43:24 AM GMT Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << Hi All, When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. Thanks, Raul >> Hi Raul, I am sorry there seems to be this misunderstanding. It is all my fault. The plan right from the beginning has always been that you would go down to Albuquerque and Charles would fly down to meet you there. Then the two of you would decide what to do with the free Seismometers. Certainly you and others from Colorado are welcome to load as many as you want into your cars to take home. What we have been trying to figure out in recent letters posted on PSN is figure out how we can get the rest of them to some place where they can be taken apart to figure out what is best to do with them and how to make them available to PSN members who might want one. Because Charles has a hanger where he can store them and take a few apart to see what is inside, recent letters have been to him in reference to how best to remove them from the warehouse that Dr. Hutt wants vacated and get them to California. Please rest assured that you are part of the plan and as many as you want are yours to take home with you after the two of you have gotten Dr.Hutt's warehouse cleaned out. I'm sure Charles intends to work with you in meeting Dr. Hutts schedule as to when you both should come to pick them up. Please forgive me for creating this misunderstanding. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fw: KS36000 From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:27:22 -0700 From Bryan Goss: ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bryan & Regina Goss=20 To: Larry Cochrane=20 Cc: Bryan Goss=20 Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Mail prob I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my account = bgoss@.................. I sent you this email using bgoss@......... = can you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send = anything to you using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one = and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay = shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks = Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having = some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage = cost if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the = units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built = seismograph.
From Bryan Goss:
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bryan & = Regina Goss=20
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Mail prob

I tried to send this to you and the = list but I can=20 not using my account bgoss@.................. I = sent you=20 this email using bgoss@.........  can=20 you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send = anything to you=20 using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss
 
 
 
I would like to have or buy one of the = KS36000=20 seismos I called Mr. Hutt
with the = USGS he=20 said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one and
that he had = request=20 for more than one from some people. I would pay shipping
or whatever = If=20 someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan=20 S.
Goss............ Corinth Ms

I have been trying to send this = message=20 to the list, but I am having some kind of trouble I would be willing to = pay for=20 part of the storage cost if necessary or help in any way I could I = really want=20 one of the units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a = home=20 built seismograph.
 
 
Subject: KS36k is a triaxial seismometer From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:03:59 -0500 (CDT) Following up on the info Dennis has provided Re. the KS36k triaxial seismometer. The fundamental design was first described by Melton in 1960, and a patent was granted in 1965 on the "Angular Composite Seismometer" The original prototype design was described in the BSSA in June 1970: "The Symmetrical Triaxial Seismometer - Its Design for Application to Long-Period Seismometry", by Ben S. Melton and B. M. Kirkpatrick; BSSA, Vol 60, No3, Pgs 717-739, June 1970. (B.M.Kirkpatrick was a project engineer at Teledyne Geotech) The research was supported by the Air Force AFTAC, ARPA, and the VELA uniform programs (of the cold war). The borehole prototypes were 10" in diameter and 99" long, and weighed 420 pounds. A single axis module weighed 107 pounds. The basic configuration is that of three identical sensors mounted as in a corner-cube, with the sensitive axis of each inclined inward 53 degrees from the vertical. This is currently used in the STS-2 sensor and the Trillium. The outputs of all three sensors, usually labeled U,V,W, are summed into orthogonal outputs X,Y,Z by resistors. In the STS-2, these resistors are of course identical for the vertical output (25k of of U, 26k of V, and 26k of W). For the Y output, The U channel is the fundamental (0k), summed with 23k of V and 23k of W. The X channel is 19k of U, 38k of V, and 38k of W. So it is important to note that a single sensor of the KS36k will not work as a stand alone seismometer. All three must be used and summed as above. One could remove them from the long borehole casing and operate them in a circle on a pier at 120 deg relative rotation, or put them in a relative fat tank (like the STS-2) on a single base for pier or shallow posthole installation. Or the Ks36k could be kept intact and put into a relative deep hole (gt. 10 meters) to provide the thermal equilibrium that the sensors require. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:48:50 -0600 RJA Can you believe this shit!!!! Am calling Mr Hutt again this AM. Will put the kabash on this latest example of California mentality. Later DL "Raul J. Alvarez" wrote: > Hi All, > > When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there > are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. > Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a > schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would > not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. > > Thanks, > > Raul > > "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > > > Several points: > > > > 1)Storage: If someone will drive them to Chino, CA, I have space in my > > plane hangar that we could store and disassemble -- no cost and no hurry > > to tear the units apart. The down side is the driving/truck trip. I > > don't have a truck, only a small trailer towable with my car > > occasionally. 40 units x 150# is 6000#. The trailer is rated for a > > 1000# -- just a bit of overload! I'm not conversant with truck ratings, > > but probably the do-it-yourself truck rentals are in the ton to ton and > > half range. That is still shy of the requirement. It would take a > > tractor/trailer type to haul that 3 ton load and then you'd be back in > > the crating and shipping business. Such trucks require a different > > drivers license and are probably out of our league. Any truckers on > > this list that could tailgate the load? > > > > 2) A thought just occurred to me for packing for trucking if you have > > enclosed sides. Put down a layer of seismo units, take cans of spray > > foam (as used for house insulation and such) spray between the units and > > the sides. That would lock them in and prevent shifting. Add layers > > and continue in a similar manner. > > > > 2) Re: testing for noisy units. I doubt this is possible. If the noise > > is due to thermal fluctuations of the gas, we would not be able to get a > > stable enough physical (read that as a no vibration) mounting in a > > storage unit to get to that noise floor level. I think one just has to > > take their chances in this area. My guess is that the seismo units > > proper were evacuated and always under vacuum, then the containment > > vessel holding the three seismo units was back filled under pressure > > with helium for uniform temperature control, corrosion control and to > > try and keep moisture from infiltrating. > > > > Charles R. Patton > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:23:37 -0600 Good morning Dave, Whoa Dave, please slow down. You posted this message to the PSN list! Sorry to all of you that received this. We are really not that harsh out here. I am sure we will all get what instruments we need. Cap, I read your letter and appreciate your comments. I certainly will work with Charles to be sure that, above all, we leave Mr. Hutt with a good impression of our group. You are correct in that we need to clear out these units from his warehouse ASAP. I apologize for any misunderstandings that have arisen. Raul "David A. Latsch" wrote: > RJA > > Can you believe this s---!!!! Am calling Mr Hutt again > this AM. Will put the kabash on this latest example > of California mentality. > Later > DL > > "Raul J. Alvarez" wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When planning on moving ALL 40 units to California, please remember there > > are three of us here in COlorado that plan to go directly to pick up ours. > > Your idea for distribution there is fine, but please remember there IS a > > schedule that was developed by Mr Hutt for distribution. I, for one, would > > not appreciate driving almost two days to find an empty warehouse. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Raul > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The KS36000 jumping the gun From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:55:51 -0700 First, let me apologize if I left the impression I was trying to abscond with all the units. I was just trying to size up the magnitude of the job if somebody becomes tasked with storing and later shipping the units to various requestors. Second, I realized I hadn't put my name on a request list, so I emailed Dr. Hutt last nignt to put in my request for a unit and ask about whether they were in shipping containers. This is his reply: ************* "The units are **not** in their original shipping containers. However, they are, to some extent, tied down to pallets (something like four or five units to a pallet). Once I figure out how many are left for your group I will contact you again. Please send me a list of the people for whom you are acting. This will help me a lot. The units will be available for pickup starting next week sometime, hopefully by Monday, May 7. However, don't plan on any particular pickup day yet until I do some coordinating and planning this week. Note: The PSN folks that I know about (and who I think are still interested) are: Raul Alvarez Casper Hossfield Karl Cunningham You There are other names on my list that I suspect are associated with PSN, but I don't have that information. Since the number of Test Set/Controllers (TS/Cs) are limited, it would be best if the PSN group could take only one TS/C and share it. (It is only needed at installation time.)" *************** If Raul, myself and others are going to move these units, we need to understand how many units are going where. As Dr. Hutt says above, he doesn't know the affiliation of all the requestors. I would like to request that the PSN members let us and/or Dr. Hutt know if they made a request for one of these units and are anticipating that we (Raul, myself and unknown others) are going to figure out how to ship it to them later (and identifying themselves as PSN members). An additional bit of information is whether you want it intact or it is OK to ship as separate pieces (which I anticipate should be cheaper, but that remains to be verified.) Then using that list together with Dr. Hutt's list we can find out how many units will actually have to be moved around. For instance, if the list above is substantially complete (I know that Angel wants one, so add his name to the list), then forget the truck, I'd use my car trailer to haul the units, and so I would just drive over. I could handle 6 complete units that way, or more if we could break them down immediately and dispense with the cases (a big unknown though). Sincerely, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Greetings...from "Colorful" Colorado :) From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:04:09 -0700 Hi all, In regards to the KS36k seismo in my view, I think we'll all end up in somewhat of a better shape if we can understand that overall the units are far too complex for any one individual to successfully "salvage", setup and maintain.....and to add to that, its more than likely just from their age factor, they are highly likely of NOT being totally fully operational (only, in themselves) to begin with. I'd also logically sure that USGS in Albuquerque will have a variety of individuals OTHER than PSN there for their own interests. One has be there just to obtain "something", to begin with. Its still a first come, first served basis as far as I know.....just to get the items. They could be overwhelmed on the first day or even the first hour. So....in a sense, its possibly better to have a number of PSN type people there, rather than just one or two. Personally, I like alot of the ideas put forth earlier by others...but...if they are not there at the time, their maybe nothing to acquire. I plan to be there, but I also am willing to relinquish any or all parts I'am lucky enough to get, to those individuals who I know have a much better chance of successful reclaimation, while there, or by later shipment. Its also likely that the time of overall involvement by any "volunteer" can eventually take years to do, and the chances of success will not be exactly extremely high. BTW, I'am expecting the New Mexico scenery this time of year to be quite spectacular...that....is going to be the biggest payoff to me, and the only likely "sure thing". Take care, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:26:46 -0400 > From: David russel > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:38:50 -0700 > > Does anyone, or rather has anyone done any experimenting with the Analog > Devices ADXL-202 accelerometer ? If so any luck ? I am working on single board systems using the ADXL202 and ADXL105 accelerometers. Here are some links I have collected on programming and soldering these surface mount chips: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/#links The good news about the ADXL202 is that it is 2 axis and it can be interfaced to a microprocessor counter to read it out. The bad news is that its noise spec is the same as the old ADXL05 chip that Larry Cochrane showed to be too noisy for most seismic work. My experiments with the ADXL202 show noise levels similar to Larry's. http://psn.quake.net/strongmotion.html If we could reduce the ADXL noise level by ~10x then it would be more like the Kinemetrics three component FBA-23A commercial strong motion sensor that Larry compared the ADXL05 to. The newer ADXL105 has half the noise level of the ADXL202, so that is a start. I notice that Larry's data spectra shows that most of the seismic signal he recorded was below 5 Hz, so we could reduce the noise further by by lowpassing the ADXL105 to ~5 Hz rather than the 10Hz LP that Larry used. I am working on an ADXL105 board that does this. It should have a noise level of ~ 0.5mg versus the ~1.6mg of Larry's ADXL05 system. We will probably have to wait for an improved accelerometer chip to get much lower noise. To get some idea of what you might detect with an ADXL based seismic system take a look at some the quake shake maps on the web. Here is a map of peak acceleration from a recent 5.1m quake. http://www.trinet.org/shake/9627721/pga.html If you click on the sensors located in LA (about 150km away), they felt ~0.15%g = ~1.5 mg. That might be just detectable with an ADXL system that had a noise level of ~0.5mg. Since I am in quake impaired VA, I plan to send my ADXL105 board to Jim ODonnell in NV to see how it does against real quakes. Hope this helps, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Planting geophones properly From: GeE777@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:55:05 EDT Hello, For your information, I have a U. S. patent 5,007,031 on a geophone loading tool to load geophones into shallow holes, level and align three component geophones. There is a compass and level in the handle of the loading tool. It also worked well with vertical geophones planted in shallow, sandy holes in the Egyptian Western Dessert. It speeded up production and the planted geophones were, on the avereage, planted vertical. George Erich Geophysical Exploration Consultant e-mail GeE777@....... http://hometown.aol.com/gee777/myhomepage/profile.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: KS36000 From: Victor.Taylor@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:03:46 -0400 I guess everyone would want a box full of snakes, if it was free. Age, and electrical condition should be considered as well. How do you align and calibrate this sensor. Do you need an oil well drilling device to make the hole. Is this an X - Y - Z, gimbaled sensor that requires a special calibrating tool. Who do I talk to, so I can sign up for my box full of snakes. Victor -----Original Message----- From: cochrane@.............. [SMTP:cochrane@............... Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:27 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Fw: KS36000 From Bryan Goss: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan & Regina Goss To: Larry Cochrane Cc: Bryan Goss Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Mail prob I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my account bgoss@.................. I sent you this email using bgoss@......... can you post this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send anything to you using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. Hutt with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get one and that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay shipping or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks Bryan S. Goss............ Corinth Ms I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage cost if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the units I am currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built seismograph. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:11:51 -0500 (CDT) A further note regarding dismantling the KS36000. Since it is a triaxial sensor, individual parts of it would be essentially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period. A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer. Since these were working systems when they were replaced by the KS54000s (some KS36ks are reported to still be in service), I think that a high priority should go to anyone who wants to spend the effort to install and operate one. I think that the analog electronics should be relatively easy to work with (no mysterious embedded micros), especially if the manuals can be found. (Has anyone asked Dr. Hutt about these?). The marvel of these systems is not so much in the electronics but in the mechanical engineering to minimize noise while still allowing the flexibility needed for remote centering and leveling while being rugged enough to be dragged to the ends of the earth ( i.e. around the former USSR) and surviving some moderate bumps. Everything that I have ever used from Geotech has been designed to last forever, so I don't think that deterioration from age is a factor. (The main reason that the KS36000 was replaced by the KS54000 is that the latter is a broadband fedback instrument using '90s technology.) I would love to have a single KS36k sensor module just to admire the construction. Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to avoid wind and barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for general teleseism detection. I think that the comment by R. Hutt that some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise levels above the original specifications. One would want to install one and operate it to see just what the noise level is. If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it, (I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water). You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing (1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will require some cooperation, and it may even be possible to pool resources and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:55:09 -0700 Dr. Hutt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it is about 500 pages. They are willing to make a limited number of copies in their office for interested parties. I would be willing to get a copy from Dr. Hutt and arrange to get copies made (probably $10-15 each) and send them out to those interested. Dr. Hutt also reiterated that since there is a limited number of the setup and calibration boxes available, hopefully the PSN members can share one and ship it around to those that need it. Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside each individual sensor might have been used to center the mass within its range? The pressure may have been set during production as a means of compensating for manufacturing tolerances in the spring and mechanism. Karl At 04:11 PM 4/30/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I think that the analog electronics should be relatively >easy to work with (no mysterious embedded micros), especially if >the manuals can be found. (Has anyone asked Dr. Hutt about these?). __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Gentlemen: I think folks here are excessively concerned about the fragility of these things. If they are tied down on pallets, then the mass and springiness of the pallets probably creates a package that could get shipped "as is". If you visit an air freight office, you can see really interesting things being shipped by air with rudimentary packaging (including strapped to pallets). Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is often much cheaper than truck. I routinely ship a 150 pound ground-penetrating radar across country for about $75. The key is to specify "slow air freight" instead of "next flight out" and go to the airport yourself. It may sit in Chicago for a day. So, if somebody could come up with a weight and count of the available pallets, you might just ask United Airlines for a quote to ship pallets to different airports for pickup by a local PSN representative. I would guess we're talking $200/pallet or less. If you add pickup on the Albuquerque end, it still might be reasonable. Delivery at the destination would cost extra. You might be able to afford a freight forwarder at the ALBQ end, maybe you ought to get a quote from Emery as well. They could do everything (just remember that slower is cheaper). Doug __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:51:11 -0400 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice writes: > Gentlemen: [edited] > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > often much cheaper than truck. That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. Scotty, give me the coordinates. Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:15:14 -0700 Clever. I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps even one to Italy and one to New Zealand (those would cost a little more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them around? Doug Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > writes: > > Gentlemen: > [edited] > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > often much cheaper than truck. > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > Tom > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:54:14 EDT When we were handling high pressure gas cylinders flat, we put a loop of ~3/4" rope around both ends of the first one, then loops around the second one, pull it tight up against the first and so on. The thickness of the rope (double underneath) acted as cushioning - seemed to work OK and kept them from rolling around and banging up against each other.... Regards, Chris      When we were handling high pressure gas cylinder s flat, we put a loop
of ~3/4" rope around both ends of the first one, then loops around the second
one, pull it tight up against the first and so on. The thickness of the rope
(double underneath) acted as cushioning - seemed to work OK and kept them
from rolling around and banging up against each other....

      Regards,

      Chris Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:07:17 -0400 don't for get Portland International Airport here in maine :-) -Travis >From: Doug Crice >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:15:14 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB74ED6006D40043254D864E082080A1; Mon Apr 30 17:31:23 2001 >Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (unverified [206.184.139.15]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Mon, 30 Apr >2001 17:19:55 -0700 >Received: from georadar.com (adsl-216-103-89-147.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net >[216.103.89.147])by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id >RAA28979for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon Apr 30 17:33:05 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEE0012.F9F83B36@............> >Organization: GeoRadar Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >References: <20010430.195111.-15789073.2.twleiper@........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Clever. > >I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could >go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps >even one to Italy and one to New Zealand (those would cost a little >more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them >around? > >Doug > >Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > writes: > > > Gentlemen: > > [edited] > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > Tom > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- >Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com >19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 >Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:10:47 EDT In a message dated 01/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > The key is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to > determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > Tom Is the winter hibernation over? Chris In a message dated 01/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

The ke y is to find some surplus JATO units and get down some test firings to
determine trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range.
Scotty, give me the coordinates.

Tom
      Is the winter hibernation over?

      Chris Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:20:14 +1200 Doug Crice wrote: > > Clever. > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. regards all Mark (those would cost a little > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them > around? > > Doug > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > writes: > > > Gentlemen: > > [edited] > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: manuals for KS36000 From: sean@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) re: KS3600 manuals Karl, Good work in addressing the manual problem. I would have asked Dr. Hutt myself, but he prefers that I devote all my interests to the Beam-Balance tiltmeter project. I no longer have access to a manual (for complicated reasons), so I would be more than happy to pay for a copy for reference. It is possible that I can help resolve problems for those who do get a working instrument. I would also be willing to try to design a home-made basic installation box for the KS36k, to just do simple centering, etc functions, so folks won't have to wait their turn for sharing the Geotech installation test and calibration box every time they wanted to work on their instrument. and Mark, down under: Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down there up is down, etc. And I would wait on digging the hole until your unit lands if it is sent by rocket. Hopefully the impact hole will be in your yard. Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters deep by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing to donate to the first taker. And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: manuals for KS36000 From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:05:22 -1000 UPS has a max weight of 150 lbs, so the units would have to be topped up with helium :-)). I didn't check fedex. $250 for Hawaii, obviously a lot less for ground shipping within the mainland. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Plan 9 from outer space From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:41:56 -0400 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) sean@........... writes: [edited] > Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down there > up is down, etc. Not necessary since the earth rotates the "other" way down there. > Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters deep > by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing to > donate to the first taker. > That's too much trouble. It means I have to dig an identical pit up here in CT, and then ship all the dirt down to you so you can fill up the hole. I'll do it if you split the freight, other- wise we'll have to find a commodities broker who deals in dirt (there are many) and time the trade accordingly. Why not just ship your hole"compressed"? Simply compress the air in the hole down into, let's say, a tiny black hole. The vacuum will cause your pit to collapse and fill in, and then then I can just hurl the black hole into the ground wherever I want to put your pit. I used to be illogical, but now I am just insane. Tom
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:39:44 -0500 (CDT) sean@........... writes:
[edited]
> Try to get a unit with southern hemisphere output, since down=20 there
> up is down, etc.
 
Not necessary since the earth rotates the "other" way down there.

> Speaking of holes, I have a used tiltmeter test pit 11 meters= =20 deep
> by 1 meter diameter in my back field that I would be willing = to=20
> donate to the first taker.
>
 
That's too much trouble. It means I have to dig an identical
pit up here in CT, and then ship all the dirt down to you so
you can fill up the hole. I'll do it if you split the freight, other-<= /DIV>
wise we'll have to find a commodities broker who deals in
dirt (there are many) and time the trade accordingly.
 
Why not just ship your hole"compressed"? Simply compress
the air in the hole down into, let's say, a tiny black hole. The
vacuum will cause your pit to collapse and fill in, and then
then I can just hurl the black hole into the ground wherever
I want to put your pit.
 
I used to be illogical, but now I am just insane.
 
Tom
Subject: Re: Plan 9 from outer space From: SW6079@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 02:51:15 EDT I have a portable hole that I purchased from a Mr. Wile E. Coyote, If you are interested. Mike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Plan 9 from outer space From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 00:17:05 -0700 At 11:51 PM 4/30/01 , SW6079@....... wrote: >I have a portable hole that I purchased from a Mr. Wile E. Coyote, If you >are interested. Mike. Now, THAT'S funny!! "JD" __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 02:47:46 -0500 In my case it would not be free, unless shipping to Mississippi for some unknown reason is free and I don't think everyone would want a box of snakes mostly just people into herpetology. as for the condition of the KS36000 life is a gamble, and as for calibration and setup the PSN seems to moving quickly toward a solution........ Bryan S Goss ----- Original Message ----- KS36000 From: To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: RE: KS36000 > I guess everyone would want a box full of snakes, if it was free. > Age, and electrical condition should be considered as well. > How do you align and calibrate this sensor. > Do you need an oil well drilling device to make the hole. > Is this an X - Y - Z, gimbaled sensor that requires a special calibrating > tool. > Who do I talk to, so I can sign up for my box full of snakes. > Victor > > -----Original Message----- > From: cochrane@.............. [SMTP:cochrane@............... > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:27 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Fw: KS36000 > > From Bryan Goss: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bryan & Regina Goss > To: Larry Cochrane > Cc: Bryan Goss > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:00 PM > Subject: Mail prob > > I tried to send this to you and the list but I can not using my > account bgoss@.................. I sent > you this email using bgoss@......... can you post > this on the mailing list wile I workout why I cant send anything to you > using my regular email account Thanks Bryan S Goss > > > > I would like to have or buy one of the KS36000 seismos I called Mr. > Hutt > with the USGS he said I was number 26 and I may not be able to get > one and > that he had request for more than one from some people. I would pay > shipping > or whatever If someone on the list is able to get extra unit Thanks > Bryan S. > Goss............ Corinth Ms > > I have been trying to send this message to the list, but I am having > some kind of trouble I would be willing to pay for part of the storage cost > if necessary or help in any way I could I really want one of the units I am > currently running one of Larry's a/d cards and a home built seismograph. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:38:39 -0700 United Airfreight quote from their web site for 2-day service. Assume 4/pallet @ 150 pounds each: 600 pounds, ABQ to DEN (Denver, CO) $147 600 pounds, ABQ to SJC (San Jose, CA) $185 600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 600 pounds, ABQ to SEA (Seattle, WA) $185 Now all we need is somebody to pick up the pallets and schlep them to the airport. Mark Robinson wrote: > > Doug Crice wrote: > > > > Clever. > > > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet could > > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand > > now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the > hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. > > regards all > > Mark > > (those would cost a little > > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread them > > around? > > > > Doug > > > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > > writes: > > > > Gentlemen: > > > [edited] > > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and is > > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > > > Tom > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: not to dismantle the KS36000 From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:17:32 EDT In a message dated 30/04/01, karlc@.......... writes: > Dr. Hutt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it > is about 500 pages. > Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside each individual sensor > might have been used to center the mass within its range? Hi there Karl, >>Do changes in the gas pressure with temperature inside the sealed sensors units compensate for expansion or changes in spring constants? [Dennis Recla] No, the sensor is internally compensated so that there are no changes. Once stable in a bore hole, there isn't much temperature change. > nside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to > provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier > electronics that connects via the downhole cable. The canisters can be > opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate, > all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to > top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long. >> I would be very hesitant indeed before trying to open one. The electronics is actually inside the sensor cans? [Dennis Recla] Yes, the compenstation circuits and the capacitive to voltage electronics are inside each canister. So, it looks as if the oscillator/demodulator signal conditioning circuits are inside the sealed sensor cans as might be expected. I presume that the electronics boards shown at the top of the main tube are the summing circuitry, output amplifiers, levelling controls and the power supply converters. It looks as if each sensor is hung on a spherical mounting which can be supplied with compressed air from the small pump to make it levitate, which levels the sensor. Remembering that these units may be 30 years old and the transistors may have been rated for a 10 year life (we tend to forget that valves had a 42 day rated life), it is possible that there could be some which are now a bit noisy as well as being of obsolete type. I wonder now if the USGS has any unwanted spare parts lying around....? Hope that this helps, Chris Chapman In a message dated 30/04/01, karlc@.......... writes:

Dr. Hu tt told me this morning that they have one technical manual, and it
is about 500 pages.   


Also, does anyone know if the helium pressure inside ea ch individual sensor
might have been used to center the mass within its range?


Hi there Karl,

>>Do changes in the gas pressure with t emperature inside the sealed sensors
units compensate for expansion or changes in spring constants?

[Dennis Recla]
No, the sensor is internally compensated so t hat there are no changes. Once
stable in a bore hole, there isn't much temperature change.


I
nside each sensor canister is the capacitive detector, and electronics to
provide an output which connects to the other internal amplifier
electronics that connects via the downhole cable. The canisters can be
opened, by heating the brass cups and pulling the cup from the top plate,
all are made from brass (at least the early ones were) and soldered cup to
top plate. Each one is about 4 inch in diameter and about 6 inch long.


>>      I woul d be very hesitant indeed before trying to open one. The
electronics is actually inside the sensor cans?

[Dennis Recla]
Yes, the compenstation circuits and the capac itive to voltage electronics are
inside each canister.

      So, it looks as if the oscillator/demodulator signal conditioning
circuits are inside the sealed sensor cans as might be expected. I presume
that the electronics boards shown at the top of the main tube are the summing
circuitry, output amplifiers, levelling controls and the power supply
converters. It looks as if each sensor is hung on a spherical mounting which
can be supplied with compressed air from the small pump to make it levitate,
which levels the sensor.

      Remembering that these units may be 30 years old and the transistors
may have been rated for a 10 year life (we tend to forget that valves had a
42 day rated life), it is possible that there could be some which are now a
bit noisy as well as being of obsolete type. I wonder now if the USGS has any
unwanted spare parts lying around....?

      Hope that this helps,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:33:53 -0400 >600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 should the need arise, I have access to a trailer capable of transporting the 600 pounds (up to 1000 lbs I think). people can either meet the pallet at Portland if they have the time or I have the ability to transport and store the pallet and people can make arrangements to pick them up (Farmington Maine, about 1 - 2 hour drive form Portland). if anybody in Portland or closer than me has the option, that would work also. A note. 600 lbs per pallet is probably a good estimate. probably when the time comes, a poll should be taken to see how many we have, and how many want one. that way they can be distributed better. Might I make another note. Mr. Hutt mentioned that people already have made claim to some of the units. This would tell me to only expect half of them to still be there. -Travis >From: Doug Crice >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping giant tubular objects >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 10:38:39 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB842DF00374004314BD864E0820C270; Tue May 01 10:52:35 2001 >Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (unverified [206.184.139.14]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 10:43:24 -0700 >Received: from georadar.com (adsl-216-103-89-147.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net >[216.103.89.147])by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id >KAA28014for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 10:39:59 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 10:53:53 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEEF49F.48646F93@............> >Organization: GeoRadar Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >References: <20010430.195111.-15789073.2.twleiper@........> ><3AEE0012.F9F83B36@............> <3AEE0F4D.8648F31@...............> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >United Airfreight quote from their web site for 2-day service. Assume >4/pallet @ 150 pounds each: > >600 pounds, ABQ to DEN (Denver, CO) $147 >600 pounds, ABQ to SJC (San Jose, CA) $185 >600 pounds, ABQ to PWM (Portland, Maine) $204 >600 pounds, ABQ to SEA (Seattle, WA) $185 > >Now all we need is somebody to pick up the pallets and schlep them to >the airport. > > >Mark Robinson wrote: > > > > Doug Crice wrote: > > > > > > Clever. > > > > > > I wasn't totally clear in my suggestion. I meant that one pallet >could > > > go to Denver, one to SFO, one to LAX, one to St Louis, etc. Perhaps > > > even one to Italy and one to New Zealand > > > > now you are talking .... 40.883 south 175.067 west ... I will dig the > > hole now. At last a proper use for cruise missile technology. > > > > regards all > > > > Mark > > > > (those would cost a little > > > more). Sooner or later, they're gonna get shipped, why not spread >them > > > around? > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:17:38 -0700 Doug Crice > > > > writes: > > > > > Gentlemen: > > > > [edited] > > > > > Standard air freight probably would be the least destructive and >is > > > > > often much cheaper than truck. > > > > > > > > That depends on what booster you use. With their rugged > > > > SS construction and built in inertial platform these sound like > > > > they would be perfect for sub-orbital delivery to anybody > > > > within a thousand miles. The key is to find some surplus > > > > JATO units and get down some test firings to determine > > > > trajectory, winds aloft and maximum range. > > > > > > > > Scotty, give me the coordinates. > > > > > > > > Tom > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- >Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com >19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 >Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:14 EDT In a message dated 5/1/01 4:45:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... writes: << And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). >> Hi All, Acting on Sean-Thomas's suggestion above, I called UPS to see what the story is. Yes, they can do it but not by the regular UPS Brown Truck service. They have a subsidiary, UPS Logistics, that ships big heavy stuff that regular UPS can't handle. To get a quote call 1 888 866 2329. They quoted $244 for 200 pounds by 2-day air from Albuquerque to Vernon, NJ where I live, about 90 km northwest of New York City. It will be delivered to my home. I don't have to go to the airport to pick it up, which is nice. There is a catch though (naturally). for them to pick it up it must be on a pallet so they can load it on a truck to take it to their air terminal in Albuquerque. UPS Logistics cannot put it on a pallet for you, unfortunately. Next I called "Mailbox, Etc" in Albuquerque, 505 792 0917 (ask for Jerry Beck). They quoted $125 to take a pallet to the USGS warehouse and strap my KS36000 on it and bring it back to their store where they have a contract with UPS. UPS Logistics will then pick it up from MailBox Etc and put it on their plane. So My free :-) KS36000 will cost me a mere $369 !!!. Well, it's only money, and the whole deal is arranged with my credit card. Considering what a fine instrument the Geotech KS36000 is I'm happy and grateful to Dr. Hutt for putting one aside for me. So......Is there anyone in the New York City Area who would like to share this pallet with me? If so, we can each have a free :-) KS36000 for about $200 each. There's plenty of room on the pallet for more seismos if there are others in the NYC area who are interested. I live on a farm so I can park the pallet in my barn until you come for yours. If you have a car that's too small for this beast I might be willing, with some arm twisting, to bring it to you in my pickup truck. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 23:07:00 -0400 would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? or would that require twisting both arms and legs? -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:14 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB8B656003A4004318BD864E08213290; Tue May 01 19:05:15 2001 >Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.5]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 18:56:12 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.ba.1333c5f2 (3950) for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 21:54:15 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 19:07:15 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/1/01 4:45:53 AM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... >writes: > ><< And has anyone looked into having UPS ship the KS36k? I forget how > long it is, but I used to ship bundles of 6 ft antenna parts, shovels, > etc. to the Aleutians by UPS; they were eventually carried by Reeve > Aleutian Air, as were 10 ft Rohn tower sections (by air freight). >> > >Hi All, > >Acting on Sean-Thomas's suggestion above, I called UPS to see what the >story >is. Yes, they can do it but not by the regular UPS Brown Truck service. >They >have a subsidiary, UPS Logistics, that ships big heavy stuff that regular >UPS >can't handle. To get a quote call 1 888 866 2329. They quoted $244 for 200 >pounds by 2-day air from Albuquerque to Vernon, NJ where I live, about 90 >km >northwest of New York City. It will be delivered to my home. I don't have >to >go to the airport to pick it up, which is nice. There is a catch though >(naturally). for them to pick it up it must be on a pallet so they can load >it on a truck to take it to their air terminal in Albuquerque. UPS >Logistics >cannot put it on a pallet for you, unfortunately. > >Next I called "Mailbox, Etc" in Albuquerque, 505 792 0917 (ask for Jerry >Beck). They quoted $125 to take a pallet to the USGS warehouse and strap my >KS36000 on it and bring it back to their store where they have a contract >with UPS. UPS Logistics will then pick it up from MailBox Etc and put it on >their plane. So My free :-) KS36000 will cost me a mere $369 !!!. Well, >it's >only money, and the whole deal is arranged with my credit card. Considering >what a fine instrument the Geotech KS36000 is I'm happy and grateful to Dr. >Hutt for putting one aside for me. > >So......Is there anyone in the New York City Area who would like to share >this pallet with me? If so, we can each have a free :-) KS36000 for about >$200 each. There's plenty of room on the pallet for more seismos if there >are >others in the NYC area who are interested. I live on a farm so I can park >the >pallet in my barn until you come for yours. If you have a car that's too >small for this beast I might be willing, with some arm twisting, to bring >it >to you in my pickup truck. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple KS36000 photos from Dennis Recla From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 21:40:07 -0700 Hi all, Dennis Recla graciously forwarded acouple photos of the KS36000 triaxial seismometer, that are now on the web for your viewing if you wish to see them. http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page062.html Thanks Dennis....its nice to see a view of the engineers and a closer view of the seismometer! Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Bill DiCarlo ka2qep@........... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 23:51:02 -0400 Hello, Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in Madison,(Northern) NJ. Regards' Bill DiCarlo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Nick & Sophie Caporossi nickcap@............. Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:03:34 -0400 Hi Bill: Yes I also picked up an event at about that time. The Lq wave got here at 02:27:01 utc I'm in Central NJ. It looks like the "P" wave was about 02:23:01 Nick At 11:51 PM 5/1/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > >Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in >Madison,(Northern) NJ. >Regards' > > >Bill DiCarlo >__________________________________________________________ > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: Stephen & Kathy mortskm@....... Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:17:58 -0700 Hi,, for some reason the lists are behind??? The world helicorder is about 7 hours behind?? http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm But, I do see what looks like long distant waves at a couple webicorders: http://www.geo.arizona.edu/saso/Earthquakes/Current/tuc_lp.html http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id= http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/heli/nm.MPH_LHZ_NM.2001050100.gif Keep your eye on the lists,,, it should show up eventually! Stephen PSN Station #55 near Pilot Hill Ca. 38.828N 120.979W Bill DiCarlo wrote: > Hello, > > Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in > Madison,(Northern) NJ. > Regards' > > Bill DiCarlo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 02:15:10 -0700 At 08:51 PM 5/1/01 , you wrote: >Hello, > >Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in >Madison,(Northern) NJ. >Regards' > > >Bill DiCarlo It can be seen on the following seismogram. Select Long Period or Long Periodx5 to see it best. Don't see it on any lists, yet. http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl "JD" __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: johnc c cole johnccole1@........ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 04:57:36 -0500 Good morning gentlemen Y es, I did receive the event at approximately 02:25:20 5/02/01 . I have four detectors running at 16 to 35 seconds . The 25 second machine did a little better than the others . My name is John C Cole in Pearland, Texas. If I have time, I will post it on Psn. jc ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> Hi Travis, Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design homebrew electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a soldering iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It sure will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:58:33 -0400 I may be able to go to RI, I will have to talk it over with my father (he owns a van, and a class B license for transporting high weight). The price is a bit over my budget so I will wait on it to see if others also use the pallet to cut the cost down. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB962D1002340043190D864E08212610; Wed May 02 07:21:14 2001 >Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.162]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Wed, 2 May >2001 07:12:19 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.3d.b199608 (4324) for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:27 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Wed May 02 07:22:00 2001 >Message-ID: <3d.b199608.28216f52@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? > or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> > >Hi Travis, > >Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it >part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons >lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to >design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design >homebrew >electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people >willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His >suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter >borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty >good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a >soldering >iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It >sure >will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! > >Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area >interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each >of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:13:30 -0400 at >http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm on the reading for station "IU/HKT, Hockley, Texas, USA", can somone tell me what is going on? it looks like someone was dooing line dancing on top of the sensor. -Travis >From: Stephen & Kathy >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Event recorded? earthquake at 02:25UTC 5/2/01 >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:17:58 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB8E738000D4004319DD864E0820C400; Tue May 01 22:34:33 2001 >Received: from smtp02.mail.onemain.com (unverified [63.208.208.73]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id > for ; Tue, 1 May >2001 22:19:44 -0700 >Received: (qmail 3021 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 05:17:52 -0000 >Received: from 216-224-143-87.thegrid.net (HELO jps.net) ([216.224.143.87]) >(envelope-sender ) by smtp02.mail.onemain.com >(qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 May 2001 >05:17:52 -0000 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 01 22:34:41 2001 >Message-ID: <3AEF9886.51CEFDFE@.......> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: ><3AEF8426.F3C4ECEA@...........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi,, for some reason the lists are behind??? The world helicorder is >about 7 >hours behind?? >http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.htm >But, I do see what looks like long distant waves at a couple webicorders: >http://www.geo.arizona.edu/saso/Earthquakes/Current/tuc_lp.html >http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id= >http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/heli/nm.MPH_LHZ_NM.2001050100.gif >Keep your eye on the lists,,, it should show up eventually! > Stephen > PSN Station #55 > near Pilot Hill Ca. > 38.828N 120.979W > >Bill DiCarlo wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Anyone else pickup this reading? (02:25UTC 5/2/01)I am here in > > Madison,(Northern) NJ. > > Regards' > > > > Bill DiCarlo > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 06:56:56 -1000 Hi, sorry to ask the question again, I really need to book my flights today or tomorrow. Is the meeting likely to happen. Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:14:37 -0700 Hi Ian, At this point I think the answer is no. I have only had three people reply. If we do have a meeting in the future, I'll make every effort to see that we give 60-90 day advanced notice. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:57 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th Hi, sorry to ask the question again, I really need to book my flights today or tomorrow. Is the meeting likely to happen. Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: dismantle the KS36000 ?? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:54:14 EDT In a message dated 30/04/01, sean@........... writes: > Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to avoid wind and > barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole > should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are > attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for > general teleseism detection. I think that the comment by R. Hutt that > some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise > levels above the original specifications. One would want to install > one and operate it to see just what the noise level is. Sure, but one factor which concerns me is that age of the transistors / microcircuits. I seem to remember that the best that you could get was a projected life of 10 years. These units could be quite a bit older. As a rough temperature guide, 1 m below the soil surface gets rid of most of the daily temperature variations. 10 metres gets a virtually constant all year temperature. I have the figures and equations somewhere, if anyone is interested. The diffusion equation gives an exponential dependance. > If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole > can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it, > (I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the > auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water). You may need to seal the top part of the tube to the surrounding soil fairly effectively. This stops heavy rain from running down the outside of the casing and drastically altering the temperature at the bottom. > You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The > tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing > (1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the > hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will > require some co-operation, and it may even be possible to pool resources > and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver. Apart from the pump and the three valves, there are at least two adjusting motors on each sensor that need to be controlled. Since it is a tri-axial sensor, individual parts of it would > be essentially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN > the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make > the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would > be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period. > A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer Dear Sean-Thomas, 1) The KS36K units have their max. sensitivity at 53 deg to the vertical. If you have all three sensors working fine, there should be no serious problems, should there? 2) Now supposing that you only have two working sensors. You can reinstall them for say E/W and W/E alignment. Shouldn't you be able to get the vertical sensitivity by just adding the signals, while the opposing E/W W/E movements would cancel? If you subtract the signals, the two V signals should cancel and the E/W W/E signals should now add? Wouldn't this give one standard horizontal and a vertical readout after scaling? I note that the internal frame is built in short sections bolted together. 3) If you are from a school or private individual and just want to 'record earthquakes', probably mostly teleseisms, does it really matter that your system is sensitive to both vertical and single axis horizontal waves? OK this is not 'reporting' standards with waveforms that can be looked up, but wouldn't it show the P and the S waves OK, possibly even rather better than a single axis Lehman? The quake signals that you receive may be partially reflected or scattered by local geological features anyway and so won't be 'pure'? While I agree that the units should not be disassembled if possible, I would be interested to hear your views on what alternatives can actually be achieved in practice, please? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 30/04/01, sean@........... writes:

Although the KS36K is designed for deep boreholes to av oid wind and
barometric deformation noise to allow maximum sensitivity, a shallow hole
should be adequate for the thermal stability (temperature changes are
attenuated by approximately the cube root of the depth) needed for
general teleseism detection.  I think that the comment by R. Hutt that
some components are "noisy" means that they still work but have noise
levels above the original specifications. One would want to install
one and operate it to see just what the noise level is.


       Sure, bu t one factor which concerns me is that age of the transistors
/ microcircuits. I seem to remember that the best that you could get was a
projected life of 10 years. These units could be quite a bit older.
      As a rough temperature guide, 1 m below the soil surface gets rid of
most of the daily temperature variations. 10 metres gets a virtually constant
all year temperature. I have the figures and equations somewhere, if anyone
is interested. The diffusion equation gives an exponential dependance.

If one wants to install and operate one, I think that a 10 ft borehole
can made with a bucket auger, with a tripod, rope and pulley to lift it,
(I have been able to go well over 10 meters by adding sections to the
auger pipe; not exactly straight, and sometimes hit water).


       You may need to seal the top part of the tube to the surrounding soil
fairly effectively. This stops heavy rain from running down the outside of
the casing and drastically altering the temperature at the bottom.

You can case the hole with a 10' length of schedule 80 ABS pipe. The
tripod, made with three 21ft lengths of chain fence corner post tubing
(1 1/2"dia) is also useful for lowering the intact instrument into the
hole. The limited availability of the installation test sets will
require some co-operation, and it may even be possible to pool resources
and do a collaborative effort in one area, like Denver.


       Apart fr om the pump and the three valves, there are at least two
adjusting motors on each sensor that need to be controlled.

Since it is a tri-axial sensor, individual pa rts of it would
be ess entially useless curiosities. It is designed to work IN
the borehole casing with the three U,V,W. sensors summed to make
the orthogonal outputs, as I and Dennis described. I think it would
be ill advised to "break it down", which would be to brake it period.
A single 53 deg. sensor is not a useful seismometer


Dear Sean-Thomas,

1)       The KS36K units have their max. sensitivity at 53 deg to the
vertical. If you have all three sensors working fine, there should be no
serious problems, should there?

2)       Now supposing that you only have two working sensors. You can
reinstall them for say E/W and W/E alignment. Shouldn't you be able to get
the vertical sensitivity by just adding the signals, while the opposing E/W
W/E movements would cancel? If you subtract the signals, the two V signals
should cancel and the E/W W/E signals should now add? Wouldn't this give one
standard horizontal and a vertical readout after scaling? I note that the
internal frame is built in short sections bolted together.

3)       If you are from a school or private individual and just want to
'record earthquakes', probably mostly teleseisms, does it really matter that
your system is sensitive to both vertical and single axis horizontal waves?
OK this is not 'reporting' standards with waveforms that can be looked up,
but wouldn't it show the P and the S waves OK, possibly even rather better
than a single axis Lehman? The quake signals that you receive may be
partially reflected or scattered by local geological features anyway and so
won't be 'pure'?

      While I agree that the units should not be disassembled if possible, I
would be interested to hear your views on what alternatives can actually be
achieved in practice, please?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:30:14 -0700 Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? PSN will only get one test/set/box. Bob Hutt wrote: > > > If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next > week, here is the information: > > The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is: > > US Geological Survey > 2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D > Albuquerque, NM 87102 > > Directions: Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks. > Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San > Jose). It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve. > > You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in > charge of the warehouse. His phone number is 505-242-8724. His cell > phone is 505-235-3366. Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are: > > John Abbott: 505-242-8728 > Vernon Stoup: 505-242-8730 > > But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up > anything. You can also try calling me if necessary: 505-462-3201. > > > Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD > Scientist-in-Charge > US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY > 801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 > ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > > Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) > Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) > FAX: (505)-462-3299 > Email: hutt@............... > Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > ===================================== Regards, Meredith Lamb Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in
Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email.  The warehouse is open
from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time.  If you picking up
a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of
requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals)....
outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others....
presumably already listed for such?  Suggest you email (or call)
now if their is a question/s on anything.  No mention was made
as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have?
PSN will only get one test/set/box.

Bob Hutt wrote:

 

If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next week, here is the information:

The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is:

US Geological Survey
2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D
Albuquerque, NM 87102

Directions:  Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks.  Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San Jose).  It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve.

You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in charge of the warehouse.  His phone number is 505-242-8724.  His cell phone is 505-235-3366.  Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are:

John Abbott:  505-242-8728
Vernon Stoup:  505-242-8730

But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up anything.  You can also try calling me if necessary:  505-462-3201.
 

Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD
Scientist-in-Charge
US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY
801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300
ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345

Telephone: (505)-462-3200  (main office no.)
Telephone: (505)-462-3201  (direct line)
FAX: (505)-462-3299
Email: hutt@...............
Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov
=====================================

Regards,  Meredith Lamb
 
  Subject: Re: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:00:31 -0700 Meredith -- Did Dr. Hutt say what day they will be available? I originally heard May 7, but then later heard there may be some delay. Thanks. Karl At 03:30 PM 5/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in >Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open >from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up >a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of >requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... >outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... >presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) >now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made >as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? >PSN will only get one test/set/box. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:15:45 -0400 I have started to realize I haven't the budget nor the transportation to pick up one of the units. I guess I will be stuck with my Lehman sensor that barely registers a car driving next to it (poor bearing points). The best of luck to the rest of you though. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Shipping the KS3600 by air (no rockets!!) >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:26 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCB962D1002340043190D864E08212610; Wed May 02 07:21:14 2001 >Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.162]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Wed, 2 May >2001 07:12:19 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.3d.b199608 (4324) for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:27 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Wed May 02 07:22:00 2001 >Message-ID: <3d.b199608.28216f52@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/2/01 4:13:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< would you bring it so far as Farmington Maine? > or would that require twisting both arms and legs? >> > >Hi Travis, > >Farmington, Maine is much too far. I might be willing, however, to bring it >part way and meet you near Providence, Rhode Island where one of my sons >lives. Let's wait to see what develops. I believe Sean-Thomas's offer to >design a homebrew tester to do the set up plus his promise to design >homebrew >electronics to get the KS36000 recording earthquakes will make more people >willing write to Dr. Hutt to request one of these "free" seismos :-) His >suggestion to use a post hole auger with extensions to drill a ~3 meter >borehole sounds good too. And his advice that a shallow borehole is plenty >good enough convinces me any PSN member who knows what to do with a >soldering >iron can have a seismic station almost as good as the USGS stations. It >sure >will be an improvement over my Lehman!!! > >Is there anyone else in the New York City or Providence, Rhode Island area >interested in sharing my pallet from Albuquerque? Sharing saves $$ for each >of us and makes the KS36k project affordable. > >Best regards, >Cap > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:43:03 -0700 Karl Cunningham wrote: > Meredith -- > > Did Dr. Hutt say what day they will be available? I originally heard May > 7, but then later heard there may be some delay. > > Thanks. > Karl > Hi Karl and others, I've no indication of anything to the contrary of the original schedule of from May 7th to the end of June for pickup. Unless he changes it, and someone comes forth, I've going to assume the schedule is remaining the same. I also noted the possible "delay" message....but if I remember right it was at a time when supposedly the units seemed to have more real possiblities of amateur operation, than the previous discouraging notes flying. Dr. Hutt probably got suddenly hit with all kinds of requests. I don't know for sure, but I think he may have meant to try to distribute the units more equitabily, as their was likely requests for more than one unit by single individuals. I originally put in a request for 3, but today I got "reduced" to one, which shows the volume of requests he's getting overall. I'd think that if there is no note past this coming Friday, that the schedule is still on for the beginning distribution date of May 7th. Its a wait and see as USGS can do as it wishes of course. Take care, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: VCO's From: "Tom Frey" tfreyis@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 00:24:19 -0700 I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled = Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' = telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be = very grateful for a shove in the right direction thanks tom tfreyis@........
I am trying to find a schematic or = source for=20 Voltage Controlled Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that = match with=20 Larrys' telemetry demodulator boards.  Does anyone have any = info?  I=20 would be very grateful for a shove in the right direction
 
thanks
tom
tfreyis@........
Subject: one KS36000 From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 02:37:53 -0500 Can someone pick up my KS36000 I was number 26 on the request list so I = assume I will get one. It would be hard for me to take off work at this = time I will pay for storage for a few weeks and your time Thanks Bryan = S. Goss can send reply to bgoss@.................. or bgoss@.........
Can someone pick up my  KS36000 I = was number=20 26 on the request list so I assume I will get one. It would be hard for = me to=20 take off work at this time I will pay for storage for a few weeks and = your time=20 Thanks Bryan S. Goss
can send reply to bgoss@.................. or = bgoss@.........
 
Subject: Re: VCO's From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 20:09:02 +1200 Heya Tom, A classic old chip which is pretty ideal for this stuff would be the XR2206. http://www.exar.com/products/xr2206 regards Mark > Tom Frey wrote: > > I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled > Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' > telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be > very grateful for a shove in the right direction > > thanks > tom > tfreyis@........ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VCO's From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 01:36:55 -0700 My telemetry board as one on it... -Larry > Heya Tom, > > A classic old chip which is pretty ideal for this stuff would be the > XR2206. > > http://www.exar.com/products/xr2206 > > regards > Mark > > > > Tom Frey wrote: > > > > I am trying to find a schematic or source for Voltage Controlled > > Oscillators with outputs in the audio range that match with Larrys' > > telemetry demodulator boards. Does anyone have any info? I would be > > very grateful for a shove in the right direction > > > > thanks > > tom > > tfreyis@........ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. From: "William B. Combs" bcombs@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 06:25:52 -0500 hey, all you guys that are going to Albuquerque, forget about the stinking seismographs, eat some green chiles for me. Some of you science guys would be murder if Best Buys were to have a sale on seismographs..... Bill Combs' wife in IN ( who won't be going to NM but would like to) -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of meredith lamb Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:30 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Directions/instructions in Albuquerque for those picking up directly. Directions/instructions for personal direct equipment pickup in Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt email. The warehouse is open from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain standard time. If you picking up a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have had a large number of requests and they can only give you one, (PSN individuals).... outside of Charles Patton or others picking up for others.... presumably already listed for such? Suggest you email (or call) now if their is a question/s on anything. No mention was made as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they have? PSN will only get one test/set/box. Bob Hutt wrote: If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself next week, here is the information: The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is: US Geological Survey 2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D Albuquerque, NM 87102 Directions: Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about three blocks. Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn left (east on San Jose). It will be on your right just after the gentle S-curve. You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person in charge of the warehouse. His phone number is 505-242-8724. His cell phone is 505-235-3366. Alternate phone numbers in the warehouse are: John Abbott: 505-242-8728 Vernon Stoup: 505-242-8730 But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up anything. You can also try calling me if necessary: 505-462-3201. Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD Scientist-in-Charge US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY 801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) FAX: (505)-462-3299 Email: hutt@............... Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov ===================================== Regards, Meredith Lamb
hey,=20 all you guys that are going to Albuquerque, forget about the stinking=20 seismographs,  eat some green chiles for me.  Some of you = science guys=20 would be murder if Best Buys were to have a sale on = seismographs.....  Bill=20 Combs' wife in IN ( who won't be going to NM but would like=20 to)
-----Original Message-----
From: = psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of meredith=20 lamb
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:30 PM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Directions/instructions in = Albuquerque=20 for those picking up = directly.

Directions/instructions for=20 personal direct equipment pickup in
Albuquerque from a Dr. Hutt=20 email.  The warehouse is open
from 7:30am to 4:00 Mountain = standard=20 time.  If you picking up
a seismo, Dr. Hutt states they have = had a=20 large number of
requests and they can only give you one, (PSN=20 individuals)....
outside of Charles Patton or others picking up = for=20 others....
presumably already listed for such?  Suggest you = email (or=20 call)
now if their is a question/s on anything.  No mention = was made=20
as to if all have been officially requested, but its my guess they = have?=20
PSN will only get one test/set/box.=20

Bob Hutt wrote:=20

 =20

If you decide you are going to pick up a seismometer yourself = next week,=20 here is the information:=20

The warehouse address here in Albuquerque is:=20

US Geological Survey
2611 Karsten Court SE, Suite D =
Albuquerque,=20 NM 87102=20

Directions:  Go south on Broadway from Gibson Ave about = three=20 blocks.  Just south of Grandma's Cafe (K&I Diner), turn = left (east=20 on San Jose).  It will be on your right just after the gentle = S-curve.=20

You will need to talk with Alvin Garcia, who is the USGS person = in charge=20 of the warehouse.  His phone number is 505-242-8724.  His = cell=20 phone is 505-235-3366.  Alternate phone numbers in the = warehouse are:=20

John Abbott:  505-242-8728
Vernon Stoup:  = 505-242-8730=20

But you do need to talk with Alvin Garcia before you pick up=20 anything.  You can also try calling me if necessary: =20 505-462-3201.
 =20

Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD
Scientist-in-Charge
US = GEOLOGICAL=20 SURVEY
ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY
801 UNIVERSITY = SE, SUITE=20 300
ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345=20

Telephone: (505)-462-3200  (main office no.)
Telephone:=20 (505)-462-3201  (direct line)
FAX: (505)-462-3299 =
Email:=20 hutt@...............
Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov=20 =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Regards, = =20 Meredith Lamb
 
 
Subject: current status of KS36000 requests From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:01:04 -0700 Dear PSN list, In a conversation with Dr. Hutt yesterday morning, we attempted to sort out how many units were being requested by PSN members. Following is the list as I understand it from Dr. Hutt, emails to Dr. Hutt, and postings on the PSN mail list: pcs name 2 Raul J. Alvarez ralvarez@........ can p/u himself 3 meredith lamb mlamb1@.......... can p/u himself 1 Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... can p/u himself 2 Bob Lewis relj@............... (himself and one friend) can p/u himself 2 Casper Hossfield CapAAVSO@............. help for p/u and shipping to Hewitt, NJ 07421 1 Jack Ivey ivey@................. help for p/u and shipping ? 1 Bryan Goss bgoss@........................ help for p/u and shipping 1 Charles Patton charles.r.patton@........ 1 Angel Rodriguez angelr@.................. help for p/u and shipping to Panama 0 Travis Farmer" travis5765@.................... request 5/3 due to potential cost of transport Additional omments: * There are 10 shipping containers as has been described, the rest of the units are strapped to pallets. * 13 units are missing the outside top connector. This connector is bolted on and plugs into another connector inside. This outside connector is the strong one used to maneuver the unit in and out of the borehole along with electrical connection. * Pick-up starts next week through the end of June. * Dr. Hutt has requests not only from the list above, but from universities and companies (willing to take them all.) He is giving some preference to the PSN list, but you need to make that known, but it appears now that he has enough requests that he won't give us extras just to store for some possible future need. So make your request now and identify yourself as a PSNer. * He will give one of the control boxes for PSN to share as they are only needed during setup. I will coordinate with Karl Cunningham on the units that can't be picked up by the requestors themselves If there are errors in the above list, please inform us immediately. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR From: "Tom Frey" tfreyis@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:25:08 -0700 Just retried it again with only 3 channels it works fine even at 200 = SPS. Still wont do 4, but three will work for now tata
Just retried it again with only 3 = channels it works=20 fine even at 200 SPS. Still wont do 4, but three will work for = now
 
tata
Subject: seismometer on ebay From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 15:37:27 -0400 Hi gang, I just started an auction on ebay (No. 1428527421) for a long-period horiz. (Sprengnether?) seismometer with a glass case. The auction ends 5/13. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: low power VCO From: sean@........... Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:56:42 -0500 (CDT) Tom, I can send you the schematic and artwork for the VCO that I designed that was used in the 55 USGS telemetry stations in New Madrid, the Aleutian network, as well as in Greece and Soviet Asia. At one time Sprengnether was producing it for us as part of the micropower Amp/VCO telemetry cannister. It is a micropower system (power about 0.5ma at +.- 4.05 volts) with active temperature compensation with the standard IRIG frequencies of 420, 680, 1020, 1360, 1700, 2040, 2720, 3060, and 3400 hz. It uses the VCO section of the micropower CD4046, and LM4250 op-amps. The output is a sine derived by an 8-step summation. Unfortunately the design is pre-web, and nothing has been scanned. The DC-DC converter design was published in BSSA long ago. "A 50-Milliwatt Power Converter to Replace Mercury Batteries in Seismic Amplifier/VCO Systems", Bull. Seism. Soc. Am., 72, ....... The whole telemetry cannister (same dia. but 3x as long as an L4-C seis) operates on 4 ma at 13 volts from the VHF transmitter battery. Some are still in use. If you send me an address, I can mail the info. If you only want one board, I can probably send you a blank ready to load. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:17:39 -0400 On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. Anybody else tried a setup like this? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:31:39 -0400 HI this is Randy from Toronto. This message is on behalf Tony Tony has a sprengnether long period vertical seismometer for free.. contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
HI this is Randy from = Toronto.
 
This message is on behalf = Tony
 
Tony has a sprengnether long period = vertical=20 seismometer for free..
contact Tony at  tonyfl@.........
 
Subject: Re: Seismometer From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:24 -0400 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JORD=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Seismometer HI this is Randy from Toronto. This message is on behalf Tony Tony has a sprengnether long period vertical seismometer for free.. contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JORD
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 = 4:31=20 PM
Subject: Seismometer

HI this is Randy from = Toronto.
 
This message is on behalf = Tony
 
Tony has a sprengnether long period = vertical=20 seismometer for free..
contact Tony at  tonyfl@.........
 
Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 17:00:14 -0700 Hi all -- I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I apologize, but please let me know ASAP. Rank Qty Name 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez 9 3 Meredith Lamb 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend 18 2 Casper Hossfield 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend 20 1 Bryan Goss 21 1 Charles Patton 24 1 Jack Ivey 27 1 Tony Potenzo To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of June. See his email at the bottom of this message. In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, myself, Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is disappointment and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. Karl The email from Dr. Hutt follows: >>Karl, >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now number >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. >> >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my >>overall list of everybody. >> >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list actually >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! >> >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in >>your station wagon due to the weight. >> >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. >>Regards, >>Bob Hutt >> >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez >>9. meredith lamb >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) >>18. Casper Hossfield >>24. Jack Ivey >>20. Bryan Goss >>21. Charles Patton >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it originally >>came in just before Raul's request. >>27. Tony Potenzo __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 23:22:10 -0700 Hi Travis, Your drawing looks excellent to me....it totally conveys the communication of the item description...the most important aspect. You must be a computer artist? I'am sure the approach has been checked on before in the PSN past emails. I've not heard of much success or satisfaction in that kind of physical adoption....the coil preferably needs more wire wraps than it has.....the more wire....the more the signal it can generate, to the amplifier and etc. It was nice to hear though, of someone doing some experimenting with available materials. Another item that "might" yield a coil, is perhaps some of these rechargeable items like toothbrushes etc. Adopting any particular coil to a magnet that will accomodate it is also sometimes kind of a challenge.....let alone all the other parts of a home brew seismo.....but it can be fun to try. Take care, Meredith Lamb Travis Farmer wrote: > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > -Travis > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 01:05:46 -0500 Here is my shipping address: Bryan S.Goss 73 Cr 119 Corinth MS 38834 Phone 1-662-287-5341 I can send you a money order for shipping cost and your time, gas or whatever. Please let me know what to send you and to what address. Thanks for your time I look forward to this project :> PS I would like to purchase a copy of the manual as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Cunningham To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:00 PM Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers > Hi all -- > > I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the > bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this > writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to > seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting > seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. > Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list > via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they > not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is > referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I > apologize, but please let me know ASAP. > > Rank Qty Name > 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez > 9 3 Meredith Lamb > 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend > 18 2 Casper Hossfield > 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend > 20 1 Bryan Goss > 21 1 Charles Patton > 24 1 Jack Ivey > 27 1 Tony Potenzo > > To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no > shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of > June. See his email at the bottom of this message. > > In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need > to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of > him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will > pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my > understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick > up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, myself, > Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles > and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is > ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone > has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. > > When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not > be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I > will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. > > I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make > copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. > > For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is disappointment > and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who > worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, > pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts > to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. > > Karl > > > The email from Dr. Hutt follows: > > >>Karl, > >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email > >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now number > >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of > >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. > >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the > >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. > >> > >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from > >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my > >>overall list of everybody. > >> > >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At > >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more > >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list actually > >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, > >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! > >> > >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 > >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without > >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 > >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in > >>your station wagon due to the weight. > >> > >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper > >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with > >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. > >>Regards, > >>Bob Hutt > >> > >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez > >>9. meredith lamb > >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) > >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) > >>18. Casper Hossfield > >>24. Jack Ivey > >>20. Bryan Goss > >>21. Charles Patton > >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the > >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it originally > >>came in just before Raul's request. > >>27. Tony Potenzo > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:13:03 -0400 Another option, assuming they are still available, would be one of those generators for phones. using just the armature and magnets, it should produce a good output. the one I have has what I am guessing to be about 10000 turns of 1/2 hair thick wire. As for the drawing, thanks for the complement. I figured it was a poor drawing. the magnets for it I found to be very powerful. sliding a screwdriver into the magnet slot and then pulling it out is with great difficulty. kind of makes you wonder though. how can they be this powerful, inside the drive, and not erase the data? -Travis >From: "meredith lamb" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. >Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 23:22:10 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBB8A2A007640043116D864E082131F0; Thu May 03 22:34:00 2001 >Received: from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (unverified [206.196.128.6]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id > for ; Thu, 3 May >2001 22:24:41 -0700 >Received: (qmail 98129 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 2001 05:22:59 -0000 >Received: from wdialup86.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (216.160.142.86) >by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 May 2001 05:22:59 -0000 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Thu May 03 22:34:28 2001 >Message-ID: <3AF24A92.A4E82D19@.........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi Travis, > >Your drawing looks excellent to me....it totally conveys the >communication of the item description...the most important aspect. >You must be a computer artist? > >I'am sure the approach has been checked on before in the PSN >past emails. I've not heard of much success or satisfaction in >that kind of physical adoption....the coil preferably needs more >wire wraps than it has.....the more wire....the more the signal >it can generate, to the amplifier and etc. It was nice to hear >though, of someone doing some experimenting with available >materials. Another item that "might" yield a coil, is perhaps >some of these rechargeable items like toothbrushes etc. >Adopting any particular coil to a magnet that will accomodate >it is also sometimes kind of a challenge.....let alone all the other >parts of a home brew seismo.....but it can be fun to try. > >Take care, > >Meredith Lamb > > >Travis Farmer wrote: > > > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided >moderate > > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component >and > > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking >about. It > > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I >got > > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > > > -Travis > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 06:24:33 -1000 I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy at just over $100. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:56:58 -0400 on the first line at about the 57 minute mark, it looks like somebody fell off a ladder or something. although by the time, I don't think they were at work. Did you fall out of bed? seems like something happened, it's a pretty big spike. -Travis >From: ian >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: new real-time display >Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 06:24:33 -1000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBC278A00C5400438A0D864E0820BBC0; Fri May 04 09:45:00 2001 >Received: from flex.com (unverified [206.126.0.13]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id >for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 09:26:20 -0700 >Received: from iasmith.com ([206.126.5.34])by flex.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with >ESMTP id f44GOZC11147for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 06:24:35 >-1000 (HST) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Fri May 04 09:46:56 2001 >Message-ID: <3AF2D7C1.20F897A3@...........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: ><3AF24A92.A4E82D19@.........> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. >Still >testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still >have >house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > >I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. >Looks >good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a >linux >system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little >pricy >at just over $100. > >Ian Smith > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:34:08 -1000 Hi, Normally I just dismiss these occassional spikes - I don't think I'm sleep walking! Your email has prompted me to look at the data though, see http://www.iasmith.com/spike.jpg It looks like it might be real. The frequency analyses shows it peaks around 4.5 Hz, which is the frequency spec of my geophone, so not a digitisation/amplification artifact. I'm only 20 miles from the worlds "most active" volcano, so it probably twitched, again. cheers Travis Farmer wrote: > on the first line at about the 57 minute mark, it looks like somebody fell > off a ladder or something. although by the time, I don't think they were at > work. Did you fall out of bed? seems like something happened, it's a pretty > big spike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:13:15 -0400 Ian Smith, Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to discover that it is on Hilo. 1. Location lat & lon 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. 3. Filter specs. Bob Barns ian wrote: > > I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still > testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have > house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > > I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks > good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux > system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy > at just over $100. > > Ian Smith > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Integrated circuit. From: "Al. Frielink" allink@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:13:52 -0400 To All, I am looking for a place to purchase some discontinued voltage controlled attenuators type MC3340. I have tried several surplus stores but have had no luck. Would appreciate any help. BFN Al. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 08:38:25 -1000 Hi, thanks for the suggestions. Actually I was thinking exactly the same thing myself. I'll add the changes over the weekend. Until today, this graph has anonymously lived on my pc screen, so I hadn't added useful things like those you mention, - 4.5 Hz, vertical geophone with 4 to 10 Hz band pass filter. Cheers Ian Smith BOB BARNS wrote: > Ian Smith, > Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info > would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to > discover that it is on Hilo. > 1. Location lat & lon > 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. > 3. Filter specs. > Bob Barns __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new real-time display From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 15:18:10 -0400 Hi Bob. Another question? Is it possible to hook up a laptop to my Lehman seis? I have an old Toshiba 486? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB BARNS" To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: new real-time display > Ian Smith, > Your real-time display looks very good but adding a little more info > would make easier to relate to other sites. I had to look around to > discover that it is on Hilo. > 1. Location lat & lon > 2. Type of sensor, geophone?, vert. or horiz?, period?. > 3. Filter specs. > Bob Barns > > ian wrote: > > > > I've just added a realtime image of my geophone graph to my web site. Still > > testing it, but seems ok so far, http://www.iasmith.com/realtime . I still have > > house construction nearby so the graph is a bit noisy during the day. > > > > I also just upgraded my system to redhat 7.1, painless, quick and free. Looks > > good. There is a product called vmware which can run windows within a linux > > system. Could be good for running psn software on linux systems. A little pricy > > at just over $100. > > > > Ian Smith > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:41:02 -0700 Travis I believe I have heard other people on the list say they were using coils from speakers. For my coils, I used #34 magnet wire (real thin copper wire with a transparent plastic coating, looks orange-reddish due to the copper) to wind my coils. I got a bunch of it from an electronic parts, ham radio supply store. I used a wooden dowel, kitchen countertop laminate from the hardware store, and brass bolts (non-magnetic) to create a coil form. The size of my coils was limited by the horseshoe magnet I was using. The coil width had to be less than the width of the magnet gap. The depth was practically limited by the possible motion through the gap towards the bottom of the U of the magnet. I was using a metal lathe for another project and one night I set it up to turn at a slow rate (I eventually sped it up to about 100 RPM). I mounted the coil form on a wood dowel in the lathe chuck. I put the spool of wire on a piece of pipe so it would turn freely. I put on some gloves to protect my fingers. As the lathe turned, I fed the fine wire through the gloves to keep enough tension for efficient wrapping and to direct where it was laid down. With my other hand I turned the reel of copper wire so that at no time was the full force placed on the wire. This approach worked pretty good. It required a couple of hours to wrap a coil, so over the course of a couple of nights I wrapped 2 or 3 of them. Even with so crude a wrapping mechanism, I found that moving the coil through the gap of the horseshoe magnet by hand generated as much as 1 volt on the output of the coil. This produces good results on the seismograph. If you are using a horseshoe magnet, part of the solution is to get a magnet with a gap large enough for a reasonable size coil. If this was any use to you, and you want more details (e.g. part details, supply sources), let me know. Ron Westfall -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer [mailto:travis5765@............. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:18 PM To: Psn-L Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. Anybody else tried a setup like this? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Integrated circuit. From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:57:07 -0700 Al, I don't know what your trying to do, but if you can make circuit modifications, you may be able to use an RCA device called out as a CA3080 and also an LM3080. Jameco sells them for penneys. They're in an 8 pin Dip package. Can find data on them at most data sheet web sites. Hope this helps. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:12:51 -0700 Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:31:49 -0400 Ron, Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by accelerating the spool. Bob "Westfall, Ron" wrote: > > Travis > > I believe I have heard other people on the list say they were using coils > from speakers. > > For my coils, I used #34 magnet wire (real thin copper wire with a > transparent plastic coating, looks orange-reddish due to the copper) to wind > my coils. I got a bunch of it from an electronic parts, ham radio supply > store. > > I used a wooden dowel, kitchen countertop laminate from the hardware store, > and brass bolts (non-magnetic) to create a coil form. > > The size of my coils was limited by the horseshoe magnet I was using. The > coil width had to be less than the width of the magnet gap. The depth was > practically limited by the possible motion through the gap towards the > bottom of the U of the magnet. > > I was using a metal lathe for another project and one night I set it up to > turn at a slow rate (I eventually sped it up to about 100 RPM). I mounted > the coil form on a wood dowel in the lathe chuck. I put the spool of wire > on a piece of pipe so it would turn freely. I put on some gloves to protect > my fingers. As the lathe turned, I fed the fine wire through the gloves to > keep enough tension for efficient wrapping and to direct where it was laid > down. With my other hand I turned the reel of copper wire so that at no > time was the full force placed on the wire. This approach worked pretty > good. It required a couple of hours to wrap a coil, so over the course of a > couple of nights I wrapped 2 or 3 of them. > > Even with so crude a wrapping mechanism, I found that moving the coil > through the gap of the horseshoe magnet by hand generated as much as 1 volt > on the output of the coil. This produces good results on the seismograph. > > If you are using a horseshoe magnet, part of the solution is to get a magnet > with a gap large enough for a reasonable size coil. > > If this was any use to you, and you want more details (e.g. part details, > supply sources), let me know. > > Ron Westfall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Travis Farmer [mailto:travis5765@............. > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:18 PM > To: Psn-L > Subject: Interesting sensor pickup. > > On my Lehman sensor I have been using a homemade coil that provided moderate > output. I seem to have stumbled across something that works even better. > >From an old (dead) hard drive, I pulled the head positioning component and > gave it a try. I drew up a (bad) picture of the piece I am talking about. It > can be viewed at http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/hd_sensor.jpg . > I rigged up a linkage to the seismo and gave it a slow 1"/sec swing. I got > an output of 0.026 V. the coil has a DC resistance of 18.1 Ohms. > > Anybody else tried a setup like this? > > -Travis > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:00:13 -0400 I have inquired and tried it. Most soundcards have a high pass filter set at 10 Hz. This means any frequency below 10 Hz is lost. -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of David russel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:04:43 -0400 What about the game port? Anybody know the stats? (resolution, ect...) I know the frequency can't be limited much because just moving the joystick is probably less than or equal 5 Hz. Any ideas? -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of David russel Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging then plotting it. Anyone ever done somth'in like this? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:31:39 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes: > I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with > the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of > about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your > computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging > Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes:

  ;      I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with
the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of
about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your
computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging
then plotting it.


      Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the
raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB
per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need
to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input
filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice
would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit
busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: readings.... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 19:30:36 -0700 Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Bob rwspahn@............. Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:06:15 -0500 Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital. A sound card can do frequency conversion. Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial port. Bob ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes: > > >> I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, >> with >> the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of >> >> about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your >> computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak >> averaging >> then plotting it. > > Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to > intercept the > raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files > of MB > per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level > would need > to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the > input > filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My > choice > would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a > bit > busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital.
A sound card can do frequency conversion.
Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial port. 
Bob

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 05/05/01, travis5765@............ writes:
 
       I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with
the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of
about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your
computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging
then plotting it.

      Sure you can do this in principle, but you would need to intercept the
raw digital data before it got recorded or you would end up with files of MB
per minute. You need just a few Hz for recording. The noise level would need
to be checked. Amplitude modulated carrier signals will get past the input
filter OK, so long as the carrier itself is >20 Hz and < 15 KHz. My choice
would be about 1 KHz. Processing the signal could keep your CPU just a bit
busy. Sounds to me like the hard way to do it.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 23:52:17 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, rwspahn@............. writes: > Why not just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you > could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems > worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital. > A sound card can do frequency conversion. > Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had > an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial > port. > Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow. If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming. Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy, you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 05/05/01, rwspahn@............. writes:

Why no t just FM it - with a voltage to frequency converter, assuming you
could get the resolution you are seeking. The old Qindar telemetry systems
worked like that and they worked well, before the days of digital.
A sound card can do frequency conversion.
Another idea, check the web for a program called "hamcom" I remember it had
an audio spectrum analyzer that used a zero crossing detector on the serial
port.  
Bob


      Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the
A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You
guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow.

      If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and
measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming.
Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy,
you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: "Mark Robinson" other@............... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:55:41 +1200 This high pass filter usually consists mainly of a small electrolytic capacitor in series with the input of the sound card. I can't see any reason that the capacitor cannot be shorted out (DC coupled, high end audiophiles love that) and perhaps the configuration of the rest of the input circuit tweaked somewhat to provide a cheap high resolution ADC. However, I have been completely too lazy and hopeless to figure out how to drive the thing from the software side. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Farmer" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 1:00 PM Subject: RE: Voltage controled attenuator/amp > I have inquired and tried it. > Most soundcards have a high pass filter set at 10 Hz. This means any > frequency below 10 Hz is lost. > > -Travis > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. > Behalf Of David russel > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:13 PM > To: PSN-L@.............. > Subject: Voltage controled attenuator/amp > > Al's inquirey about the VCA got me think'in again about of a method > of getting data from the s'smtr into the computer. > > I was wondering if it was possible to Amplitude Modulate, with > the seismometer signal, a carrier of an arbitrary audio frequency of > about 10Khz and input it into the SoundBlaster at the back of your > computer. Then doing something fancy with software like peak averaging > then plotting it. > > Anyone ever done somth'in like this? > > Casey > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:08:43 -0700 Hi Chris -- It's really not that hard. A long time ago I wrote a frequency measuring program for DOS in C that measured the output of an anemometer. It counted pulses over a one-second period, then waited for the next full pulse, then divided the total number of pulses received by the total time period over which they were received, to get frequency. This worked quite well and, using a microcontroller, was later made into a product that would measure frequency up to 50kHz. A microprocessor could pretty easily be made to do this same thing, making tabulations 20 times per second of an input carrier signal at, say 1kHz. The output could be via serial port or whatever. To get 16-bit resolution, 20Hz * 65536 = 1.3MHz clock rate on the microprocessor. You would also need a real-time clock. Quite feasible, I believe. One advantage of FM is that you can send the modulated carrier a long distance over noisy lines and reject much of that noise at the other end. The trick here may be to design a modulator that has the noise level / stability required. Karl Friday, May 04, 2001, 20:52:17, you wrote: Cac> Let me get this straight. You convert the signal to FM, you use the Cac> A/D to produce a digital signal, you then analyse this for frequency?? You Cac> guys DO like hard work! I can't see this competing with direct A/D somehow. Cac> If you convert to FM, you can programme your UART to count pulses and Cac> measure the frequency directly, but this requires low level programming. Cac> Having got the frequency, you convert to amplitude... To get 16 bit accuracy, Cac> you need.... And the links to hamcom don't seems to work anyway. Cac> Regards, Cac> Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: Jan Froom Froom@............. Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 09:10:59 +0000 You guys all sound like you work for IBM.... How to take something simple and make it horribly complex. The KISS principal is so much more elegant jAn __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: MC3340 From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 13:15:49 -0500 (CDT) Al, I just looked in last year's Newark catalog #117 and it lists the MC3340 on page 878 for $3.45 ea. Whether they actually have them ..... Try www.newark.com. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: coil/magnet info From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:34:37 -0500 (CDT) Regarding producing a suitable magnet and coil for a seismometer: Last year I described how I was making a powerful coil/magnet system for a new broadband instrument, using a rare-earth magnet assembly made with bought parts (for about $30) and a hand wound formless coil of 1200 turns. (#36 Beldsol wire about $5). The transducers all have a constant of about 10.5 Newtons/Ampere (Volts/meter/second). I have made about a dozen for the project so far. They are quite compact, and suitable for either a force feedback coil or a simple velocity transducer for a Lehman design. I can repeat the info if there is a need. I believe that several PSNers have successfully made several versions. The design certainly lends itself to simplicity and repeatability. A few comments though. A transducer's output has to be described in Newtons/Ampere or V/m/sec. Any coil/magnet will produce an infinite voltage if you move the coil fast enough. The force constant is easily determined by a simple balance setup, where the deflection caused by a test weight is balanced by controlling a variable current in the coil. Bob has suggested letting the wire wind off the end of the spool. I find that this twists the wire, causing potential management problems where the layers have to be formed very uniformly. I made a "dispenser" with a shallow box and dowel through the small (1/4 lb) spool, and a variable tensioner made by passing the wire through a post-it note pad, where various weights on top of it control the tension. The formless design requires that each coil layer be carefully laid up, so I turn the temporary form by hand. I may later clamp down a VSR drill to do the job, and control it with a footswitch and electronic brake. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:37:37 -0700 What the heck is the KISS principal ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 16:45:26 EDT In a message dated 05/05/01, ogzax@........ writes: > What the heck is the KISS principal ? > Keep It Simple Stupid! But don't Keep It Stupidly Simple? Regards, Chris In a message dated 05/05/01, ogzax@........ writes:

What t he heck is the KISS principal ?

      Keep It Simple Stupid!

      But don't Keep It Stupidly Simple?

      Regards,

      Chris

             
Subject: Re: Voltage controled attenuator/amp From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:16:46 -0700 E-Ghads ! I walked into that one ! Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: homebrew data logging program From: David russel ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:42:17 -0700 I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick Basic which is but a glorified three Channel oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to any thing. How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores impacting the sampling rate ? Is there an answer out there ? singed, anxiety's child Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: readings.... From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:12:21 -0500 Hello Kareem, I found that the book "Anatomy of Seismograms" by Oto Kulhanek to be a very clear and easy to read book about how to interpret seismograms. It's a bit pricey but that book increased my enjoyment of this hobby many fold. regards, angel Friday, May 04, 2001, 9:30:36 PM, you wrote: KLSJ> Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram KLSJ> and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic KLSJ> "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious KLSJ> that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of KLSJ> seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. KLSJ> Kareem Lanier KLSJ> www.HeyJooJoo.com KLSJ> __________________________________________________________ KLSJ> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) KLSJ> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with KLSJ> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe KLSJ> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 18:21:09 -0400 do you have a schematic for the circuit? i have a few of the ADC0808 chips (similar connection i think). -Travis >From: David russel >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L@.............. >Subject: homebrew data logging program >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:42:17 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDC18800684004319CD864E08209480; Sat May 05 14:54:22 2001 >Received: from m7.jersey.juno.com (unverified [64.136.16.70]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 5 May >2001 14:45:25 -0700 >Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for ><"ZENl8H70m13btokbG8N4Knklvtek3lp8Xyhf2QwIBxs="> >Received: (from ogzax@......... by m7.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id >F4P5C7GX; Sat, 05 May 2001 17:43:13 EDT >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 14:54:54 2001 >Message-ID: <20010505.144221.-235425.1.Ogzax@........> >X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.29 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-10,12-16 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit >convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. >It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in >the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick >Basic which is but a glorified three Channel >oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. >I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also >control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to >any thing. > > How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? >and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores >impacting the sampling rate ? > > Is there an answer out there ? > singed, anxiety's child > >Casey >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: using microcontroller for date aquasition and storage. From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:42:49 -0400 I have been looking at the National Semiconductor CR16MCS9 chip. It has an 8 bit 12 channel ADC. The processor is 16 bit RISC, 25 MHz, and up to 56 general purpose I/O pins. More info, datasheets, and Free samples (up to 5) can be found at http://www.national.com/pf/CR/CR16MCS9.html . Unfortunately I don't have skills in soldering micro circuit components so I haven't tried much yet. My idea is to build something that you can use with standard drives (floppy, hard, zip, tape, ect...) for data storage. There is an evaluation board for sale also. It is mounted with a PC-104 interface, rs232 (db9), and a few other features. As I am mainly just an idea man and rarely have the resources to do anything with them, I have brought it to the attention of you guys. The way I figure it, you can build something up so all you have to do is collect data every now and then (or run a very long rs232 cable to your computer) and just build the components into a weather sealed box. Then just leave it with the seismo. Any thoughts? Ideas? Volunteers to build one for me ;-) ? -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 15:56:02 -0700 Travis, I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: readings.... From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:02:05 -0700 Great. I'll look around for it. Thanks Angel. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Angel Rodriguez Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 3:12 PM To: Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo Subject: Re: readings.... Hello Kareem, I found that the book "Anatomy of Seismograms" by Oto Kulhanek to be a very clear and easy to read book about how to interpret seismograms. It's a bit pricey but that book increased my enjoyment of this hobby many fold. regards, angel Friday, May 04, 2001, 9:30:36 PM, you wrote: KLSJ> Can anyone suggest any books or good readings on how to read a seismogram KLSJ> and understand a geophone and its properties? I've read all of the basic KLSJ> "suspended-mass-and-earth-moving-in relation-to-it" books. But it's obvious KLSJ> that many or all of you are well versed in the readings and analysis of KLSJ> seismograms. So if anyone can offer sumptin' I'd appreciate it. KLSJ> Kareem Lanier KLSJ> www.HeyJooJoo.com KLSJ> __________________________________________________________ KLSJ> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) KLSJ> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with KLSJ> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe KLSJ> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: coil/magnet info From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:12:30 EDT In a message dated 5/5/01 8:40:33 PM GMT Daylight Time, sean@........... writes: << Last year I described how I was making a powerful coil/magnet system for a new broadband instrument, using a rare-earth magnet assembly made with bought parts (for about $30) and a hand wound formless coil of 1200 turns. (#36 Beldsol wire about $5). >> Sean-Thomas, Could you please post the directions again for making your powerful coil/magnet system and how to wind the formless coil. I would like to try making one and probably others would be interested in how to make one too. Thanks very much, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:40:38 -0400 travis5765@............ (my hotmail.com kills attachments for some reason) -Travis >From: Casey Crane >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: homebrew data logging program >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 15:56:02 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDD42E00AE4004311DD864E0820F1D0; Sat May 05 16:13:52 2001 >Received: from m7.jersey.juno.com (unverified [64.136.16.70]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Sat, 5 May >2001 15:59:10 -0700 >Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for ><"ZENl8H70m13btokbG8N4Kmy/7/utumU9aGRmJWq/AeE="> >Received: (from ogzax@......... by m7.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id >F4P9LEWD; Sat, 05 May 2001 18:57:05 EDT >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 16:15:46 2001 >Message-ID: <20010505.155605.-232021.0.Ogzax@........> >X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.29 >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Travis, > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the >delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? > > >Casey >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:57:33 -0700 All, I have been seeing a lot of "thank you" type messages as will as others type of messages that should only be sent to the originator, not to the whole list. Please only use the list if you have something all, or most of us, will be interested in. Sending "thank you" type messages just clogs up the list. Travis, sending attachments is not allowed on this list. I recently modified the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN > Travis, > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the > delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: interpreting seismograms From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:00:38 -0500 (CDT) Kareem, The definitive text is a USGS (then dept of Commerce, later NOAA) publication "The Principles of Interpreting Seismograms". It is about 100 pages, and has pockets that contain large travel-time graphs for events at various depths. I don't have the publication details here at home. If you need them, I will get them. About a year ago someone on the PSN net was providing copies at cost. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:27:13 -0700 Thank you larry. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: ian ian@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 15:37:22 -1000 > I recently modified > the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. quite understandable. It would be useful if there could be an ftp area we could up-load images to for others to view with a browser. Anything older than say a week or 2 could be purged. Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:44:38 -0700 Apparently some people can't follow directions.....Just for the record people who do not follow the list rules will be blocked for posting messages. The list rules are documented here http://www.seismicnet.com/joinpsn.txt. This text file was sent to you when you subscribed to the list. I'm also including it with this message. -Larry List Rules: 1) Keep all posts as short as possible and to the point. (I only have a certain amount of bandwidth to send out email messages) 2) If you are including words from someone else's post (that you are referring or responding to), do NOT include more than a line or two of that post... we have already seen what they wrote. When replying, please edit out the following message appended to each outgoing PSN-L message: __________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message: unsubscribe PSN-L 3) Do not send personal messages through the list. - post to the list if you think your information would be beneficial for everyone to read (this is how we all can learn) - post directly to the individual if it is a personal note, an "I agree with what you said" or "Thank you" type notes. 4) Do not send "me too's", "I agree's" or such to the list (it just wastes my bandwidth and other peoples time). 5) Do NOT send computer virus warnings (such as the "good times" virus) to the list; these are spams and not true (again, don't waste our time "warning" us of these) 6) Send only TEXT messages to the list. Do not include any attachments, HTML tags (this is referring to HTML code not links), or so forth. If you have a picture, or other binary type files to share with the group, you can uploaded when using FTP to ftp://ftp.seismicnet.com/info. See below for more information. 7) ALWAYS treat everyone here with respect and post with professionalism. Any abusive, sarcastic, or berating behavior on the list will be cause for list suspension and will not be tolerated. Please report any occurrences of this to the listowner (cochrane@................ 8) This list is closed meaning only list members can post to the list. This is done to prevent spammers from sending messages to the list. When you post to the list the From: address must match the address you used when subscribing to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Crane" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read > Thank you larry. > > Casey __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:51:58 -0400 I’m not the one trying to post attachments. I was the one saying that if I need to give access to a file, rather than attaching it, I upload it to a temp directory on my web server and provide a link to it. I do this for the same reason you don't allow attachments to be posted. not only does it clog the list but those who don't won’t or need the file don't have to download it. -Travis >From: "Larry Cochrane" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >Subject: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 17:57:33 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCBDEFCA0069400437AAD864E082053F1; Sat May 05 18:11:41 2001 >Received: from sys1 (unverified [66.92.4.81]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for >; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:59:05 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sat May 05 18:13:13 2001 >Message-ID: <066001c0d5c7$8c3eada0$51045c42@sys1> >References: <20010505.155605.-232021.0.Ogzax@........> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >All, > >I have been seeing a lot of "thank you" type messages as will as others >type >of messages that should only be sent to the originator, not to the whole >list. Please only use the list if you have something all, or most of us, >will be interested in. Sending "thank you" type messages just clogs up the >list. > >Travis, sending attachments is not allowed on this list. I recently >modified >the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. > >Regards, >Larry Cochrane >Redwood City, PSN > > > > Travis, > > > > I've tried to send an attachment with my E-mail thru PSN but the > > delivery system kicks it back "undeliverable" what's your e-mail addr ? > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:52:36 -0700 Ian, I can do this, but people would have to use an ftp user/password that I send them to get into my system. This would only be needed for the upload. The directory would be open of read by ftp and the web server. I can't leave a directory open for write using the anonymous account. It wouldn't take long before someone looking around on my system to discover the open for write directory and start using it for their own purpose. I don't have the time right now to set it up but I will added it to my to do list. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Attachments and the number of posts to this list - please read > > I recently modified > > the list parameters so messages containing an attachment are rejected. > > quite understandable. It would be useful if there could be an ftp area we could > up-load images to for others to view with a browser. Anything older than say a > week or 2 could be purged. > > Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The Very Broadband Beam-Balance Tiltmeter From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:14:40 -0700 Sean-Thomas, Checked your website for the new tiltmeter design. Hope you can be "prodded enough", to get more text and PICTURES, LOTS and LOTS of PICTURES thereon....ha. http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/abstracts.html Are you using the same speaker type feedback mechanism as you do on your vertical seismometer design or is it via the copper wire coils you've mentioned making very recently, or something else? Could such a tiltmeter electronically or by computer program somehow eliminate tilt "noise" from other broadband horizontal seismometers outputs/seismograms somehow? Thanks, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: new additions to list From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 13:50:15 +1000 hi all, the latest set of additions and updates to the maps and database.... thankyou for sending in ur info would like to take this opportunity to welcome the mew members to the PSN... I hope u find ur time with the group very rewarding Travia Farmer USA Jean-Claude Roches Switzerland Randall Pratt USA -------------------------- Wayne Abraham thanks for the updates Bob Barns likewise and sorry for missing u out in the last updates i missed ur email, my apologies Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 00:00:56 -0700 Hi all, A note from Dennis Recla: I noticed that there was some renewed interest in seismic analysis on the PSN email. If anyone wants to email me, so I can reply to them, I'll send out the PDF file (Adobe) of: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) prepared by the Laramie Analysis Facility Personnel (April 1960). I still have it on the computer here and can email it to anyone who is interested. Its about 1.5meg in size. The email address is: recla@.......... Regards, Dennis Recla Thanks Dennis, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: VBB-BB Tiltmeter info From: sean@........... Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 01:45:02 -0500 (CDT) Meredith and co., Re. info on the Very Broadband Beam-Balance Tiltmeter: the VBB-BBT: I'm glad you found the AGU/SSA abstract on my web site. The poster was presented at the April SSA meeting by Mark Meremonte of the USGS in Golden, since I was unable to attend the meeting. Unknown to me, Mark assembled the poster in the lobby of the USGS building so as to see what it looked like. Had I known about it, I would have emailed you to go have a look. Mark has scanned the poster pages, and I will find out if they can be posted on my site. He is an avid digital photographer, and somehow I would like to get him to document the details of the new instrument. I completed a 70 page preliminary technical report last fall. Unfortunately none of it is HTML compatible (the text is unix nroff, and the figures are from old versions of Mathcad and Autocad). The compact coil/magnet system was designed for the feedback coils of this beam balance tiltmeter; two are used, one at each end of the beam, to maintain an absolute symmetry of forces about the center of rotation. The abstract explains the principle of its operation. Since the VBB-BBT is insensitive to horizontal acceleration, which a horizontal seis senses, its output will only be the tilt noise of the pier environment, which a horizontal seis is also sensitive to, especially at long periods. So with identical tilt sensitivities, the signal from the VBB-BBT can be subtracted from that of the broadband horizontal seis, leaving only the true seismic signal of interest. The VBB-BBT signal must be digitized and processed identically to the broadband seismic signal. Regards, Sean-Thomas I will review the info on the bought magnet and the coil construction and post it tomorrow. I also have a box flexure design for the BBT that I also used to make a compact (10" long) horizontal broadband seis as a companion to a compact version of the the leaf spring vertical. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 02:28:11 -0500 I have an Anonymous FTP site the PSN list can use for now for uploading or sending files without bogging down Larrys server It is my personal web domain I will allow up to 400 meg of info at any one time and I will purge the data once a month it is www.1goss.com ftp using just that and use Anonymous to login. If you want to leave something permanent just ask it will prob be ok Larry if you want to mirror any files you have you can. Thanks Bryan S Goss __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: VBB-BB Tiltmeter info From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 09:38:40 -0700 sean@........... wrote: > > > The abstract explains the principle of its operation. Since the VBB-BBT > is insensitive to horizontal acceleration, which a horizontal seis > senses, its output will only be the tilt noise of the pier environment, > which a horizontal seis is also sensitive to, especially at long periods. > So with identical tilt sensitivities, the signal from the VBB-BBT can > be subtracted from that of the broadband horizontal seis, leaving only > the true seismic signal of interest. The VBB-BBT signal must be digitized > and processed identically to the broadband seismic signal. I maybe presumptive on this, but it sounds like a seismic station would likely need two of the VBB-BB's, one for each direction orientation of a "companion" normal BB horizontal seismometer? This leads up to the question of whether your tiltmeter is indeed direction sensitive which I presume it is? This sounds like a very good "noise filter" which would give a much clearer seismic picture with alot of better implications for professional installations and researchers. No wonder Dr. Hutt with USGS wanted you to pursue it with vigor! > > > Regards, > Sean-Thomas > > I will review the info on the bought magnet and the coil construction > and post it tomorrow. I also have a box flexure design for the BBT that > I also used to make a compact (10" long) horizontal broadband seis as a > companion to a compact version of the the leaf spring vertical. That should be very interesting also; its always nice to read of leading edge material that inspires advancements; as you are the only real instrumentation authority (teacher)that PSN benefits from. Thanks, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Anonymous account did not work. From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 00:35:32 -0500 =20 I was unable to create an ftp account like I wanted, for people on the = psn list to submit files, manuals, and info, ECT, however I did create = an account that will work. 1. Go to the ftp program you use and type in www.1goss.com as the sight = you will be connecting to then use psn as username and psn as the = password when you get in you should see a folder called WEB put your = files, pictures or whatever in this folder. 2. To view your files with your web browser or to send a link to = someone such as the psn-List go here and click on your file http://www.1goss.com/users/psn If you have any questions just drop me a line at : = bgoss@..................  

I was=20 unable to create an ftp account like I wanted, for people on the psn = list to=20 submit files, manuals, and info, ECT, however I did create an account = that will=20 work.

 1. Go=20 to the ftp program you use and type in www.1goss.com as the sight you will be = connecting to then use psn as username and psn as the password when you = get in=20 you should see a folder called WEB put your files, pictures or = whatever=20 in this folder.

 2. To=20 view your files with your web browser or to send a link to someone such = as the=20 psn-List go here and click on your file

http://www.1goss.com/users/psn

If you have=20 any questions just drop me a line at : bgoss@..................

 

 Subject: the true life is out there From: "inanc karaman" inakara@......... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:55:34 +0300 -----Original Message----- From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM To: inakara@......... Subject: failure delivery Message from yahoo.com. Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox Giving up on 66.92.4.80. --- Original message follows. Return-Path: Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 X-Apparently-From: From: "inanc karaman" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: Mariotti Mauro mariottim@............ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:06:25 +0200 Ahahahahaha!!!!!!! At 18:55 07/05/2001 +0300, you wrote: > > >Return-Path: >Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 >X-Apparently-From: >From: "inanc karaman" >To: >Subject: >Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >Importance: Normal > >you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to >do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. >cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:14:16 -0400 So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? inanc karaman wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > To: inakara@......... > Subject: failure delivery > > Message from yahoo.com. > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > : > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > --- Original message follows. > > Return-Path: > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > X-Apparently-From: > From: "inanc karaman" > To: > Subject: > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > Importance: Normal > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: bc bruce@....... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:36:37 -0400 Just someone with WAY to much spare time. :) At 01:14 PM 05/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? > >inanc karaman wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > > To: inakara@......... > > Subject: failure delivery > > > > Message from yahoo.com. > > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > > > : > > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > > > --- Original message follows. > > > > Return-Path: > > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > > X-Apparently-From: > > From: "inanc karaman" > > To: > > Subject: > > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > > Message-ID: > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-9" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > > Importance: Normal > > > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >-- > >--------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- > * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * >Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. >internet bobsmith5@........ 9900 Lumlay Road >landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 14:27:25 -0400 sounds like he thinks all we do is sit around watching a seismo. As for seeing the "real life", I do allot of mountain biking. About 15 - 20 miles a day. would that be considered real life? -Travis >From: bc >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: the true life is out there >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:36:37 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC02B5C001440043252D864E082045B0; Mon May 07 10:50:22 2001 >Received: from oga.com (unverified [209.95.104.166]) by sys5.webtronics.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id >for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 10:41:05 -0700 >Received: from bc.oga.com (h00a0cc3df6b5.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.40.72])by >oga.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03965for ; >Mon, 7 May 2001 10:37:01 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon May 07 10:50:49 2001 >Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010507133552.01de6780@.......> >X-Sender: bruce@....... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >In-Reply-To: <3AF6D7E8.699D8A88@........> >References: >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Just someone with WAY to much spare time. :) > >At 01:14 PM 05/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>So does anybody understand what this crap is about?????????? >> >>inanc karaman wrote: >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... >> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM >> > To: inakara@......... >> > Subject: failure delivery >> > >> > Message from yahoo.com. >> > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). >> > >> > : >> > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. >> > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox >> > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. >> > >> > --- Original message follows. >> > >> > Return-Path: >> > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) >> > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 >> > X-Apparently-From: >> > From: "inanc karaman" >> > To: >> > Subject: >> > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 >> > Message-ID: >> > MIME-Version: 1.0 >> > Content-Type: text/plain; >> > charset="iso-8859-9" >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >> > Importance: Normal >> > >> > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing >>else to >> > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. >> > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. >> > >> > _________________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > _________________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> >>-- >> >>--------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- >> * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * >>Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. >>internet bobsmith5@........ 9900 Lumlay Road >>landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 >>__________________________________________________________ >> >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >>To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:45:50 EDT In a message dated 4/28/01 3:08:52 PM GMT Daylight Time, danieo@............ writes: << I hope you get the free seismometer. It sounds like a good deal to me. >> Hi Danie, Yes, I did manage to get one. In the end so many people wanted one that only 7 went to PSN members and I was one of them. The others went to universities and others. They are a very nice instrument so a lot of people wanted one. It remains to be seen how many people will get one going and recording earthquakes. I will try mine out standing in the yard before thinking about boreing a hole for it. I didn't go to the AAVSO meeting this past weekend due it costing a lot of $$ and nothing of interest to solar people was planned. I checked the list of those who registered and there were no Solar Division people listed. No use spending a lot of money to go to such a meeting. I built a seismograph here in Florida using your idea of balancing a mass on a ruler as a spring. I use a plasterers trowel with the handle removed. This gives a tempered spring 14-inches long and 4-inches wide. I mounted it vertical and bent it down so the free end is horizontal. A lead weight puts the 90 degree bend in it. It has a free period of about 1 3/4 seconds. It's damped with a sheet of copper between some radio shack flat magnets. I only recently managed to get Alan Jones's Amaseis downloaded and set up and working so have only been recording two days. I am recording on a dedicated computer, an old 486 PC that I bought for $90 at a hamfest. I had trouble with drafts creating big signals but just got that fixed today. I covered it with a cardboard box to keep the drafts out and it seems to work quite well. The acid test will be can I record an earthquake. I'm waiting for a big one to see what happens. Hope all is well with you and your health is improving and you are getting lots of Southern Hemisphere variables for Janet. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: interpreting seismograms From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:03:54 EDT Sean-Thomas, I would be grateful for any info. on these publications as I am sure would Kareem. Regards Ian Extinction is the last step! Sean-Thomas,

I would be grateful for any info. on these publications as I am sure would
Kareem.

Regards
Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:15:34 -0700 Greetings, With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any heavy equipment like my refrigerator. Thanks, -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Interesting sensor pickup. From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:41:45 -0700 Hi Bob I had thought of that, but I was concerned about introducing a twist into the wire. I don't know whether the twist would accumulate over time, but the wire is so fine that any twisting force causes it to form loops, etc. Even at the fairly slow pace of 100 RPM, I did not want to take the chance of snarling up the wire, or worse yet, breaking it. By the way, the lathe I was using had a treadlebar off switch down near the floor. By stepping on it, the lathe stops very quickly. This is real handy if a snarl does start to form. I ended up using it a couple of times when things started to get out of hand. If anybody else is thinking of power winding coils, a fast off switch is a real useful feature to incorporate. Ron -----Original Message----- From: BOB BARNS [mailto:roybar@......... Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:32 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. Ron, Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by accelerating the spool. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:54:32 -1000 Capstone seems to have some very interesting products. Not sure what power capacity they start at. See http://www.capstoneturbine.com/distributor/index.asp Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: homebrew data logging program From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:26:58 -0700 Casey There are three (possibly more) strategies for servicing hardware periodically and performing housekeeping at the same time. The method you choose will depend on the capabilities of Quick Basic and/or what operating system capabilities can be accessed using Quick Basic. 1) Design all housekeeping operations so they are very short duration. If need be, break longer operations up and use a variable to record progress (e.g. 1 = step A completed, 2 = step B completed, etc.). The goal is to ensure that each housekeeping operation is rather shorter in duration than the 50 milliseconds between A/D readings. To read from the A/D you need to read the system's clock. Calculate the absolute value of the clock when you next want to take an A/D reading. When this value is reached, perform an A/D reading. Do not use a delta value since the last reading, as this will introduce drift and error. Whenever the program is not performing housekeeping, it sits in a loop checking the clock. The loop will also contain a check to see if any housekeeping operations need to be performed. Whenever a housekeeping operation, or step, is completed, check the clock. If housekeeping operations result from a check in the loop, the clock check at the end of the operation will be automatically done when the program returns to the loop. 2) If by some remote chance, Quick Basic supports "threads", you can avoid chopping up your housekeeping operations. In case you are not familiar with threads, a thread is like having a separate computer to execute code. If you use two threads, its like having two computers. The operating system transparently shares the real computer between the two threads. You can also use "processes", but threads are preferable for your application, because variables are shared between the two threads whereas they are not shared between two processes. One thread would sit in a tight loop watching the clock and performing A/D operations every 50 ms. The other thread would perform housekeeping operations. Because the operating system automatically switches execution between threads periodically, the second housekeeping thread can execute software that takes as long as it wants to perform operations. 3) PCs have a real time clock that I believe can be programmed to generate an interrupt periodically. When the interrupt occurs, an interrupt service routine is called. There is probably an operating system call to register a routine of yours as the interrupt service routine. Beware though, interrupt service routines are finicky. If the real time clock can only be programmed to generate one interrupt 50 ms. in the future, it can always be programmed for the next interrupt in the interrupt service routine. Again, avoid drift by taking the difference between the current time and the desired time to program the next interrupt. Once the interrupt routine is set up to run every 50 ms., the main program can perform housekeeping. If you are new to programming, I recommend method 1 to you. Its simple. Life gets progressively more complicated as you advance through methods 2 and 3. On the other hand, as the interval between A/D readings decreases (e.g. more than 20 samples/sec or more than one channel), methods 2 and 3 become increasingly necessary. There are nuances to all three of these methods that I have left out for the sake of brevity (hah!). If you get further along and you are running into trouble, drop me a line. Ron Westfall -----Original Message----- From: David russel [mailto:ogzax@......... Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 2:42 PM To: PSN-L@.............. Subject: homebrew data logging program I've just completed an AtoD convertor using the ADC0809 eight bit convertor chip. I can address it and do data in/out from the Lpt1 port. It all works out Ok as electronics is my forte' but I'm a little weak in the programming department. I've come up with a program written in Quick Basic which is but a glorified three Channel oscilloscope. It uses PSET and LINE statements to graph it all out. I also have routines to scale the data from the ADC input and also control the horizonal sweep speed. The speed however is not calibrated to any thing. How do I go about taking a reading twenty times a second ? and do all the other program house keeping without these other chores impacting the sampling rate ? Is there an answer out there ? singed, anxiety's child Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 20:23:33 -0400 Ron, I wound a 12,000 turn coil using #36 (0.005") wire. This is about 7,300' of wire (3,000 ohms). The coil form had a core about 1.5" in diameter by about 1" wide. Plexiglass sides were attachted to the core. The winding depth turned out to be about 0.5". The wire was guided back and forth by my fingers (gloves). There was no problem with the twist accumulating. It took 10-15 mins. (est.) to wind which would be about 1,000 rpm. The lathe was started and stopped with its regular switch. Bob "Westfall, Ron" wrote: > > Hi Bob > > I had thought of that, but I was concerned about introducing a twist into > the wire. I don't know whether the twist would accumulate over time, but > the wire is so fine that any twisting force causes it to form loops, etc. > Even at the fairly slow pace of 100 RPM, I did not want to take the chance > of snarling up the wire, or worse yet, breaking it. > > By the way, the lathe I was using had a treadlebar off switch down near the > floor. By stepping on it, the lathe stops very quickly. This is real handy > if a snarl does start to form. I ended up using it a couple of times when > things started to get out of hand. If anybody else is thinking of power > winding coils, a fast off switch is a real useful feature to incorporate. > > Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOB BARNS [mailto:roybar@......... > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:32 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Interesting sensor pickup. > > Ron, > Winding a coil using a lathe (or any other means of spinning the coil > form) is easier if you put the spool of wire on the floor. Stand the > spool on end so that the wire comes off the end. This means that the > spool does not need to turn, i.e., no tension is placed on the wire by > accelerating the spool. > Bob > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 20:30:11 -0600 Dear Sir: You have offended both the Tron God AND the Blottobear- Suggest you seek a constructive path for your bad karma.... DL inanc karaman wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: MAILER-DAEMON@......... [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@.......... > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:49 PM > To: inakara@......... > Subject: failure delivery > > Message from yahoo.com. > Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). > > : > 66.92.4.80 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox > Giving up on 66.92.4.80. > > --- Original message follows. > > Return-Path: > Received: from unknown (HELO neo) (212.253.71.203) > by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 15:48:44 -0000 > X-Apparently-From: > From: "inanc karaman" > To: > Subject: > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:53:06 +0300 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-9" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > Importance: Normal > > you idiots, you are just a group of useless people and have nothing else to > do, except this idiot seismo-boxes. > cant you see you just have to go outside and see the real life. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @......... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: the true life is out there From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:39:41 -0700 Inanc has been removed from the PSN-L list. If you have any comments, as I did, please send it directly to him/her. -Larry > Dear Sir: > > You have offended both the Tron God AND the Blottobear- > Suggest you seek a constructive path for your bad karma.... > > DL > > inanc karaman wrote: [snip] __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:37 -0500 Hello Larry, I have a 1500 watt inverter / charger and 4 GC4 batteries which add up to 440 amp hours of power. I can run 4 computers / hubs / radios and what not for about 15 - 20 hours depending on what's on. It switches fast enough when the power goes out that the computers don't notice. (less than 30 milliseconds). No noise at all angel Monday, May 07, 2001, 5:15:34 PM, you wrote: LC> Greetings, LC> With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been LC> thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a LC> small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit LC> should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, LC> DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any LC> heavy equipment like my refrigerator. LC> Thanks, LC> -Larry Cochrane LC> Redwood City, PSN LC> __________________________________________________________ LC> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) LC> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with LC> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe LC> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:26:04 -0400 You can build a battery backup fairly simply. just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the wattage you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots of power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries from the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops when the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. -Travis >From: Angel Rodriguez >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: Larry Cochrane >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:37 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC0AECF00AC40043263D864E08206380; Mon May 07 20:11:18 2001 >Received: from chiriqui.com (unverified [200.46.20.3]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Mon, 7 May >2001 20:02:23 -0700 >Received: from 200.46.18.67 ([200.46.18.67])by chiriqui.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) >with ESMTP id WAA24463for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 22:59:20 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Mon May 07 20:11:42 2001 >X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.51) Educational >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Message-ID: <67450196908.20010507220037@............> >In-Reply-To: <0ac901c0d743$415d2d20$51045c42@sys1> >References: <0ac901c0d743$415d2d20$51045c42@sys1> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hello Larry, > >I have a 1500 watt inverter / charger and 4 GC4 batteries which add up >to 440 amp hours of power. I can run 4 computers / hubs / radios and >what not for about 15 - 20 hours depending on what's on. It switches fast >enough when the power >goes out that the computers don't notice. (less than 30 >milliseconds). > >No noise at all > >angel > > >Monday, May 07, 2001, 5:15:34 PM, you wrote: > >LC> Greetings, > >LC> With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been >LC> thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend >a >LC> small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt >unit >LC> should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, >hubs, >LC> DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any >LC> heavy equipment like my refrigerator. > >LC> Thanks, > >LC> -Larry Cochrane >LC> Redwood City, PSN > > >LC> __________________________________________________________ > >LC> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >LC> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >LC> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >LC> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >-- >Best regards, > >Angel > >www.volcanbaru.com > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: SW6079@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:06:23 EDT Hi Larry, Just adding my two-bits worth here.... If you want something really quiet,. Honda makes the quietest in my experience. They tend to be pricey though. Try garage sales etc. You will pay about 12 to 25 cents a watt for a Honda. Roughly 60 percent of that for a cheaper (and noisier) brand. All produce a good sine wave these days. Be sure to check the actual voltage before plugging anything in BTW, I have seen some as much as 20 percent high!! You can adjust the governor to change this easily in most cases. Good luck, Mike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SEISMOMETERS From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:27:27 EDT __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Ken Navarre kjn@....... Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:36:02 -0700 > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a > small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit > should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, > DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any > heavy equipment like my refrigerator. Having had my share of generators in the 350 watt - 12 Kw range I think I'm a fairly good source of experience on this subject. For years I was on "a quest" for the quietest backup generator. For my purposes an inverter was not the sole answer. I use a 600 watt inverter in my motorhome for backup power during "quiet hours". As for generators I settled on the Honda line of generators, despite the bright red color which is kind'a hard to camouflage, due to the excellent sound baffling they use. For 90% of our energy use in the motorhome a small Honda EX-650 worked great. It was small, fairly light (60 lbs) and would power the satellite system, TV, charge the batteries, run the lights and the laptop seismic system for about 6 hours on less than 1/3 gallon of fuel. The Generac, Coleman, and crap sold at Costco should be reserved for contractors who are working on someone else's home and aren't concerned about ticking off our neighbors. They are fairly cheap but have zip for baffling. I've had them all and sold them well below cost just to get rid of them after running them for a short period of time. Due to the noise issue I even considered tossing them in the ocean as a public service! Honda entered the "ultra quite" market last year with their EU series generators. I bought one of the EU-1000i before they were cleared for use by the infinitely wise California Air Resources Board. The problem: the engine used in the EU series inverter/generator was the same as that used in the Honda gardening equip. But since the generator is stationary the engine was NOT approved for that use... Didn't matter that the emissions & fuel consumption was the best in the market... Do you suppose that CARB has anything to do with CAL ISO??? Anyway, the EU-1000i has a 12 volt alternator (if I recall correctly) that drives a 110 VAC inverter instead of a 110VAC generator. It simulates a full sine wave very well as evidenced by the way that it runs my computers & monitors on "field day". It weighs only 29 lbs with a full load of .6 gallons of gas. It is only 18"x10"x15" and is VERY quiet! Something like 55 db @ 25 feet. It does have one issue that the EX series didn't have. I could run a microwave oven for a short period of time with the 110 VAC generator. The inverter/generator is more sensitive to overloads and trips immediately whereas the generator would handle a brief overload. It has an "eco-mode" that turns the output of the generator to the minimum required by lowering the rpm of the engine. The inverter still outputs 110VAC even under the lower input voltage. It's way cool! Cost of the EU1000i (1000 watts rated - probably only about 800 in reality) is just under $700. It's a bit more pricey than the EX-650 and the straight 1000 watt (EX-1000) generator. I was by a shop last week and I see that Honda has released a 2kw model called (oddly enough) EU-2000i. It's just a tad heavier, bigger, nosier than the EU-1000i but is still very "neighborhood friendly". I also have the 3Kw EU-3000i to backup the home systems now that California has become one of the largest third world nations on the planet because of wonderful foresight on numerous people's parts (but that gets us off the topic of generators...). Basically, the EX- 650 is very quiet and has a full 650 watt ac generator. It is fuel efficient and luggable. The EX-1000 is a bit bigger and not quite as quiet but neither unit will piss off your neighbors even if you run it at night. The EU-1000i/2000i/3000i is a bit more expensive, a bit more fickle if you tend to overload it, and the quietest units around. I get 7 - 8 hours of runtime on 1/2 gallon of fuel with a 75% load on the 1000i. The EU-1000i is a nice unit. I bought mine off the Internet from Mayberry Sales in New Jersey and they paid the shipping and I had no CA tax. Check out www.mayberrys.com and compare prices with your local Honda dealer... The 3000i is 30% - 40% more expensive than than a comparably sized ac generator but it is MUCH quieter and a bit lighter - don't let someone walk off with it... Keep under lock & key or chained to a large dog! Ken Navarre __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 05:19:06 -0700 > Hi Larry, Just adding my two-bits worth here.... If you want something > really quiet,. Honda makes the quietest in my experience. They tend to be > pricey though. . You will pay about 12 to 25 cents a > watt for a Honda. All produce a good sine wave these days I have had 12 years experience running computers with generators here in the wilderness. The modified sine waves from Yamaha and Honda are "ok", but they do eventually , say 2 years tops, ruin the power supplies of the computers. Also note that a UPS inline will modify the problem of brownouts with generators. After years of replacing power supplies I switched to my solar which by that time had come enough online to handle the whole cabin. First it was much more quiet. Second, it never ruined a power supply. I still run my system on solar. It has its own solar. Three Arco panels and 2 100 amp hour deep cycle Johnson gel cells. And I don't have to worry about gasoline or carbon byproducts AND the property smells still like the pine forest it is instead of exhaust:-) Bob Shannon __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 08:26:40 -0400 Larry -- Back in '98 I built a whole-house diesel electric system (30kW). I run everything including two heat pumps, (with the aux strip heaters disabled). During my search I looked closely at the fuel type problem: 1. Gasoline - Forget it except for little portable units that you drain down after each run and fill with fresh gas each use. Gasoline quickly destabilizes and forms 'varnish' that clogs everything. Gasoline is also very dangerous to store. Max storage time; 6-12 months. 2. Diesel - Fuel oil will remain stable for up to 5 years with an additive to prevent wax formation. Relatively safe (the reason that Diesel power is preferred by all serious power boaters). 3. Propane - An ideal fuel. Taking a gasoline engine and converting to a propane carburetor, you give up about 10% of available power. Propane in a bottle gas tank will store practically indefinetly. 4. Natural Gas - Basically the same as Propane but has even lower available energy. You give up an additional 10% power over Propane. Often you can get connected to local gas mains and have a near infinite supply. Small generators in the 3,000W to 12,000W can be picked up for a song after the Y2K fiasco. Search the internet, goto Home Depot(I saw a gas unit at the local store recently), etc. Check out eBay. Search for Generac. INSTALL A PROPER TRANSFER SWITCH. You can kill a lineman before you even know anything is wrong. Feel free to email if you have further questions. Bob Smith Larry Cochrane wrote: > > Greetings, > > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone recommend a > small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a 2500-3000 watt unit > should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, monitors, hubs, > DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to power any > heavy equipment like my refrigerator. > > Thanks, > > -Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: the true life is out there From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:02:32 -0500 Hello Mauro, I would like to get two more a/d cards and two amp cards from you. If possible I would like to get the cards assembled and tested but if you don't have the time, which I can understand, I would like to get all the parts to make the boards. I know from past experience that when a project has more than one or two parts that is anything out of the ordinary then I order from the USA and then one little part is on back order and the project is not possible. I as said earlier I will sending you as soon as I get it a "cash card" that you can use in any cash machine. You can then withdraw the amount you need directly from my account here in Panama. No waiting, no transfer fees at your end or my end. Please let me know. Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: the true life is out there From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:03:31 -0500 Hello Everyone, Sorry that last message went to everyone, it was meant for Mauro. angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Available Seismometer From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni@........ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:07:34 -0400 Hi Gang....just thought I would let you know....there is a Seismometer = up for auction on ebay. (item # 1428527421). Ed.
Hi Gang....just thought I would let you = know....there is a Seismometer up for auction on ebay. (item #=20 1428527421).
 
Ed.
Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:37:28 EDT In a message dated 07/05/01, cochrane@.............. writes: > With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been > thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Dear Larry, The solar/battery inverter units will start up instantaneously and there will be no brownout or supply failure, but the power that you can get is limited by your battery capacity. A motor generator is fine if you know when you are going to get problems and can start it in good time. Otherwise you get a supply failure for a couple of seconds while it starts on automatic. You need a reasonably good sine wave or an approximation to run switch mode power supplies for computers etc. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 07/05/01, cochrane@.............. writes:

With a ll of this talk about blackouts here in California I have been
thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator.


Dear Larry,

      The solar/battery inverter units will start up instantaneously and
there will be no brownout or supply failure, but the power that you can get
is limited by your battery capacity. A motor generator is fine if you know
when you are going to get problems and can start it in good time. Otherwise
you get a supply failure for a couple of seconds while it starts on
automatic. You need a reasonably good sine wave or an approximation to run
switch mode power supplies for computers etc.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT Hi Travis, I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V DC output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains came back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to convert it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on my Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't start. I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't start. How can I get it running again? Best regards, Cap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << You can build a battery backup fairly simply. just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the wattage you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots of power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries from the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops when the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. -Travis >> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:53:10 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > Hi Travis, > > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages or build a small PC board or maybe even a breadboard to do the job. and everything would have to be regulated very well. If you do get an inverter (IMHO the best way to go, you may find yourself eventually using it for other neat things like an Oshram maplight for night work on the keyboard!) ....Make sure the inverter is a quality brand such as Trace or Heliotrope. Both are excellent and the slight extra price makes all the difference. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:26:26 EDT In a message dated 08/05/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes: > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Hi there Cap, You can. You will need +5, -5, +12, -12 and maybe other voltages, some at several amps. Building your own PSU is quite a task. However, Keypower sell complete battery PSUs for 12, 24 & 48 V, see http://www.keypower.com/dcdc.htm The next question is what supplies does your VDU use? A good quality 'sine wave' 120 V inverter could be your most satisfactory choice. > Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on > my > Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't > start. > I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't > start. How can I get it running again? Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. Do you have any 'prickers' for kerosene stoves / old vapourisers? However, before you do this, have you checked the gap on your spark plug and that it does have an energetic spark when you pull the starter cord? If the engine does have a contact breaker, oxidised contacts over winter are a likely problem (some engines don't use them). Cleaning with a 'points file' is satisfactory, if you can get at the points. You sometimes have to take the flywheel off to get at them... Gives the service agencies something to do. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 08/05/01, CapAAVSO@....... writes:

I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system.
What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V
AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power,
how can I just run it from the 12V batteries?


Hi there Cap,

      You can. You will need +5, -5, +12, -12 and maybe other voltages, some
at several amps. Building your own PSU is quite a task. However, Keypower
sell complete battery PSUs for 12, 24 & 48 V, see
http://www.keypower.com/dcdc.htm

      The next question is what supplies does your VDU use? A good quality
'sine wave' 120 V inverter could be your most satisfactory choice.

Also another question, does anybody know how I can clea n the carburetor on
my
Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't
start.
I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't
start. How can I get it running again?

      Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge
and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean
Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber
components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. Do you
have any 'prickers' for kerosene stoves / old vapourisers? However, before
you do this, have you checked the gap on your spark plug and that it does
have an energetic spark when you pull the starter cord? If the engine does
have a contact breaker, oxidised contacts over winter are a likely problem
(some engines don't use them). Cleaning with a 'points file' is satisfactory,
if you can get at the points. You sometimes have to take the flywheel off to
get at them... Gives the service agencies something to do.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: SEISMOMETERS From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:47:41 EDT huh? huh? Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:58:47 EDT In a message dated 05/08/2001 12:00:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, earth@........... writes: << Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages >> Hi Bob, If I went into my computer and measured the voltage where it comes out of the power supply, would this be the voltage I would need to run from my batteries? If this turned out to be more than 12 Volts could I then hook, say four deep charge marine batteries in series-parallel to make a 24 volt battery power supply. Then suppose the computer needed say 15 volts. Could I not then use a voltage regulator chip to reduce the 24 Volts to 15 Volts or whatever? Assuming this could be done I could then use two automatic shut down 12-Volt battery chargers, one on each pair of the four above, to accomplish my purpose which is to have a system totally immune to California-type blackouts? I like the idea of not being dependent on relays or stuff like that to switch over when the power grid fails. Thanks, Bob, for your helpful ideas, especially how to get my Honda generator going again. I will try your system and let you know how I make out. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 11:15:18 -0700 Hi Bryan -- As of last night, your seismometer is here in San Diego. They look nice, but can't tell at all what they're like inside. I also got one test set / controller, to be passed around to those who want to use it. I'm not sure what all it does, but looking at the switches, it is apparently used to lock and unlock the seismometer masses, to level them, do calibration, and verify operation. More than that, I really don't know as there are no manuals yet. I think I'll hang on to the test set / controller until the manual comes and I am able to make a bit more sense out of it. There is a packing outfit (Chandler Packaging) that my company uses, and I will take the seismometer today and get a quote. I'll let you know what they say. I don't have much of a feel for what kind or how much shock-absorbing packing they should use -- I don't know what kind of handling to expect from shipping companies, and I don't know how much the seismometers will stand. I'll ask the packaging company for recommendations. Do you have a preference on a shipper? Do you want air (quicker) or ground (cheaper)? I'll ask the packing company if they have a recommendation, but otherwise I'll look at what other people on the PSN list have suggested. As soon as these things are nailed down, I should be able to get it to the packager within a day. Dr. Hutt didn't have any manuals ready when I was there. He said he would mail one out to me as soon as he gets some printed. He seemed pretty busy, so I'd guess it may be a week or two. Best regards, Karl At 01:05 AM 5/4/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Here is my shipping address: > > Bryan S.Goss > 73 Cr 119 > Corinth MS 38834 > >Phone 1-662-287-5341 > > >I can send you a money order for shipping cost and your time, gas or >whatever. Please let me know what to send you and to what address. Thanks >for your time I look forward to this project :> PS I would like to >purchase a copy of the manual as well. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Karl Cunningham >To: >Cc: >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:00 PM >Subject: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers > > > > Hi all -- > > > > I spoke this morning with Charles Patton and Dr. Hutt. Sorry to be the > > bearer of bad tidings. Due to the large number of requests (90 as of this > > writing), Dr. Hutt has been forced to limit the number of seismometers to > > seven for the entire PSN. Here is the list of PSNers requesting > > seismometers, along with the number requested and where they stand in Dr. > > Hutt's overall list of requesters. Dr. Hutt called after sending the list > > via email and asked that people be allotted only one each, and that they > > not be allowed to request one for a friend. Dr. Hutt's email to me is > > referenced at the end of this message. If anyone has been left out, I > > apologize, but please let me know ASAP. > > > > Rank Qty Name > > 3 2 Raul J. Alvarez > > 9 3 Meredith Lamb > > 5 2 Bob Lewis includes one for a friend > > 18 2 Casper Hossfield > > 19 2 Karl Cunningham includes one for a friend > > 20 1 Bryan Goss > > 21 1 Charles Patton > > 24 1 Jack Ivey > > 27 1 Tony Potenzo > > > > To Jack and Tony: Dr. Hutt mentioned that there is the possibility of "no > > shows", in which case he will offer any remaining ones toward the end of > > June. See his email at the bottom of this message. > > > > In speaking to Charles this morning, the limited quantity reduces the need > > to only one vehicle, and we decided that I would make the drive instead of > > him. As it stands, I will be driving to Albuquerque on Sunday and will > > pick them up from the USGS warehouse Monday morning. It is my > > understanding that Raul, Meredith, and Bob are making arrangements to pick > > up their own. My plan is to pick up four seismometers, for Casper, >myself, > > Bryan, and Charles, and bring them back to Southern California. Charles > > and I will pack and ship Casper and Bryan's units to them. I hope this is > > ok with Casper and Bryan, for whom I plan to get a seismometer. If anyone > > has a different rendition of the situation, please let me know. > > > > When picked up, Dr. Hutt needs assurance that these seismometers will not > > be resold, and will have each person sign a statement to that effect. I > > will request that of Casper and Bryan also, when we ship their units out. > > > > I will work with Dr. Hutt to get the 500-page technical manual and make > > copies available at cost for anyone who wants one. > > > > For those who didn't get what they wanted, I'm sure there is >disappointment > > and hope there is not hard feelings. My sincere thanks to everyone who > > worked on this, contributing to efforts to pick them up, dismantle them, > > pack them, ship them, and much more. I also appreciate Dr. Hutt's efforts > > to fairly distribute these instruments to those who can use them. > > > > Karl > > > > > > The email from Dr. Hutt follows: > > > > >>Karl, > > >>Actually, Tony Potenzo did contact me - I just hadn't read all my email > > >>when you called. (His email came from a Donna Whitaker.) He is now >number > > >>27 on the overall list of 29 requestors. There have been a number of > > >>Universities and others that have requested up to 15 instruments each. > > >>None of these groups is getting more than 5, at least for now. But the > > >>number of requests is for around 90 instruments. > > >> > > >>Anyway, I have labelled your list of PSNers in the order I heard from > > >>them, including the one from Tony. The number is their ranking on my > > >>overall list of everybody. > > >> > > >>The list below adds up to requests for a total of 12 seismometers. At > > >>this point I am only willing to let the PSN group have 5. Maybe more > > >>later depending on how many of the requesters higher on the list >actually > > >>show up. I am going to give them a deadline of 30 June 2001. After that, > > >>it will truly be first come, first served - whoever shows up! > > >> > > >>We weighed one of the seismometers. It actually weighs 170 lb., not 150 > > >>as I had originally estimated. They are 92 inches long. The ones without > > >>the top connector neck on them are only 87 inches long. (There are 13 > > >>like that.) I don't think you would want to put more than 5 of them in > > >>your station wagon due to the weight. > > >> > > >>Please confirm whether or not you would be picking up the one for Casper > > >>Hossfield. So far he has told me that he is making arrangements with > > >>Mailboxes Etc and UPS for packing and pickup. > > >>Regards, > > >>Bob Hutt > > >> > > >> 3. Raul J. Alvarez > > >>9. meredith lamb > > >>19. Karl Cunningham (requested one for a friend too) > > >>5. Bob Lewis (requested one for a friend too) > > >>18. Casper Hossfield > > >>24. Jack Ivey > > >>20. Bryan Goss > > >>21. Charles Patton > > >>**Angel Rodriguez - Angel withdrew his (her?) request after seeing the > > >>amount of effort involved with installing one of these, but it >originally > > >>came in just before Raul's request. > > >>27. Tony Potenzo > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:42:23 -0500 Hello CapAAVSO, I have some 12v AT computer power supplies. I now you can also get ATX. I don't have the ;URL but if you want it I can try to find it. angel Tuesday, May 08, 2001, 10:24:31 AM, you wrote: Cac> Hi Travis, Cac> I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. Cac> What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V Cac> AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, Cac> how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:59:12 EDT In a message dated 05/08/2001 1:32:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. >> Thanks Chris, I took the carburetor apart last fall after putting in a new spark plug and making sure it produced a spark when I pulled the start rope. The carburetor parts are home on the bench in a small pan. I am now in Florida for the winter but will fly home on 16 May and try your idea using paintbrush cleaner and some # 5 piano wire I have which is 0.15 mm diameter. I can probably get it clean enough with the piano wire so that Bob Shannon's system of priming with gas in the spark plug hole will get it running again. Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter. This is easier than priming it with gas in the spark plug hole and the Starting Fluid is readily available at auto parts stores. People like me who never owned a new car and drive old ~$300 secondhand pickup trucks (disposable transportation:-) always have a can of starting fluid in the tool box. If it won't start on either it ain't gonna go!! Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:35:29 -0700 Cap -- In a computer, the majority of the power consumed is at 5 volts. As an indication, a 200W AT power supply I have has the following output rating: +12V 8A -12V 0.5A +5V 23A -5V 0.5A Dropping a 12-volt battery to 5 volts with a linear regulator feeding 10 amps would dissipate 70 watts in the regulator alone -- more than what's required to power the entire computer. A switching supply is necessary to gain any savings over an inverter. And the 12-volt nominal battery voltage would probably have to be regulated before feeding it to the computer's 12-volt line. All in all, this is no small task unless you're in the power supply business. Regards, Karl At 11:24 AM 5/8/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations / standby power From: "Al Allworth" allworth@.............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:39:59 -0700 I think the easiest way to get standby power is to buy a UPS unit and modify it. Remove the battery(s) and put a connector on the back for external battery. Some are 12 volt and the larger ones need 24 volts. You might need to add additional cooling fans inside where the batteries were for continuous operation. Some of the UPS units I have used got pretty hot by the time the batteries ran out and they were evidently designed so that they ran out of power just before they melted down. A UPS would take care of the switchover when the power goes off. I have a 250 watt UPS that I put Binding Posts on the back so I can add more battery capacity when needed. It uses 12 volts. I also have a 650 watt UPS that uses 24 volts.The smaller one is sine wave and has an internal fan and thermal protection. The larger one has NO fan and would need one for continuous operation. It does have a thermal cutout which would shut it down when it gets too hot. Both of them have light bar meters to monitor the battery voltage. Large RV batteries rated for deep cycle are reasonably priced and can be found at places like Walmart __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:37:28 -0400 Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:21:20 -0400 More than 12VDC? In a computer? What have you got for a computer? -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of bobshannon.org Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:53 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > Hi Travis, > > I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V > AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, > how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Might be a small task as some sections use more than 12VDC. You would have to use a 12VDC Altimium stepup transformer with proper windings for various voltages or build a small PC board or maybe even a breadboard to do the job. and everything would have to be regulated very well. If you do get an inverter (IMHO the best way to go, you may find yourself eventually using it for other neat things like an Oshram maplight for night work on the keyboard!) ....Make sure the inverter is a quality brand such as Trace or Heliotrope. Both are excellent and the slight extra price makes all the difference. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:24:13 -0400 > Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter this is one of the main causes of varnish. Just thought I would let you know. -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of CapAAVSO@....... Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:59 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Generator recommendations In a message dated 05/08/2001 1:32:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: << Probably with some difficulty! The inside gets coated with brown gunge and the jets tend to block up. You can clean out the carb with Brush Clean Fluid / Methylene Chloride, but do wear PVC gloves. Remove any rubber components first. You may have to get some really fine stiff wire. >> Thanks Chris, I took the carburetor apart last fall after putting in a new spark plug and making sure it produced a spark when I pulled the start rope. The carburetor parts are home on the bench in a small pan. I am now in Florida for the winter but will fly home on 16 May and try your idea using paintbrush cleaner and some # 5 piano wire I have which is 0.15 mm diameter. I can probably get it clean enough with the piano wire so that Bob Shannon's system of priming with gas in the spark plug hole will get it running again. Before I took the carburetor apart I was able to get the engine running by spraying "Starting Fluid" which is either, on the air filter. This is easier than priming it with gas in the spark plug hole and the Starting Fluid is readily available at auto parts stores. People like me who never owned a new car and drive old ~$300 secondhand pickup trucks (disposable transportation:-) always have a can of starting fluid in the tool box. If it won't start on either it ain't gonna go!! Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:54:02 EDT In a message dated 5/8/01 11:44:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, travis5765@........... writes: << Re: the direct battery powered computer: ............ A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. >> Hi Karl and Travis, What do you think of this idea: 1) buy three 12 volt deep charge RV-marine batteries. 2) Cut into the middle of the top of one battery to find the lead crossover terminal that connects the six 2.1 V individual cells in series (wear eye protection in case you accidentally short something out and make fireworks). Test the terminal you uncovered with a voltmeter to make sure there is 6.3 V to either of the two normal terminals of the battery. If it is the right crossover solder a heavy copper wire to it to make it into a center tapped 12-volt battery that is a dual +6.3 V -6.3 V power supply. Hook a 5V voltage regulator to each 6.3 volt leg and now you have the regulated +5V and -5V required to run the computer The center tap should go to neutral on the computer. 3) Connect the other two 12V batteries in series and their center to neutral on the computer. Put a 12V regulator on each 12.6 V (when fully charged) battery and you have the plus 12V and minus 12V regulated power required by the computer. 4) Connect three battery chargers, one to each 12V battery. These should be the type that automatically shut down so they don't overcharge the batteries. I have one from Sears that puts out 5-Amps on the high setting. 5) Hook a 12V DC/120V AC inverter to any one of the three 12V batteries to run your monitor and seismo. Now if the California Independent System Operator (ISO), shuts your power grid down your computer and seismo won't even know about it and you won't miss that big one. (Murphy's law almost guarantees this will happen;-). Of course you will need a gasoline or propane powered generator if the ISO turns you off for long stretches of time. If you are optimistic about California's electrical power problem being solved in the near future don't bother getting the generator :-). I live in a rural farm county in New Jersey but our power grid gets overloaded too. Another bigger problem we have here is ice storms and big wind storms that blow trees down across the power lines and leave us without power sometimes for days until the work crews get things fixed again. I live on top of a mountain and last summer lightning zapped my modem and also the modem in my fax machine despite the power line surge protectors that supposedly also protected the phone lines (read the fine print on these things and you will see that lighting surges are the one thing they don't guarantee to protect you from! ). It cost me ~$150 to have new modems installed and if had built the independent battery system described above I would have saved the modems (if I had remembered to disconnect the phone lines). I welcome your thoughts and comments on the above. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:02:14 -0700 Travis, All of the regulators in the schematic have the same part number. How do the regulators "know" you want +5 or + 12 volts out?? Cheers, Erich -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:11:12 -0700 Computer power supplies also have a "good power" output lead which tells the processor that AC power has been applied to the power supply. I've never checked the lead to see if it's AC, DC or what voltage, but without this input, a DC only system may not work. Cheers, Erich Kern -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:33:37 -0400 visit http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1084.html and look at the table at the bottom of the page. the voltage is the number after the part number and hyphen. Example: LM1084IT-12 (12V) LM1084IT-5.0 (5V) LM1084IT-3.3 (3.3V) -Travis >From: "Erich Kern" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:02:14 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC1F5FA00994004310CD864E08210091; Tue May 08 19:27:16 2001 >Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (unverified [207.217.120.62]) >by sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 19:02:18 -0700 >Received: from kern (pool0250.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net >[209.179.140.250])by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with >SMTP id TAA18645for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 19:00:35 -0700 >(PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 19:28:04 2001 >Message-ID: <004301c0d82c$11f05e60$fa8cb3d1@kern> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Travis, > >All of the regulators in the schematic have the same part number. How do >the >regulators "know" you want +5 or + 12 volts out?? > >Cheers, >Erich > >-----Original Message----- >From: Travis Farmer >To: psn-l@.............. >Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > >Re: the direct battery powered computer. > >A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. >all sources are needed to run the computer. >check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for >an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) > >Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. > >Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop >otherwise) >Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). >if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few >small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the >cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not >run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) >and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now >and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a >burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. >If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) >then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, >fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the >needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they >are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle >ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) >if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of >high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about >a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this >to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run >a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if >it >gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the >higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. >A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away >from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines >run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it >feels >too hot, give it a break for a little while. >only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher >octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else >fails, visit your local Honda shop. > >if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car >(unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. >(cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it >gives >better acceleration. > >-Travis > > > > >From: CapAAVSO@....... > >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. > >To: psn-l@.............. > >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 > >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by > >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > > for ; Tue, 8 May > >2001 08:26:48 -0700 > >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) >id > >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 > >-0400 (EDT) > >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 > >Message-ID: > >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 > >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > > > > >Hi Travis, > > > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V >DC/120V > >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC >power, > >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an > >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected > >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. >If > >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer >would > >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will >of > >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a > >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 >V > >DC > >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains > >came > >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to > >convert > >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > > > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor >on > >my > >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't > >start. > >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't > >start. How can I get it running again? > > > >Best regards, > >Cap > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >travis5765@........... writes: > > > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the > >wattage > > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to >the > > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots > >of > > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the >charger > > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries > >from > > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the >batteries > > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is >how > > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops > >when > > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the >batteries. > > > > -Travis > > >> > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@............ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:53:33 -0400 Last I knew, the "power good" signal was directed at the power supply so it knew if it was getting power to the board. If not, the supply shutdown. I have an old 486 board I can fiddle with and see what happens. I will just connect the power supply wires needed for +-12V, and +-5V. I will report back with the results. I my self am curious if it will work now that I really get to thinking about it. -Travis -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:11 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Computer power supplies also have a "good power" output lead which tells the processor that AC power has been applied to the power supply. I've never checked the lead to see if it's AC, DC or what voltage, but without this input, a DC only system may not work. Cheers, Erich Kern -----Original Message----- From: Travis Farmer To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations Re: the direct battery powered computer. A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. all sources are needed to run the computer. check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop otherwise) Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if it gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it feels too hot, give it a break for a little while. only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else fails, visit your local Honda shop. if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car (unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. (cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it gives better acceleration. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 08:26:48 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Hi Travis, > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V DC/120V >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC power, >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. If >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer would >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will of >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 V >DC >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains >came >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to >convert >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor on >my >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't >start. >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't >start. How can I get it running again? > >Best regards, >Cap >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the >wattage > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to the > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots >of > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the charger > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries >from > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the batteries > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is how > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops >when > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the batteries. > > -Travis > >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:57:26 -0400 the regulators I noted in the schematic can handle the full 12V direct from the battery. Besides, cutting a battery gets crap into the acid/water and will shorten the charge life of the battery. On a note slightly the same, keep the batteries warm. it helps them last longer. about 90 - 100 deg F should be about right (figured this out when I was in the local electric car team. the car was US champ due to my endless testing of the batteries for performance and of course the driver was a big help.) I am currently trying to figure out a way to get duel supply (V+ and V-) from a single set of batteries. doing so would help in charging. somebody mentioned taping the 12VDC output of a generator to take over and charge the batteries when the power fails. I'm not sure if this would work or not. in order to charge a battery, the charge supply must have a slightly higher voltage than the battery. I think most chargers are around 13 or 14 volts. check with the manufacture of the generator for more information concerning this. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:54:02 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC1F5FA00994004310CD864E08210090; Tue May 08 19:27:14 2001 >Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (unverified [64.12.136.163]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 18:56:15 -0700 >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id >x.9c.e2d0ad5 (3986) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 21:54:03 >-0400 (EDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 19:28:41 2001 >Message-ID: <9c.e2d0ad5.2829fd3a@.......> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >In a message dated 5/8/01 11:44:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, >travis5765@........... writes: > ><< Re: the direct battery powered computer: ............ > > A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and >-5VDC. > all sources are needed to run the computer. > >> >Hi Karl and Travis, > >What do you think of this idea: > >1) buy three 12 volt deep charge RV-marine batteries. > >2) Cut into the middle of the top of one battery to find the lead crossover >terminal that connects the six 2.1 V individual cells in series (wear eye >protection in case you accidentally short something out and make >fireworks). >Test the terminal you uncovered with a voltmeter to make sure there is 6.3 >V >to either of the two normal terminals of the battery. If it is the right >crossover solder a heavy copper wire to it to make it into a center tapped >12-volt battery that is a dual +6.3 V -6.3 V power supply. Hook a 5V >voltage >regulator to each 6.3 volt leg and now you have the regulated +5V and -5V >required to run the computer The center tap should go to neutral on the >computer. > >3) Connect the other two 12V batteries in series and their center to >neutral >on the computer. Put a 12V regulator on each 12.6 V (when fully charged) >battery and you have the plus 12V and minus 12V regulated power required by >the computer. > >4) Connect three battery chargers, one to each 12V battery. These should be >the type that automatically shut down so they don't overcharge the >batteries. >I have one from Sears that puts out 5-Amps on the high setting. > >5) Hook a 12V DC/120V AC inverter to any one of the three 12V batteries to >run your monitor and seismo. Now if the California Independent System >Operator (ISO), shuts your power grid down your computer and seismo won't >even know about it and you won't miss that big one. (Murphy's law almost >guarantees this will happen;-). > >Of course you will need a gasoline or propane powered generator if the ISO >turns you off for long stretches of time. If you are optimistic about >California's electrical power problem being solved in the near future don't >bother getting the generator :-). I live in a rural farm county in New >Jersey >but our power grid gets overloaded too. Another bigger problem we have here >is ice storms and big wind storms that blow trees down across the power >lines >and leave us without power sometimes for days until the work crews get >things >fixed again. I live on top of a mountain and last summer lightning zapped >my >modem and also the modem in my fax machine despite the power line surge >protectors that supposedly also protected the phone lines (read the fine >print on these things and you will see that lighting surges are the one >thing >they don't guarantee to protect you from! ). It cost me ~$150 to have new >modems installed and if had built the independent battery system described >above I would have saved the modems (if I had remembered to disconnect the >phone lines). I welcome your thoughts and comments on the above. > >Best regards, >Cap >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Generator recommendations From: Jim Hannon jmhannon@........ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:57:45 -0500 One thing that I keep hearing from lots of places it that you need a good sine wave to power a PC. This pushed one of my buttons and I sure would like to hear the reason for the damage. There is nothing that I know of about the off line switch mode power supplies used in PC that would require a good sine wave. The AC power goes to a bridge rectifier and then to a filter capacitor. A square wave may heat up the capacitor a little more than a sine wave but that is about all. However one problem that can happen with gas generators is that they have a tendency to go out of regulation and overvoltage just as they run out of fuel. This can damage a lot of things not just computer power supplies. Suggestion: don't let your generator run out of fuel. Jim Hannon http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/ 42,11.90N,91,39.26W WB0TXL __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: UPS power systems From: sean@........... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:28:59 -0500 (CDT) In line with the current discussions about backup power, here is a repeat of some info on UPS systems and inverters: I have consistently used inverters to power seismic systems, and several are currently in use at SLU to operate both the analog and the digital systems, including several SUN workstations. These are of the totally uninterruptible design, without any switching to the inverter in the event of an outage: the loads operate continuously from the 1 kilowatt precision inverters, which operate on either 12 or 24 Volt, 200 or 100 ampere DC supplies, which are connected in parallel with 660 ampere hour battery systems, which give a full load run time of about 8 hours. The "12" volts is actually adjusted to the critical cell voltages of the Lead-Calcium cells, which are warranted for 20 years. These Exide batteries are used in critical communications systems and as backup hoist power for mines. I used similar systems at Adak, AK, in the Aleutians. The AC power from the navy was from diesel generators, about the reliability of Angel's. Our systems could operate for at least 6 hours from the batteries, but we also had our own 15 kW diesel backup generator with enough fuel for weeks. The frequency control of the AC power was so poor that ferroresonant (CVT) regulators (constant voltage transformers, or CVTs) were useless, so we used 1.5kw servo controlled variacs to control the line voltage. For frequency dependent mag tape and continuous microfilm recorders, the Topaz inverters had crystal controlled stability. For efficiency, these large inverters synthesized a sine wave output. For the IRIS stations, we use switched-mode, microprocessor controlled inverters by BEST. They provide only line conditioning in normal mode, but sense a brownout within 1 cycle of the AC line and switch in the inverter, starting it with perfect synchronism; the return of the load to the AC line is similarly synchronized with the zero crossing of the sine wave. (Their main weakness is that they sense a "low battery" condition and shut down the inverter to protect the battery, but then continue to run the microprocessor from the battery, which eventually kills it AND the program/memory backup lithium cells if the outage lasts longer than a day. I had to install Hg relays to disconnect the batteries if neither the line or the inverter voltages were present). Their charger program can be adjusted for the capacity of additional external batteries. Similar technology is used in their better (transformer based) PC level UPS boxes of a few hundred watts, such as I have at home, but without access to the microprocessor program. They are not, however designed for long term continuous use, mainly because of inadequate cooling. But a less expensive "sort-of" square-wave output inverter can be a problem. The better ones still use a large transformer, and will run continuously at about 50% of their rating, But some really lightweights use a totally switched mode system to get 110VAC with lots of noise. I have a large transformer coupled one in my field van, and the square wave even messes with the electronic speed control of some VSR drills. The frequency is stabilized, though, so for some electronic applications I use a CVT which cleans up the square wave into a sine wave. As always, the good, the bad, and the ugly of it is that you get what you pay for, so a good initial investment is worth considering. And as with any power switching device, a good design does include proper transient suppression and shielding/grounding. Surprisingly, a significant radiator of noise are the DC input cables, which often are not by-passed with capacitors and isolated with torroid inductors. An important note about battery life: unless you invest in the expensive "stationery service" cells like Exide's, the choice becomes the 12 V marine or deep discharge batteries, or the Delco photovoltaic of about the same price. But in float service, even with Best's equalizing program, these only last about 3 years. So for the IRIS station CCM, I need to come up with $800 every three years to replace the 8 batteries in the systems. This limited life is also true of the PC system UPS boxes like Tripp-Lite and APC. They don't tell you this on the box, but they do have instructions for replacing the battery, which can be hard to find. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Al Allworth" allworth@.............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:34:10 -0700 The purpose of the POWER GOOD signal is a quick acting signal telling the CPU that the power is going down. The CPU then has enough time to go to sleep gracefully without damage. It also stops the CPU from starting with too low a voltage. In using 3 terminal regulators remember that they need around 2 volts over the output voltage to be able to function. Considering that, it would be more effecient to use an invertor. Also each part of the battery string would have to be charged at a different current to keep all the cells equally charged. Al Allworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Farmer" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations > Last I knew, the "power good" signal was directed at the power supply so it > knew if it was getting power to the board. If not, the supply shutdown. > I have an old 486 board I can fiddle with and see what happens. > I will just connect the power supply wires needed for +-12V, and +-5V. I > will report back with the results. > I my self am curious if it will work now that I really get to thinking about __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:34:33 -0400 Upon testing, i found that the "Power good" (PG) pin on the motherboard connector must be held Low for the board to operate. this is done by connecting it to ground. does not seem to have any adverse affects. I researched the issue and found that the reason for the PG pin is because there is a power up time for power supplies. this means that for the first few miliseconds when you turn on the supply, the power rises untill it reaches the needed amount. then it pulls the PG pin to ground to let the motherboard know it is safe to operate. With a battery operated supply, there should not be any power up. turn it on and it's there. so it is safe to say the PG pin can be connected to ground while on battery power supply. if it is doen while on AC power supply, it will probably degrade the board components over time. -Travis >From: "Travis Farmer" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:53:33 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC1FF0C003740042A1ED864E08212E13; Tue May 08 20:06:19 2001 >Received: from imx0.midmaine.com (unverified [216.220.230.16]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 19:56:16 -0700 >Received: from travis1 (216-220-250-43.midmaine.com [216.220.250.43])by >imx0.midmaine.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA21626for >; Tue, 8 May 2001 22:54:44 -0400 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 20:06:34 2001 >Message-ID: >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >In-Reply-To: <006001c0d82d$5271ede0$fa8cb3d1@kern> >Importance: Normal >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Last I knew, the "power good" signal was directed at the power supply so it >knew if it was getting power to the board. If not, the supply shutdown. >I have an old 486 board I can fiddle with and see what happens. >I will just connect the power supply wires needed for +-12V, and +-5V. I >will report back with the results. >I my self am curious if it will work now that I really get to thinking >about >it. > >-Travis > >-----Original Message----- >From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. >Behalf Of Erich Kern >Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:11 PM >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > >Computer power supplies also have a "good power" output lead which tells >the >processor that AC power has been applied to the power supply. I've never >checked >the lead to see if it's AC, DC or what voltage, but without this input, a >DC >only system may not work. > >Cheers, >Erich Kern > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Travis Farmer >To: psn-l@.............. >Date: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:39 PM >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > > >Re: the direct battery powered computer. > >A computer generally has 4 power sources. +12VDC, -12VDC, +5VDC, and -5VDC. >all sources are needed to run the computer. >check out http://home.midmaine.com/~cgf/graphics/comp_power_supply.jpg for >an example of how it can be done. (charger not shown) > >Re: the carburetor on my Honda generator. > >Depends on how mechanically inclined you are. (visit the Honda shop >otherwise) >Get a can of spray carb cleaner (available at 99.9% of auto parts stores). >if the carb venturi area is accessible with the carb mounted, spray a few >small squirts on the jets. Pull the engine over a few times to burn off the >cleaner (don't spray too muck or you will flood the engine). if it does not >run smoothly yet, turn it off (unless it didn't start in the first place) >and spray a few more times. make sure to pull it over a few times every now >and then. Take notice, carb cleaner is very volatile. about the same as a >burst of nitro into the engine. don't spray too much. >If the carb is easily removable (enough so that you can do it without help) >then do so and give the jets a good spray. if it is of the float bowl type, >fill the bowl with cleaner and lightly shake it (cleans the bowl and the >needle jets). Make sure to replace any gaskets with new ones (unless they >are of the paper kind, those are multi use usually. if there is a mettle >ring on the gasket, replace the gasket.) >if doing this gets it into a more or less running state, then run a tank of >high octane gas. Octane booster is available at wal-mart last I knew. about >a pint to a 5 gallon can seems to work well (read the directions). Add this >to premium gas (highest level of octane from the pump). the engine will run >a little hotter so make sure to stop it and give it some cool off time if >it >gets too hot (don't cool off with water, it will crack the block). the >higher octane will dissolve most of the remaining varnish. >A way of figuring the running temp, feel the exhaust gas (about a foot away >from the muffler/pipe so as not to get burned) with your hand. most engines >run cool enough that the exhaust is hot but not so hot it burns. if it >feels >too hot, give it a break for a little while. >only use a tank of gas (or two if it is a small tank) because the higher >octane will lower the lifetime of the engine if used too much. If all else >fails, visit your local Honda shop. > >if there is allot of super high octane gas left over, pour it into your car >(unless it has oil pre-mixed for a 2 cycle engine). it will do wonders. >(cleans injectors, fuel lines, pump, ect...) and as an added bonus, it >gives >better acceleration. > >-Travis > > > > >From: CapAAVSO@....... > >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. > >To: psn-l@.............. > >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations > >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:31 EDT > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > >MHotMailBCC15D49009E400431DCD864E082089E0; Tue May 08 08:35:40 2001 > >Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com (unverified [152.163.225.66]) by > >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > > for ; Tue, 8 May > >2001 08:26:48 -0700 > >Received: from CapAAVSO@......... imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) >id > >x.f4.9d7c568 (5739) for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:24:32 > >-0400 (EDT) > >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 08:37:12 2001 > >Message-ID: > >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 114 > >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > > > > >Hi Travis, > > > >I like your idea and plan on eventually building a similar backup system. > >What I would like to know is how can I go about eliminating the 12V >DC/120V > >AC inverter in your system. Since the computer ultimately runs on DC >power, > >how can I just run it from the 12V batteries? Then a charger with an > >automatic cutoff when the batteries are fully charged, could be connected > >permanently to the 12 V batteries so they are always kept fully charged. >If > >the 120V AC mains go down as is happening in California, the computer >would > >not know it happened because it is running off the batteries. They will >of > >course run down eventually but that problem can be taken care of with a > >generator. I have an 800 Watt Honda 120V AC generator that also has a 12 >V > >DC > >output that could be used to keep the batteries charged until the mains > >came > >back on. I hope somebody can tell me what to do inside my computer to > >convert > >it to run on 12V DC from the batteries. > > > >Also another question, does anybody know how I can clean the carburetor >on > >my > >Honda generator. I left gas in it for too many months and now it won't > >start. > >I took the carburetor apart and blew it out with air but it still won't > >start. How can I get it running again? > > > >Best regards, > >Cap > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >In a message dated 05/07/2001 11:32:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >travis5765@........... writes: > > > ><< You can build a battery backup fairly simply. > > just get a 12V - 110V (or whatever you need) power inverter in the > >wattage > > you need, connect lots of Deep-cycle marine batteries in parallel to >the > > inverter. get a hefty, low noise, battery charger to charge all the > > batteries (as fast as you use the power). set up a 12V relay (with lots > >of > > power handling) so that the relay coil is directly powered by the >charger > > and the switch (duel or single pole) connects/disconnects the batteries > >from > > the charger. it should be setup in such a way that when the charger no > > longer has power, it deactivates the relay and disconnects the >batteries > > from the charger so that it does not discharge them. at least this is >how > > the UPS I have works (just one battery at the moment). > > Just a note, the charger should be an auto charger (automatically stops > >when > > the batteries are fully charged) so as not to over charge the >batteries. > > > > -Travis > > >> > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PC power supplies From: D Collins dcollin@........... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:41:15 -0700 At 03:37 PM 5/8/01 , you wrote: >For more than you ever wanted to know about switch mode computer power >supplies >see http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_smpsfaq.html > >enjoy, > >Darrell __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:25:36 -0400 I think after a little though, using an inverter would be much more efficient. if nothing else, you cant really power the monitor via battery, and a computer without a monitor is very hard to work with. (unless you are lucky enough to have a VGA input for your brain.) The trick is charging All the batteries equally and efficiently. -Travis >From: "Al Allworth" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations >Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:34:10 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC20706001D4004370AD864E082052F0; Tue May 08 20:40:45 2001 >Received: from mail.harborside.com (unverified [204.214.110.226]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 8 May >2001 20:36:02 -0700 >Received: from [12.45.53.57] (helo=gold)by mail.harborside.com with smtp >(Exim 3.03 #1)id 14xKjx-0002hz-00for psn-l@............... Tue, 08 May 2001 >20:34:17 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 08 20:42:22 2001 >Message-ID: <008a01c0d838$ecf19f40$39352d0c@gold> >References: >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >The purpose of the POWER GOOD signal is a quick acting signal telling the >CPU that the power is going down. The CPU then has enough time to >go to sleep gracefully without damage. It also stops the CPU from starting >with too low a voltage. > >In using 3 terminal regulators remember that they need around 2 volts over >the output voltage to be able to function. Considering that, it would be >more >effecient to use an invertor. Also each part of the battery string would >have >to be charged at a different current to keep all the cells equally charged. > > Al Allworth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Travis Farmer" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:53 PM >Subject: RE: Gas Generator recommendations > > > > Last I knew, the "power good" signal was directed at the power supply so >it > > knew if it was getting power to the board. If not, the supply shutdown. > > I have an old 486 board I can fiddle with and see what happens. > > I will just connect the power supply wires needed for +-12V, and +-5V. I > > will report back with the results. > > I my self am curious if it will work now that I really get to thinking >about > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations / standby power From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:38:37 -0700 Al wrote: "I have a 250 watt UPS that I put Binding Posts on the back so I can add more battery capacity when needed. It uses 12 volts." A warning might be needed here. I agree with your advice on taking out the batteries and using a fan and so forth. But the line above suggests paralleling the internal with external batteries. It isn't advise that wet cells (car batteries for instance) in parallel with gel cells (UPS supply internal batteries) because they don't equalize well due to slightly different cell voltages. Even if the cell chemistry were to give equal voltages, a large change can also be easily caused by different thermal environments, with the hotter battery's terminal voltage dropping, and getting hotter as it adsorbs more charging current. I.e., batteries in parallel should be similar in size, location, charging/ usage history and chemistry, and even then you can have problems without careful attention. Regards, Chas. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Split/tapped batteries not recommended From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:04:56 -0700 Cap, You proposed the idea of tapping the batteries. I would suggest that that wouldn't be a good idea. Al later briefly mentioned the big problem with this -- unequal currents being drawn out of the PC supply. Generally the minus voltages are required to supply only a few tens of milliamps, The RS232 serial port being a major consumer for its require plus and minus swing. On the other hand the + 12 is usually called upon for the hard disk drive motors and voice coil actuators, so it runs in the several amps. The +5 is the real killer. It runs in the many amps for the processor and logic. Additionally on the ATX supply used with Pentium class machines you need the 3.3 V supply at lots and lots of current (tens of amps), You can see the pinout at: http://www.technick.net/cgi-bin/frames/loadframes.cgi?http://www.technick.net/pinconmth_atx_power.htm The upshot of all this is that one section of your tapped battery will be discharged and as you attempt to charge it, you will burn up the other side trying to send charge current through it to the discharged side. And if you've never smelled the odor of an overcharged battery in the morning, it's not a good one. (I was in the two-way business in my early days, and we kept batteries under the bench to feed the "dyna-grinders" in the transmitters. Think about that one, old timers!) Regards, Chas. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: CMC Unguided Virtual Tour Single Station Posters From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:14:05 -0700 Hi all, Dennis Recla has forwarded a web reference to the new KS54000 borehole triaxial seismometer which replaced the KS36000 units. http://www.cmc.sandia.gov/vtour/st-seismic-st/posters_single.htm Thanks Dennis, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations / standby power From: "Al Allworth" allworth@.............. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:29:57 -0700 Your warning about Gel cels is accurate. However very, very few UPS units have Gel cells. Many people think they are, even those that sell them. What most use are common lead acid cells that are semi-sealed and the electrolyte is held in a very absorbant blotter like material. A true Gel cell will say GELL CELL on it.The instructions that come with replacement batteries usually say not to chargeinverted. A Gell cell can be charged and operated in any position. The sealed lead-acid cells can be operated in all positions except inverted. I see many batteries sold on eBay advertised as Gell cells but if you get the catalog from the manufacturer you often find that they don't make any Gell cell batteries. I have connected my UPS to a car battery when both had been fully charged and checked for voltage differential before closing the circuit. I found less than 10 Mv. difference. With about 5 feet of #10 wires connecting the external battery I found no problems. I ran a seismograph and computer with monitor for several weeks from it and neither battery was damaged Al Allworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles R. Patton" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations / standby power > Al wrote: > "I have a 250 watt UPS that I put Binding Posts on the back so I can > add more battery capacity when needed. It uses 12 volts." > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: shipping and info on KS36000 Seismometers From: "Bryan & Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:52:26 -0500 =20 Well the most important thing to me is not speed but handling it with = care. I don't want to damage it if it is in working order thoughI would = like to get it as soon as possible. Your shipping plans sound fine = although I don't know if they will be able to deliver to a residential = home if not just let me know where to meet them or pick it up, as for = the test set I will not need it for a long wile as I have a lot of = research to do on the KS36000 Seismo before attempting instillation. I = would like to get one of the manuals when they are ready. PS thank you = very much for your time and effort it is much appreciated. Any info from people on the psn-l about the KS36000 would also be = helpful Thanks Bryan S Goss=20
 

Well the=20 most important thing to me is not speed but handling it with care. I = don't want=20 to damage it if it is in working order thoughI would like to get it as = soon as=20 possible. Your shipping plans sound fine although I don't know if they = will be=20 able to deliver to a residential home if not just let me know where to = meet them=20 or pick it up, as for the test set I will not need it for a long wile as = I have=20 a lot of research to do on the KS36000 Seismo before = attempting=20 instillation. I would like to get one of the manuals when they are = ready. =20 PS thank you very much for your time and effort it is much=20 appreciated.

Any info from people on the psn-l about the = KS36000 would also be = helpful=20 Thanks

Bryan S=20 Goss

Subject: compact rare-earth magnet assembly From: sean@........... Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:56:24 -0500 (CDT) About making a suitable magnet for a seismometer moving-coil transducer: (This was first presented in February 2000) A useful annular or "pot" magnet for seismometer transducers can be made from off the shelf or "bought" hardware. There are many possible permutations in configuring a magnet to work with a coil. The problem is finding the soft iron parts of the magnet assembly without resorting to a machine shop. A companion find is the form for the coil to fit the gap. A singular find will readily work in a one-of-a-kind application, but this doesn't work for a multiplicity of instruments. For a prototype of an new broadband instrument, I have been able to assemble an annular magnet (similar to a speaker magnet) that has an effective field strength across the gap of about 3600 gauss, and when used with the compact formless coil of 5/8" ID x 3/4" OD by 5/8" L with 12 layers with a total of about 1200 turns, has a constant of 10.6 Newtons/Ampere (Volts/meter/second). (I will describe the coil in a separate email). The clearances of the 12-layer coil are still large enough to allow 6 mm of movement at an arc length of only 100 mm. So this also makes it a candidate for a 1/2 sized "STM-8" leaf spring vertical. (The long boom of the original STM-8 is because of the minimal clearance of the coil in the 10" speaker magnet, which is designed to move in a straight line.) It is also useable for a compact (6" boom) horizontal seis of the Lehman design. A cross section pictorial of the magnet would look like: c c c c WWWW cPPPPPc WWWW MMM c BBB c MMM MMM c BBB c MMM MMM BBB MMM wwwwwwwwTwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwTwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwTwwwwwwww T Where MMM is the magnet, WW is the thick pole washer, PP,BB, and T are the shoulder bolt, with PP being its head, BB the shaft, and TT the threads; www are the base washers. The coil is represented by cc. THe parts are purchased from McMaster-Carr supply: (630-833-0300; they take charge cards, no minimum; ask for ~3000 page catalogue) The magnet is a rare-earth bonded ring magnet 1.38"OD x 0.827"ID x 3/8" thick. MCM # 5901K76 for $28.40. The soft iron upper pole is an oversize washer 1.5" OD x 13/16"ID x 1/4" thick. MCM # 98099A036 for $1.34 (THe center hole is stamped = tapered by about 0.030; file it square). The lower pole consists of FOUR washers 1.5" OD x 9/32ID x 3/64" thick MCM # 91090A113 ; box of 100 for $5.83 (select the thicker ones and drill and de-burr the center hole to 5/16") THe center pole is a shoulder bolt, with a 3/8" stem 3/8" long, a 5/16" thread 1/2" long, , and a 9/16" diameter socket head that is the center pole of the magnet gap. MCM # 91259A617; $1.00 ea. The thread of the shoulder bolt is somewhat short, so I tap (thread) the mounting hole in the aluminum bracket. Or less than 4 washers can be used with a somewhat reduced field (about 5% less with 2 washers) to allow fastening with a nut. The magnet will hold itself together for assembly. A touch of super-glue will permanently position the parts. The magnet will also pinch fingers and grab anything handy. (The VRDT in the BBT needs to be shielded from it). The effective field could be at least twice the observed value if the soft iron parts were custom machined to more effectively concentrate the field in the annular gap. A smaller annular diameter might help, but it requires a different temporary form for the coil. Another trade-off is the ID/OD possibilities of the thick pole washer. And the shoulder bolt. (The next smaller washer ( 21/32"ID x 1 3/8" OD) is only 3/16" thick) Using two magnets and a longer shoulder bolt increases the field by about 10%. The force of the 5/8" long coil is measurably constant over a range of + or - 1/16" (2 mm). A shorter coil (3/8") with about 80% of the output has measurable non-linearities. It seems that the coil should be at least twice the length of the soft iron poles. Adding a second 1/4" pole washer makes no appreciable improvement. Drawings of the design will be posted on my web site when I get a chance to bring it up to date. For a few stamps and an address I can mail a copy. Regards, Sean-Thomas. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: the compact formless coil From: sean@........... Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:57:39 -0500 (CDT) Here is a repeat of the design abd construction of a compact coil to be used with the rare-earth magnet/soft iron washer magnet design. The original is from December 1999. Regarding winding a compact coil for a seismometer as either a direct velocity sensor or as a feedback force coil (using the magnet assembly made with parts bought from McMaster-Carr). One of the perplexities of making a home made seismometer is the need to create an efficient coil and magnet transducer to use either as a basic velocity sensor or as the forcing element of a fedback broadband system. The resources of the amateur builder are constrained to making the best of "found" hardware that can be modified or or often ingeniously adapted. For a coil-magnet transducer, the magnet is most likely to be used "as is", and a coil created to fit it. But the coil itself needs to be created on a form that provides the greatest number of turns actually inside the magnet gap. But generally, a "found" FORM will take up a large portion of the available space in the gap. If one examines a speaker coil, the form is a thin cylinder of craft-like paper and often aluminum (to dissipate heat) that is no more than about 0.010" thick. THe rest of the circular gap of about 0.093" is about evenly occupied by about 50% for the two or four layers of the coil winding with the rest for clearances on each side. If the speaker coil IS used for the seismometer, the low resistance limits the velocity output. The tight clearance is a problem for linear motion of the coil for the partial arc movement of the seismometer boom. So there is a need to be able to wind a coil with a much higher number of turns that still fits the speaker magnet (or another magnet made with found hardware). With enough searching, a smooth cylinder form with the proper outside diameter (OD) can be found. For example, for the 10" speaker, the ID of the gap is 1 15/16 and the OD is 1 5/8", so the ID of the coil is about 1 17/32" and the OD is 1 19/32". There are 40 turns per layer of each two layer, 4 ohm coil. Winding a new coil with #36 magnet wire would get 8 layers of 90 turns each into the same space, for a 4.5x increase of the output to about 50 volts/meter/second.. So I have found a way to wind a coil that consists entirely windings of the coil on a temporary tubular form, with epoxing of each layer. After the temporary form is removed, only windings remain to fill the magnet gap. This method is not easy, and will try your patience, but if you take your time, the result is predictable and rewarding. The form is a very smooth tube of about 0.010" OD less than the required finished ID; the sources are everywhere; take your ruler to the store. Pill jars might be used, but be careful of the taper used in molding them. Any very smooth tube will do. I have peeled the label from a CRazy-Glue tube for a 5/8" id form that I need for a compact transducer using bought parts for the magnet.. (The dimensions below apply to this coil). The initial setup requires that the first layer be securely held in place but in a manner that it will slide off the form. So a label is installed >sticky side out< on the form. Start with a paper label cut in length exactly to the circumference (2.0") but about somewhat wider (1.0") than the planned winding (0.625") and installed sticky side out on the tube with strips of regular tape outside the planned winding area. I fold under the ends of the tape to facilitate removal, as well as to hold the free end of the starting turn. Set up the wire roll (#36 Beldsol) ("Beldsol" wire has an enamel insulation that melts free of the wire when it is soldered at 700deg.F) on a smooth rod across the opening of a box so that it unwinds freely. Then pass it though a small pad of paper to control the tension by putting various weights on top of the pad. Start the coil with the free end looped under the temporary tape. I wind the coil by turning the top towards me so I can see each winding. Turn the coil form by hand and make sure each winding falls exactly next to the previous. I have found that using a portion of the final coil mounting with a 1/4" shaft at each end of the forming tube allows some amount of "twirling" to speed the winding process. I get "magnet wire" as it is called from Newark (800-463-9275). The #36 Beldsol is Belden # 8058, a 1/2 pound spool of 6400 ft, which should make about 30 of the coils I described. (Or a single 2656 ohm coil at 415 ohms/1000 ft). The Newark number is 36F1321, for $28. (A more elaborate winding setup can be imagined, but may not be worth the effort to create one or two coils. This proceedure takes about 15 minutes per layer, including waiting on the epoxy. ... About 2 hours for an 8-layer coil, or one RAMS game for the 12-layer version). One can go nuts trying to count the turns, so just use the winding length divided by the wire size to determine the number of turns. A 0.625" winding length of #36 wire of 0.0055" diameter is about 120 turns per layer. The initial coil length should be at least half the number of layers longer. Once a layer is complete, I lay the form and coil on a tablet at a right angle to the direction to the wire spool and use a pair of rulers and a weight to prop it up so the winding stays under tension and in place. For epoxying the layer, I use the "five minute" epoxy by Devcon that comes in the parallel syringe tubes. It takes about a pea size amount of each resin; if it is over-mixed, it sets up too fast. I use a small screwdriver to apply a thin layer to the winding layer, keeping the tension on the free end to keep it in place. (This requires rotating the form so that one additional turn results). Then I immediately wipe all the excess from the winding with a finger, wiping it clean on a towel each time. This pushes the epoxy between the windings and results in a completely smooth outside finish to the layer. Any delay will find the epoxy starting to gell: you have about 1 minute to finish!. Prop up the coil again with the winding under tension and allow the epoxy to set for about 5 minutes. (Test the epoxy set-up on your mixing pad). (The un-set epoxy will wash off your finger with warm soapy water). The problem now arises in winding the second layer back towards the starting point: the wire is very difficult to see laying over itself. And if any winding is out of place: ie: not laying exactly adjacent to the previous turn, dips or lumps in the winding will result, and subsequent layers will take up too much room. So I have found that laying three or four stripes of typing correcting film across the winding makes the new winding quite visible. I use the "Mono Correcting film" for three stripes evenly spaced around the circumference. It then becomes very easy to see each turn, and even back up a turn if white space is seen between turns. I then wind back toward the starting point, stopping one turn shy because a turn is added in applying the epoxy. Each layer must be one turn less at each end in this "formless" method construction. Again, the coil is propped up to keep the wire under tension, the epoxy mixed, applied, and wiped smooth, as above. I apply the next set of white film stripes offset from the first so the slight added thickness is distributed evenly around the coil. This process is repeated until the coil is built up to the desired OD for clearance in the magnet gap. Mistakes will be amplified in later layers, so don't make them. To date I have made a 12 layer coil of about 1200 turns and 98 ohms. (5/8" ID by 3/4" OD; starting length 5/8", finishing length (of 12th layer) 1/2". The output is 10.5 Newtons/Ampere with the "bought" magnet I have described. Once the coil is complete, let the epoxy cure for several hours. Then remove the temporary taping and slide the coil off the form toward the tapered end (even the KRazy glue tube is tapered slightly). Carefully twisting the tube helps, but be careful not to damage the coil. Then carefully remove the original sticky side up label from inside the coil, being careful about the free ends of the winding. I then epoxy the winding to a short piece of fiberglass tube with a 1/4" fiberglass threaded stud in the center for mounting. Regarding the direct solderability of Beldsol at 700 Deg F, I have found that lightly scraping the enamel insulation with a razor-type knife facilitates the removal of the insulation when soldering it to a terminal, which reduces the chances of melting the socket or pin or whatever if it is a PVC material. For temperature control, I use the Weller WTCPT solder station that uses interchangeable tips with different temperature cut-offs (where the curie point of the tip is reached at a given temperature and it becomes non-magnetic and releases a magnetic switch that turns off the heater current; if you have one of these, this is why it clicks all the time). This Weller soldering system is much more affordable than those with electronic When I get some time to update the web site, I will post drawings and photos. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Picking up KS36000 Seismometers From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 07:53:49 -0700 The cheapest and least destructive way to ship this unit will be to put it in a box, drive to the air freight office of an airline that serves both ends, and personally give it to the airline (specifying slow freight and hold for pickup). The recipient drives down to the airport and picks it up. Take a look at the United Airlines freight site http://www.unitedcargo.com/ and you can calculate a shipping price. Once you involve intermediaries, the price goes up substantially. Probably it ought to have a real shipping container, like a custom wooden box or perhaps a surplus ordnance container, as opposed to a cardboard box. UPS or FedEx ground would be cheaper, and include pickup and delivery, but they won't take over 150 pounds. I guess an exact packed wieght would answer that question. They would get more abuse enroute. A real trucking service will cost you more than air freight by the time the handlers and liars finish with you. Karl Cunningham wrote: > > > Do you have a preference on a shipper? Do you want air (quicker) or ground > (cheaper)? I'll ask the packing company if they have a recommendation, but > otherwise I'll look at what other people on the PSN list have suggested. > > As soon as these things are nailed down, I should be able to get it to the > packager within a day. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: compact rare-earth magnet assembly From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:49:45 -0700 Hi all, in response, All Electronics www.allelectronics.com this type of magnet for $2.00 ea. or 10 for $17.50. They're 3.35"OD x 1.27"ID x 0.6 thick. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Stephen & Kathy mortskm@....... Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:29:12 -0700 FYI,, speaking of inverters, I notice that my latest Harbor Freight "Tool Disposal Notice" has a "Wagan tech" 600 watt continuous, 1200 watt peak,, with low battery alarm and shutdown and cooling fan, for $79.99,,, reg. $129.99 lot no. 39395 ((((retail stores only)))) Sale ends May 27, 2001 Might be worth looking into??? Stephen PSN Station #55 near Pilot Hill Ca 38.828N 120.979W Travis Farmer wrote: > I think after a little though, using an inverter would be much more > efficient. if nothing else, you cant really power the monitor via battery, > and a computer without a monitor is very hard to work with. (unless you are > lucky enough to have a VGA input for your brain.) > > The trick is charging All the batteries equally and efficiently. > > -Travis __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Manuals for KS36000 and TSC From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 11:07:05 -0700 Hi all -- Dr. Hutt of USGS will be sending me one set of manuals for the KS36000 seismometer and the test set / controller (TSC). I'm not sure when they will arrive, but hopefully in the next couple weeks. The USGS is charging $65 for the set, including shipping. When I get them, I will get a cost for copying each manual and let everyone know, along with an estimated shipping cost. I'll split the $65 between all who want manuals, including myself. The KS36000 manual is about 500 pages; don't know how many in the TSC manual. I don't know if there are large, fold-out drawings, which can be a significant adder to copying charges. If you are interested in one or both manuals, send me an email at manuals@.......... . Please do not send requests via the PSN list. I won't hold anyone to it, but will have an approximate quantity when going to copy places for quotes. Regards, Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: alternate transducer magnet From: sean@........... Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:19:37 -0500 (CDT) In regard to Casey's suggestion about an alternate magnet, "this type of magnet" is not the exact magnet required for the transducer design (all the dimensions are different), and I would certainly doubt if it is a bonded Neodymium rare earth magnet at that price. McMaster and other catalogues I have do show a wide selection of large ceramic ring magnets (as used in speakers) in the large dimensions mentioned and price range. The bonded Neo magnets have about 4 times the specific coercivity of ceramic. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: alternate transducer magnet From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:40:00 -0700 Forgive me. I'm new to this. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 18:08:35 -0400 For those interested in pursuing the "buck-boost" scheme where the input voltage can be both above and below the target voltage it is also known as a SEPIC topology. (Single Ended Primary Inductor Converter). A relevant artical can be found at -- http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/dn48.shtm Bear in mind that Unitrode has recently been sucked up by TI. Have more fun, Bob Smith -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Pick up of KS36000s From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 16:39:43 -0700 For those interested, here is a picture of the USGS warehouse and some of the personnel in Albuquerque, NM. http://www.keckec.com/images/USGSabq-wh.jpg From the right are John Abbott, USGS Al Garcia, USGS Dr. Bob Hutt, USGS Vern Stoup, USGS Raul Alvarez, PSN Karl Cunningham, PSN and in the foreground are some of the borehole seismometers. All of the USGS people there were extremely helpful. If fact, they did most of the work loading while Raul and I watched. I am very fortunate to have gotten a seismometer, and it was through the generosity of Dr. Hutt and the USGS that any of us did. Thank you! And a big thank you to Angel Rodriguez for alerting us to these in the first place. -- Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: unsubscribe From: sdk@............. Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:38:57 -0400 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: Paul Stimson pstimson@......... Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 20:56:46 -0700 unsubscribe sdk@............. wrote: > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: twleiper@........ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:23:19 -0400 The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator. Tom On Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:37 -0500 Angel Rodriguez writes: > Hello Larry, > > I have a 1500 watt inverter / charger and 4 GC4 batteries which add > up > to 440 amp hours of power. I can run 4 computers / hubs / radios > and > what not for about 15 - 20 hours depending on what's on. It > switches fast enough when the power > goes out that the computers don't notice. (less than 30 > milliseconds). > > No noise at all > > angel > > > Monday, May 07, 2001, 5:15:34 PM, you wrote: > > LC> Greetings, > > LC> With all of this talk about blackouts here in California I have > been > LC> thinking about getting a gas (propane?) generator. Can anyone > recommend a > LC> small reliable unit that's not to noisy? I would think a > 2500-3000 watt unit > LC> should be fine. I only want to power a couple of computers, > monitors, hubs, > LC> DSL modems and maybe a few florescent lights. I don't need to > power any > LC> heavy equipment like my refrigerator. > > LC> Thanks, > > LC> -Larry Cochrane > LC> Redwood City, PSN > > > LC> __________________________________________________________ > > LC> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > LC> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > LC> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > LC> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > > > > -- > Best regards, > > Angel > > www.volcanbaru.com > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:41:45 EDT In a message dated 10/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it > indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator. > A query Tom, a 5 hp engine will deliver 3.7 KW. Auto genertors are about 500W. It doesn't sound very efficient. Chris In a message dated 10/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

The ot her nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it
indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator.

      A query Tom, a 5 hp engine will deliver 3.7 KW. Auto genertors are
about 500W. It doesn't sound very efficient.

      Chris
Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:59:06 -0400 I don't think Tom meant to imply that it takes 5 HP to drive a basic automobile alternator. While 500W is fairly typical of generator age technology, the typical automobile alternator today delivers something more in the range of 50 to as much as 100A for larger automobiles. This is more like 1.2kW and would need more in the range of 2.0 HP to drive. Now, for long-term reliability one would want to very conservatively load the engine. So running a surplus 5 HP lawn tool engine at about 40% power doesn't strike me as very unreasonable for the goals stated. Bob Smith In a message dated 10/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator. A query Tom, a 5 hp engine will deliver 3.7 KW. Auto genertors are about 500W. It doesn't sound very efficient. Chris -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:59:30 EDT In a message dated 09/05/01, bobsmith5@........ writes: > For those interested in pursuing the "buck-boost" scheme where the input > voltage can be both above and below the target voltage it is also known > as a SEPIC topology. (Single Ended Primary Inductor Converter). > A relevant artical can be found at -- > > > Dear Bob, This circuit gives 5V @ 100mA. I don't quite understand how is this relevant to the power applications of some hundreds of watts which were being discussed. Can you explain, please? Regards, Chris In a message dated 09/05/01, bobsmith5@........ writes:

For th ose interested in pursuing the "buck-boost" scheme where the input
voltage can be both above and below the target voltage it is also known
as a SEPIC topology.  (Single Ended Primary Inductor Converter).
A relevant artical can be found at --


http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/dn48.shtm


Dear Bob,
      This circuit gives 5V @ 100mA. I don't quite understand how is this
relevant to the power applications of some hundreds of watts which were being
discussed. Can you explain, please?
      Regards, Chris Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:39:46 EDT In a message dated 5/10/01 7:11:22 AM GMT Daylight Time, twleiper@........ writes: << The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator. >> Thanks Tom, You have convinced me. I am giving up my plan to use multiple batteries to power my computer direct with DC current. I like Angel's setup much better and in the end it will be cheaper and less trouble. Charging the batteries with an auto alternator and its regulator if the power goes off and stays off for long periods of time is a better way to go. Driving the alternator with a 5 HP engine from a discarded snow blower or whatever is much cheaper than buying an expensive Honda generator. I just happen to have a 5-HP Briggs and Stratton engine that I salvaged from an old snow blower somebody set out at the curb for garbage pickup. So please, Angel, tell me more details about your 1500 Watt inverter/charger. I'd like to get one. Best regards and thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:32:58 -0400 Chris -- Really quite simple. The intent of the post was to introduce the existence of the buck-boost/SEPIC topology to the readers who seem intent on designing a lead-acid source converter for PCs. This cannot, from a practical point of view, be done with simple buck or boost topology converters to derive a +12V supply from a (nominal) 12.6V battery. It, certainly, can be done with a transformer based flyback topology but, this is a complex exercise in magnetics design that would probably scare off the average reader. The design note that I chose was selected because it is a) easily accessible, and b) pretty easy to understand. I thought at the time that it would be quite obvious that it would have needed to be scaled up to the power levels needed to drive a PC. That appears to be an error in judgment on my part for which I apologize. Thank you for requesting this clarification, Bob Smith -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "Randall Pratt" randallpratts@.......... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:25:27 -0500 Hello, I haven't been able to access quake@................. for some time now. = Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an = alternate site for this info. I have tried = http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/QUAKES/WEEKREPS/LATEST/index.html which will connect and shows download of data but only shows up as a = blank report. Regards, Randy
Hello,
 
I haven't been able to access quake@................. for = some time=20 now.  Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of = an=20 alternate site for this info.  I have tried http:= //quake.wr.usgs.gov/QUAKES/WEEKREPS/LATEST/index.html
which will connect and shows download = of data but=20 only shows up as a blank report.
 
Regards,
Randy
Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:30:22 -0700 Randy -- I've been having problems accessing that finger server from home but not from work. Don't know why. In any case, there is a web-based gateway to the finger server at: http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/finger?quake@................. karl At 10:25 AM 5/10/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I haven't been able to access >quake@................. for some time >now. Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an >alternate site for this info. I have tried >http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/QUAKES/WEEKREPS/LATEST/index.html >which will connect and shows download of data but only shows up as a blank >report. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:50:48 EDT Randy, Have you tried http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/bulletin.html ? The home page is http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/index.html click on 'Latest Quake Info'. The helicorder displays work for me. Regards, Chris Randy,

      Have you tried http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/bulletin.html ?
      The home page is http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/index.html click on 'Latest
Quake Info'. The helicorder displays work for me.

      Regards,

      Chris
Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: RLLaney@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:06:25 EDT Yes Randy, I am having the same trouble and know of at least one other PSN person who is also. Bob Laney Herndon, VA __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:51:21 -0500 Hello Cap, I will take some photos an post them to a web site so you can take a look. My wiring is an embarsing mess but I take the pics none the less angel Thursday, May 10, 2001, 8:39:46 AM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 5/10/01 7:11:22 AM GMT Daylight Time, twleiper@........ Cac> writes: Cac> << The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that Cac> you can power it indefintely with a 5 hp engine Cac> driving an old auto alternator. >> Cac> Thanks Tom, Cac> You have convinced me. I am giving up my plan to use multiple batteries to Cac> power my computer direct with DC current. I like Angel's setup much better Cac> and in the end it will be cheaper and less trouble. Charging the batteries Cac> with an auto alternator and its regulator if the power goes off and stays off Cac> for long periods of time is a better way to go. Driving the alternator with Cac> a 5 HP engine from a discarded snow blower or whatever is much cheaper than Cac> buying an expensive Honda generator. I just happen to have a 5-HP Briggs and Cac> Stratton engine that I salvaged from an old snow blower somebody set out at Cac> the curb for garbage pickup. Cac> So please, Angel, tell me more details about your 1500 Watt inverter/charger. Cac> I'd like to get one. Cac> Best regards and thanks, Cac> Cap Cac> __________________________________________________________ Cac> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Cac> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with Cac> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe Cac> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: Gas Generator recommendations From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:52:06 -0500 Hello Cap, Thursday, May 10, 2001, 8:39:46 AM, you wrote: Cac> So please, Angel, tell me more details about your 1500 Watt inverter/charger. Cac> I'd like to get one. http://www.volcanbaru.com/gardengate/trace/MVC-014F.JPG http://www.volcanbaru.com/gardengate/trace/MVC-015F.JPG AC power comes from a panel with breakers to the knife switch which also has 60 amp fuses in it. From the stitch the AC goes to the inverter inputs. The inverter AC outputs go to a panel that feed my hobby room and all computers and seismo stuff and several misc. light in the house. The big red and black cables (#2) go to the inverter DC inputs through a fuse and through a shunt. When grid power is on the DR1512 is charging the batteries and passing the AC to its output. When the grid power fails or at an adjustable low voltage the charger is turned off and the inverter turned on in less than 28 ms, fast enough that all of my computers stay alive. I also have a set of solar panels that can give some charge during the day if the power is off and in that way extend about 20% the time that the batteries last. The batteries are GC4 6 volts 220 amp/hour wired in series and parallel. With the monitors turned off I can go 15 to 20 hours without grid power and with a little bit of solar help, I can go longer. My system draws about 15 DC amps without monitors, 25 to 35 with al monitors on. I have a big monitor that draw a bunch. regards, angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Need a BIG can opener for the KS36k....ha. From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:08:28 -0700 Karl, Any specifics on opening up the KS36000 seismo with the manuel? I note the one I got, has 2 indications of failure, one is the hand written word "inop", and there is a loose object therein, that clunked around when loading at Albuquerque. I suspect it may need a huge anchored pipe vise and wrench as it likely may have threaded sections....or special tools combo to do so. It would be nice to confirm damage, and go from there, in regard to any disposition or possible repair. Anyone else having success at opening a unit? Thanks, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:11:00 -0700 Randy and others, The finger service at quake@................. works for me. I'm not sure = why others can't access it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randall Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:25 AM Subject: Network Event Reports in WinQuake Hello, I haven't been able to access quake@................. for some time = now. Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an = alternate site for this info. I have tried = http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/QUAKES/WEEKREPS/LATEST/index.html which will connect and shows download of data but only shows up as a = blank report. Regards, Randy
Randy and others,
 
The finger service at quake@................. = works for=20 me. I'm not sure why others can't access it.
 
-Larry Cochrane
Redwood City, PSN
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randall Pratt
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 = 8:25=20 AM
Subject: Network Event Reports = in=20 WinQuake

Hello,
 
I haven't been able to access quake@................. = for some=20 time now.  Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall = mention of=20 an alternate site for this info.  I have tried http:= //quake.wr.usgs.gov/QUAKES/WEEKREPS/LATEST/index.html
which will connect and shows download = of data but=20 only shows up as a blank report.
 
Regards,
Randy
Subject: Re: Need a BIG can opener for the KS36k....ha. From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:03:28 EDT In a message dated 11/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes: > Any specifics on opening up the KS36000 seismo with the manual? I suspect > it may need a huge anchored pipe vise and wrench as it likely may have > Hi there Meredith, If you look at the KS36K photo that you posted, you will see that the bottom cap is threaded. The thread looks coarse and normal. There will probably be a O ring seal. It would be reasonable to expect the top cap to be threaded also. There appears to be a cap nut right on the bottom which also unscrews. Look for any holes on the periphery of the end piece that could be used with a C spanner, or on the end face which could hold pins from a flat ring? Otherwise, use a chain wrench? Can you hire large chain vice stands for water pipes? The internal support column looks like several short lengths of heavy wall tube bolted together. Sections of the wall are cut away. Regards, Chris In a message dated 11/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes:

Any sp ecifics on opening up the KS36000 seismo with the manual? I suspect
it may need a huge anchored pipe vise and wrench as it likely may have
threaded sections....or special tools combo to do so.

Hi there Meredith,

      If you look at the KS36K photo that you posted, you will see that the
bottom cap is threaded. The thread looks coarse and normal. There will
probably be a O ring seal. It would be reasonable to expect the top cap to be
threaded also. There appears to be a cap nut right on the bottom which also
unscrews. Look for any holes on the periphery of the end piece that could be
used with a C spanner, or on the end face which could hold pins from a flat
ring? Otherwise, use a chain wrench? Can you hire large chain vice stands for
water pipes? The internal support column looks like several short lengths of
heavy wall tube bolted together. Sections of the wall are cut away.

Regards, Chris Subject: Re: Re[2]: Gas Generator recommendations From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:23:47 EDT In a message dated 5/10/01 11:58:06 PM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ writes: Hello Cap, Thursday, May 10, 2001, 8:39:46 AM, you wrote: Cac> So please, Angel, tell me more details about your 1500 Watt inverter/charger. Cac> I'd like to get one Thanks, Angel, for the pictures of your system at these sites: http://www.volcanbaru.com/gardengate/trace/MVC-014F.JPG http://www.volcanbaru.com/gardengate/trace/MVC-015F.JPG Thanks too, for the description below of your setup. Something very similar will fill my needs very nicely. I am presently building a house back in the woods about a half mile from the main road where I would have to connect to the power grid. I live on top of a mountain and most of the utility poles would have to be set in 6-foot deep holes drilled into bed rock. The cost of bringing power in to my house would be more than it cost to build the house !! I therefore plan on living off the grid. At present I have a 2 1/2 kW gas driven generator we used to run the cement mixer and power the big drill needed to drill holes for pins that anchor my foundation to the bedrock on which it sits. In order to get the certificate of occupancy that the town requires, I must have electricity for my submerged well pump so I have water to flush the toilet and fill the septic system so they can reinspect it to make sure it works the way it is designed to work. I will install your DR1512 system and then I will only need to run the generator once a day to charge the batteries. The rest of the time the inverter will run my computers and seismo as well as the refrigerator and washing machine and pump my water from the well. Many thanks for showing me this very good way to live off the grid. Tall trees surround my house so solar cells wouldn't get much sunlight. Best regards, Cap << AC power comes from a panel with breakers to the knife switch which also has 60 amp fuses in it. From the switch the AC goes to the inverter inputs. The inverter AC outputs go to a panel that feed my hobby room and all computers and seismo stuff and several misc. lights in the house. The big red and black cables (#2) go to the inverter DC inputs through a fuse and through a shunt. When grid power is on the DR1512 is charging the batteries and passing the AC to its output. When the grid power fails or at an adjustable low voltage the charger is turned off and the inverter turned on in less than 28 ms, fast enough that all of my computers stay alive. I also have a set of solar panels that can give some charge during the day if the power is off and in that way extend about 20% the time that the batteries last. The batteries are GC4 6 volts 220 amp/hour wired in series and parallel. With the monitors turned off I can go 15 to 20 hours without grid power and with a little bit of solar help, I can go longer. My system draws about 15 DC amps without monitors, 25 to 35 with all monitors on. I have a big monitor that draw a bunch. >> Regards, Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: wait for manual for KS36000 From: sean@........... Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:36:46 -0500 (CDT) Meredith (and others who were lucky enough to get a KS36000), We know that the experimenters' axiom is "if all else fails, read the manual". However, by then guesswork and excessive force may have rendered the object of interest useless. I speak from heartbreaking experience, having irrevocably ruined the seals of a delicate sensor. I'm sure that the KS36k manual explains how to service the instrument, which would include opening it properly. May I encourage you to wait for your copy of the manual; you have waited this long for the seis; a little longer won't hurt that much. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: twleiper@........ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:12:02 -0400 Execpt you want the 5 HP engine to put away at about 1500 RPM with a nice quite muffler, and run about a three to one belt/gear drive to get the alternator up to the 3K to 4K rpm range. In that configuration your 5 HP engine is more like a 2 HP engine, and it will run for a very long time and very efficiently. A standard 60 amp alternator will deliver 750 watts, and you could always get an old cop alternator that does twice that. Diesel cars also have beefed up electrical systems. I had a diesel Rabbit years ago that had an 80 amp alternator. In any case, with plenty of battery storage, you would just size things for your average anticipated load. Tom On Thu, 10 May 2001 06:41:45 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: > In a message dated 10/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > > > The other nice thing about Angel's setup is that you can power it > > indefintely with a 5 hp engine driving an old auto alternator. > > > A query Tom, a 5 hp engine will deliver 3.7 KW. Auto > genertors are > about 500W. It doesn't sound very efficient. > > Chris > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "Randall Pratt" randallpratts@.......... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:23:24 -0500 Larry and others, Thanks for the replies and alternate links. That report service has = worked nearly perfectly for me for about a year and a half. In the last = couple of months it began giving trouble during the day but working in = late evening so I suspected server time being dedicated elswhere. Then = about 3 weeks ago all stopped. I have reconfigured my system with the = addition of a LAN card and network software about the time problems = started and now have reconfigured windows after a sever crash including = an upgrade of IExplorer. Maybe someone else has similar experience that = may lead to a solution. Randy
Larry and others,
 
Thanks for the replies and alternate = links. =20 That report service has worked nearly perfectly for me for about a year = and a=20 half.  In the last couple of months it began giving trouble during = the day=20 but working in late evening so I suspected server time being dedicated=20 elswhere.  Then about 3 weeks ago all stopped.  I have = reconfigured my=20 system with the addition of a LAN card and network software about the = time=20 problems started and now have reconfigured windows after a sever crash = including=20 an upgrade of IExplorer.  Maybe someone else has similar experience = that=20 may lead to a solution.
Randy
Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "Larry Conklin" lconklin@............ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:25:52 -0400 Randy, Count me as another that has been having the same problem. My = experience has been virtually identical to yours. However, I haven't = made any significant changes to my system or installed software since = before I started to have problems. It is interesting that some people = have not been having problems. I wonder if there is any correlation = with the location of the people who are experiencing this problem? Larry Conklin lconklin@............ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randall Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake Larry and others, Thanks for the replies and alternate links. That report service has = worked nearly perfectly for me for about a year and a half. In the last = couple of months it began giving trouble during the day but working in = late evening so I suspected server time being dedicated elswhere. Then = about 3 weeks ago all stopped. I have reconfigured my system with the = addition of a LAN card and network software about the time problems = started and now have reconfigured windows after a sever crash including = an upgrade of IExplorer. Maybe someone else has similar experience that = may lead to a solution. Randy
Randy,
 
Count me as another that has been having the same=20 problem.  My experience has been virtually identical to = yours. =20 However, I haven't made any significant changes to my system or = installed=20 software since before I started to have problems.  It is = interesting that=20 some people have not been having problems.  I wonder if there is = any=20 correlation with the location of the people who are experiencing this=20 problem?
 
Larry Conklin
lconklin@............
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randall Pratt
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 = 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Network Event = Reports in=20 WinQuake

Larry and others,
 
Thanks for the replies and alternate = links. =20 That report service has worked nearly perfectly for me for about a = year and a=20 half.  In the last couple of months it began giving trouble = during the=20 day but working in late evening so I suspected server time being = dedicated=20 elswhere.  Then about 3 weeks ago all stopped.  I have = reconfigured=20 my system with the addition of a LAN card and network software about = the time=20 problems started and now have reconfigured windows after a sever crash = including an upgrade of IExplorer.  Maybe someone else has = similar=20 experience that may lead to a solution.
Randy
Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:03:31 EDT In a message dated 11/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > Except you want the 5 HP engine to put away at about 1500 RPM with a nice > quite muffler, and run about a three to one belt/gear drive to get the > alternator up to > the 3K to 4K rpm range. In that configuration your 5 HP engine is more like > a 2 HP engine, and it will run for a very long time and very efficiently. > A standard 60 amp alternator will deliver 750 watts, and you could always > get an old cop alternator that does twice that. Diesel cars also have > beefed up electrical systems. In any case, with plenty of battery storage, > Since we are considering fairly high power systems, providing two 12 V storage batteries for a 24 V system and two 750 W alternators to charge them would give a better match to the downrated 5 HP engine. This might be a better option than using 24 V alternators. (1500 W at 12 V = 125 A. If you are use a C/5 battery drain (discharge in 5 hr), this requires > 625 AHr storage = very large battery.) Could be more practical to use two 12 V batteries in series of ~300 AHr. It may be better to keep the current down by increasing the voltage. Getting good connections and low cable loss gets more difficult as the currents increase. You also have to allow for battery life considerations. 1,500 W is probably OK for the computer and other equipment being considered, but it is not a lot of power to run a whole house as well. There is a lot of useful information on a variety of inverter systems and equipment, mains, solar and generator assisted for driving a wide variety of loads at:- http://store.yahoo.com/wind-sun/index.html Regards, Chris In a message dated 11/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

Except you want the 5 HP engine to put away at about 1500 RPM with a nice
quite muffler, and run about a three to one belt/gear drive to get the
alternator up to
the 3K to 4K rpm range. In that configuration your 5 HP engine is more like
a 2 HP engine, and it will run for a very long time and very efficiently.
A standard 60 amp alternator will deliver 750 watts, and you could always
get an old cop alternator that does twice that. Diesel cars also have
beefed up electrical systems. In any case, with plenty of battery storage,
you would just size things for your average anticipated load.


      Since we are considering fairly high power systems, providing two 12 V
storage batteries for a 24 V system and two 750 W alternators to charge them
would give a better match to the downrated 5 HP engine. This might be a
better option than using 24 V alternators. (1500 W at 12 V = 125 A. If you
are use a C/5 battery drain (discharge in 5 hr), this requires > 625 AHr
storage = very large battery.) Could be more practical to use two 12 V
batteries in series of ~300 AHr. It may be better to keep the current down by
increasing the voltage. Getting good connections and low cable loss gets more
difficult as the currents increase. You also have to allow for battery life
considerations. 1,500 W is probably OK for the computer and other equipment
being considered, but it is not a lot of power to run a whole house as well.

      There is a lot of useful information on a variety of inverter systems
and equipment, mains, solar and generator assisted for driving a wide variety
of loads at:- http://store.yahoo.com/wind-sun/index.html

Regards,

Chris Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: DMo6117771@....... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:47:48 EDT unsubscribe unsubscribe Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: RLLaney@....... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:48:09 EDT I and one other PSN member suspect that the problems started on our systems after the latest Winquake beta update. Does this jive with what others observed who are having the problem? Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: unsubscribe From: Paul Stimson pstimson@......... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:47:59 -0700 unsubscribe __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:55:15 -0700 People, if you want to unsubscribe from this list please read the note that's attached with every PSN-L message. Here it is again.... Please DO NOT send command messages to the PSN-L list (PSN-L@................ Send them to PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. I must admit I don't understand my people can't read simple directions..... -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stimson" To: Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: unsubscribe > > > unsubscribe > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 19:29:25 -0600 Gentlemen and Ladies: What is with all the unsubscribes lately? Is is widespread frustration over not getting one of the very complex seismos that will be a major challenge to get to work or is it this endless rambling on about hydrocarbon powered generators. Seriously folks, this discussion has really gotten old-when the power grid finally crashes in California, do you truly think you will be able to run your hydrocarbon-fueled generator "indefinately". The smart money will go with photovoltaic panels and a modern, efficient inverter. The power needs of a complex seismic station can easily be provided by a battery powered UPS for the AC stuff and most low voltage instrumentation operated directly from battery power. We are fortunate to have perhaps the world expert on this topic, Sean-Thomas Morrissey at SLU. If you don't have a clue where to purchase good, low cost solar panels, please email me. The rationing of the USGS seismos was unpleasant for all-I had 2 units promised to local schools here in the Denver area and those teachers are mighty disappointed. Fusion power is here and at a fairly safe distance away(93,000,000+miles) Avail yourselves to the many sources of low-cost solar panels! Vaya con Dios, D. Latsch Paul Stimson wrote: > unsubscribe > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 21:58:02 EDT Larry, I suspect that this is spam / hacker. Are the return addresses known to you? Chris Larry,

      I suspect that this is spam / hacker. Are the return addresses known
to you?

      Chris Subject: Re: Latsch Comments From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 20:40:43 -0700 Dear Mr. Latsch, Whenever there is a limited supply of an item, as there was with the USGS seismos, some who want one will not get one. In my opinion, the ground rules were clearly defined and adhered to, and even though I did not want one for my own use, the exchange of ideas and negotiations among PSN members was interesting reading as well as civil and fair. It seems to me that those who did the work of correspondence with Dr. Hutt, having the manual copied, and arranging pickup of the instruments were at the head of the line, which is as it should be. Unless I missed your post to the PSN list, I don't recall your having volunteered to do any of the heavy lifting. That you made a promise to deliver two of the units before you were assured of taking possession of them is an error of judgement on your part, and certainly doesn't reflect on any of the other members on the PSN list. I rather enjoyed and was informed by what you call the "endless rambling on about hydrocarbon powered generators". I think many of us learned something, especially from Angel's description of his system. Solar panels capable of producing one or more kWh per day are far from "cheap". A panel producing 1 kWh per day would be rated at 250 watts peak power which, including a mounting frame will cost between two and three thousand dollars. At higher latitudes, the peak power requirement increases due to the low angle of the sun much of the year. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "Randall Pratt" randallpratts@.......... Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 23:01:57 -0500 It's definitely not the new release in my case as I haven't updated WinQuake. Randy -----Original Message----- From: RLLaney@....... To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, May 11, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake I and one other PSN member suspect that the problems started on our systems after the latest Winquake beta update. Does this jive with what others observed who are having the problem? Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:07:24 +1000 At 10:25 10/05/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > >I haven't been able to access quake@................. for some time now. Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an alternate site for this info. I have tried i havent been able to access any usgs site for almost 2 weeks aslwww, neic etc nothing comes up cant dind dns entry error any of their sites that end in.... .cr.usgs.gov or .wr.usgs.gov yet tony in hawaii has no problem beats me as to what's going on Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: A "old" magnet/coil combo suggestion From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 00:04:11 -0700 Hi all, Back again on the same subject, but only this time with alittle more teeth, as both items are available for those seeking to build their first seismometer sensors, or improve a existing sensor design/approach on their model/s. I acquired a number of coils from a E-Bay auction, and am willing to donate to those wishing to build seismometers. Once the pile runs out; thats all their is. The coils aren't professional grade material, but are a adoption to a commercially available four pole or two discrete magnets old computer assembly which I think is more than adequate as a major part of a overall sensor unit. Due to postage costs, I'am presently limiting mailings to those in the U.S.A. Check out this web site page at: http://www.geocities.com/meredithlamb/page064.html For those NOT interested in the coils, the magnets themselves are probably worth obtaining to check out with their own coils. Of course, thats my own opinion which isn't backed by a lab.. ....ha. Anyway....all this "might" save some time for the newbies and oldies, and perhaps even make for a successful amateur seismic operation where it might not occur at all. The web site also has references to other varieties of seismometers etc....just leave off the page064 stuff on the above address. Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: twleiper@........ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 03:23:05 -0400 On Fri, 11 May 2001 12:03:31 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: > In a message dated 11/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > > > Except you want the 5 HP engine to put away at about 1500 RPM with [edited] > > > > Since we are considering fairly high power systems, providing > two 12 V > storage batteries for a 24 V system and two 750 W alternators to > charge them [edited] > 1,500 W is probably OK for the computer and other > equipment > being considered, but it is not a lot of power to run a whole house > as well. > The 24V is a very attractive option, but you quickly get back into serious money unless you are quite lucky. 24V inverters are not easy to come by, and two 12v ones are probably cheaper. About ten years ago I WAS lucky in that I could tell that a non-descipt box with a giant cannon receptacle on one end was, in fact, a 2KW inverter used to power the accessory/shaver outlets in an airliner. This is a very nice unit with sine wave output, excellent regulation (including load controlled cooling fan speed), buss syncronization and all weighing about 10 lbs. It run on 24 volts as well. I bought it for $20 and, after reverse-engineering it by drawing out schematics, put it to use in my SWL /seismo shack to power almost the same loads Larry is talking about. A couple computers and 160W of flourescent lighting. The average load is about 500W if my 20" Sun monitors are off, 1KW otherwise. The battery bank consists of two 110 AH PowerOne Gell cells in series, and is also used to power an R-392 military tube receiver that has been on for ten years. I charge the batteries and power the radio with a 5 amp current limited power supply. When power is interrupted, a simple adjustable "delay-on" relay "falls off" and switches the load. The inverter runs at all times and, thanks to its "sense" input, remains syncronized with the line. It draws little power in the no-load state, and the relay is easily fast enough for the switching supply in the computers. When power is restored, the relay times out about a minute and then switches the load back to the line. I also have a simple lightning / static detector amplifier system that will switch to the inverter and cut the modem lines when thunderstorms are nearby. For the rest of the house I have a very conservatively rated 5 kw military four cylinder water cooled gas generator from 1960 with a Hercules engine and Leyland generator. It is 120V, and, before I built my automatic transfer switch, I had a manual transfer switch that powered both legs in parallel, thus cutting out all the big loads like the range, oven and dryer. Being military, the generator has a 24v charging and cranking system which I could use to charge the inverter batteries, but I don't. The inverter just keeps the computers going while the generator starts. Later, I installed a 100A sub panel with just the standby loads so the generator could start automatically without being over-loaded. The generator gets regular exercise under load of about a half hour every other week in the summer and every week during the winter. Actual outages average about 15 hrs a year, but there are years where the actual time may have only been minutes, and one Nor'easter year it ran 80 hrs for one storm alone. The 5KW generator easily powers a fridge, a freezer, oil fired boiler, well pump, hot water circulator (heat water with oil and/or 80 gal electric) a large TV and a couple computers, as well as enough lights to move around in the 6,000 sq ft home. I have a KWH meter on the generator, and the cumulative average load has been 2.1 KW at night and half that during the day. The only caution in this example is the fact that this particular generator has greater than average capability to start motor loads because of the high torque of the four cylinder (13HP) engine and rather large rotating mass...the whole thing weighs 750 lbs. A "lawn mower" type generator of the same 5KW size would probably require you to stagger your motor loads. One load you should avoid is ceiling fans. These are series-wound and draw an amazing amount of current while starting, as does the the oil burner blower motor. If the head pressure has not had enough time to bleed down, your fridge will hammer down a small generator as well. In any event, having worked with both these power sources for many years, and helped friends and family members design and install or restore similar systems, I would not recommend the inverter for anything other than what Larry started this thread about...resistive and light inductive loads. Certainly no motors beyond drills and sewing machines. But you will be suprised what you can do with 1 KW of load, and that would easily be supported by the 12V 80A alternator and putt-putt Briggs Stratton. And if you want to power intermittent bigger loads just get a 2 to 3 KW inverter and plenty of battery (current) capacity. Then you can use the hair dryer, hot plate, electric frying pan (remember them?) or coffee maker. The putt- putt will deliver its kilowatt and the batteries the rest. Speaking of batteries, my favorite local scrap yard has main-frame UPS pulls that are Gel in the 80 to 100 AH range for about $20 each. Some of these are rated for a ten year service life and may only be half used. They have skids of them. Sorry for the long post, but trust me, it will work. Tom __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 08:31:27 -0700 Here's my guess ... I suspect a firewall on the usgs system is blocking access from certain addresses. I tried quake@................. from work and simultaneously from home (via an ssh link to a computer at home). The work connection was fine but my home connection got nothing. At home I use @home cable-modem service and a different provider at work. I wonder if they've had problems with hackers attacking from cable systems? Karl --On Saturday, May 12, 2001 15:07 +1000 "David A. Nelson" wrote: > At 10:25 10/05/01 -0500, you wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I haven't been able to access quake@................. for some time now. > Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an alternate > site for this info. I have tried > > i havent been able to access any usgs site for almost 2 weeks > > aslwww, neic etc nothing comes up cant dind dns entry error > any of their sites that end in.... > > .cr.usgs.gov or .wr.usgs.gov > > yet tony in hawaii has no problem beats me as to what's going on > > Dave > > Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN > 13 Monash Rd., > Gladesville, (Sydney) > 2111 > NSW, Australia > > http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm > > IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the > knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red > Ferrari > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:53:57 -0600 Karl: Our large mainframe at NOAA here in Boulder is constantly probed by criminals attempting to trash whatever they can. Many of the efforts are from European/Scandinavian countries are there is no letup. Cable is no different-criminals access the Net by all paths. You are likely running into the "firewall" on the USGS system. All this due to the brain-impaired scum who seem to think? it is fun to destroy files in another's computer. Good luck. PS My observations on solar panels were toward operating a seismic station, not an entire typical home. For that you would have to chuck the refridgerator for a version designed to run without commercial grid AC. Same for AC/heat. Yes, a rather costly setup. If there is no AC grid, it will be very difficult to convince your local gas station to pump fuel by any means other than through the electrically-powered pumps. Nasty problem............ D. Latsch Karl Cunningham wrote: > Here's my guess ... > > I suspect a firewall on the usgs system is blocking access from certain > addresses. I tried quake@................. from work and simultaneously > from home (via an ssh link to a computer at home). The work connection was > fine but my home connection got nothing. At home I use @home cable-modem > service and a different provider at work. > > I wonder if they've had problems with hackers attacking from cable systems? > > Karl > > --On Saturday, May 12, 2001 15:07 +1000 "David A. Nelson" > wrote: > > > At 10:25 10/05/01 -0500, you wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I haven't been able to access quake@................. for some time now. > > Is any one else having problems? I seem to recall mention of an alternate > > site for this info. I have tried > > > > i havent been able to access any usgs site for almost 2 weeks > > > > aslwww, neic etc nothing comes up cant dind dns entry error > > any of their sites that end in.... > > > > .cr.usgs.gov or .wr.usgs.gov > > > > yet tony in hawaii has no problem beats me as to what's going on > > > > Dave > > > > Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN > > 13 Monash Rd., > > Gladesville, (Sydney) > > 2111 > > NSW, Australia > > > > http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm > > > > IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the > > knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red > > Ferrari > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: mprice@........ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:16:07 -0700 I tried this from my home system. It didn't work. I checked my firewall logs and the problem was that my firewall was blocking incoming finger packets. I changed the firewall to allow connections from the finger port of remote systems. After that change, it worked fine. I see no evidence that the USGS system's firewall is selectively blocking access. Mike Price Karl Cunningham wrote: > > Here's my guess ... > > I suspect a firewall on the usgs system is blocking access from certain > addresses. I tried quake@................. from work and simultaneously > from home (via an ssh link to a computer at home). The work connection was > fine but my home connection got nothing. At home I use @home cable-modem > service and a different provider at work. > > I wonder if they've had problems with hackers attacking from cable systems? > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: Mohadevan mohadevan@......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Dear Mr Recla, I am a postgraduate student, interested in geotechnical earthquake engineering. I will be thankful to you if you could send me the Seismogram analysis file , Thankyou. Regards, Mohadevan ===== N.Mohadevan, Department of Civil Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, University of Peradeniya, Sri Lanka. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:42:16 -0700 I am able to get through to other finger servers, such as nasanews@.............. but not quake@.................. So I don't think the problem is at my end. It might be interesting for others having problems to try another finger server as well, just to test their own systems. Karl --On Saturday, May 12, 2001 10:16 -0700 mprice@........ wrote: > I tried this from my home system. It didn't work. I checked > my firewall logs and the problem was that my firewall was blocking > incoming finger packets. I changed the firewall to allow > connections from the finger port of remote systems. After > that change, it worked fine. I see no evidence that the > USGS system's firewall is selectively blocking access. > > Mike Price > > > > Karl Cunningham wrote: >> >> Here's my guess ... >> >> I suspect a firewall on the usgs system is blocking access from certain >> addresses. I tried quake@................. from work and simultaneously >> from home (via an ssh link to a computer at home). The work connection >> was fine but my home connection got nothing. At home I use @home >> cable-modem service and a different provider at work. >> >> I wonder if they've had problems with hackers attacking from cable >> systems? >> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Network Event Reports in WinQuake From: RLLaney@....... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:14:12 EDT I can connect to all but two of the other "quake@" finger sites, but not to quake@.................. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:54:30 -0700 Hi all, Interesting USGS articles on some ground uplift near a volcano in Oregon, between 1996 and 2000. See: http://www.usgs.gov/ Enter in "Oregon uplift" in the search box there. Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: "Bob Hancock" robert.hancock@........... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:51:55 -0400 Its interesting reading - Here is the complete web site address..... http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/information_statement ----- Original Message ----- From: "meredith lamb" To: Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano > Hi all, > > Interesting USGS articles on some ground uplift near a volcano > in Oregon, between 1996 and 2000. See: > > http://www.usgs.gov/ > > Enter in "Oregon uplift" in the search box there. > > Regards, Meredith Lamb > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: "Bob Hancock" robert.hancock@........... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:51:55 -0400 Its interesting reading - Here is the complete web site address..... http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/information_statement ----- Original Message ----- From: "meredith lamb" To: Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano > Hi all, > > Interesting USGS articles on some ground uplift near a volcano > in Oregon, between 1996 and 2000. See: > > http://www.usgs.gov/ > > Enter in "Oregon uplift" in the search box there. > > Regards, Meredith Lamb > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:21 -0700 That page is unavailable now. Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:58:08 EDT In a message dated 13/05/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes: > That page is unavailable now. > Go to http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/ Regards, Chris In a message dated 13/05/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes:

That p age is unavailable now.

Go to http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/

      Regards,

      Chris

Subject: Re: Oregon ground uplift near South Sister Volcano From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 21:35:15 -0700 Apparently other areas of the earth have had similar episodes, but unfortunately at least in the articles; they don't really get into detail at all....in the sense of any kind of a "forecast" of what might or could, or has happened in other areas for example. I suppose its rather totally unpredictable, and could deflate with time possibly. I'am glad they do have the tools to see the change over time. I'am amazed with the huge area of uplift they show. Regards, Meredith Lamb ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 13/05/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes: > > >> That page is unavailable now. > > > Go to http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/ > > Regards, > > Chris > Apparently other areas of the earth have had similar episodes,
but unfortunately at least in the articles; they don't really get
into detail at all....in the sense of any kind of a "forecast" of
what might or could, or has happened in other areas for example.
I suppose its rather totally unpredictable, and could deflate with
time possibly.  I'am glad they do have the tools to see the change
over time.  I'am amazed with the huge area of uplift they show.

Regards, Meredith Lamb

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 13/05/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes:
 
That page is unavailable now.


Go to http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/

      Regards,

      Chris
 

Subject: Damping From: "Office of Emperor Norton, Bummer and Lazarus" SFQUAKE06@........... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:48:24 -0700 Have you guys seen this web site?--- its on damping. http://www2.adnc.com/~topquark/fun/JAVA/dho/dho.html Dave Close sfquake06@...........
Have you guys seen this web site?--- its on=20 damping.
 
http://www2= ..adnc.com/~topquark/fun/JAVA/dho/dho.html
 
 
Dave Close
 
Subject: psn4 & winquake2.7 From: ian ian@........... Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 21:49:55 -1000 I've written a utility to convert my raw data files to psn4 format - still debugging/testing. I tried to load a file I created with this utility, but winquake doesn't show it in the open dialogue box, it shows only other psn (non 4) format files I downloaded from the psn site. Obviously there is a bug(s) in my utility. What does winquake look for in a file before deciding to list the file in the dialogue box? The StaLta utility seems to read my generated files, I used the psn.h file that came with this in my own utility. I have a 0 length (none) variable header and no CRC. TIA Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: psn4 & winquake2.7 From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 01:13:35 -0700 Ian, Here is the "C" code WinQuake uses to check for a good PSN Type 4 event file. It looks for a valid header ID, date, sample rate and sample count. Currently MAX_COUNTS is set to 2097152. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN /* returns TRUE is good file, FALSE if not */ int isgoodPSNType4(PSNType4 *hdr) { DateTime *st = &hdr->startTime; if(strncmp(hdr->headerID, "PSNTYPE4", 8)) return(FALSE); if(st->year < 1960 || st->year > 2200) return(FALSE); if(st->month < 1 || st->month > 12) return(FALSE); if(st->day < 1 || st->day > 31) return(FALSE); if(st->hour > 24 || st->minute > 60 || st->second > 60) return(FALSE); if(hdr->spsRate <= 0.0 || hdr->spsRate > 1000000.0) return(FALSE); if(hdr->sampleCount < 50 || hdr->sampleCount >= MAX_COUNTS) return(FALSE); return(TRUE); } ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian" To: Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 12:49 AM Subject: psn4 & winquake2.7 > I've written a utility to convert my raw data files to psn4 format - > still debugging/testing. I tried to load a file I created with this > utility, but winquake doesn't show it in the open dialogue box, it shows > only other psn (non 4) format files I downloaded from the psn site. > > Obviously there is a bug(s) in my utility. What does winquake look for > in a file before deciding to list the file in the dialogue box? > > The StaLta utility seems to read my generated files, I used the psn.h > file that came with this in my own utility. > > I have a 0 length (none) variable header and no CRC. > > TIA > > Ian Smith > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: M 6.8 quake not felt... From: Bob Fryer bfryer@............ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 01:48:50 -0700 Hi gang, Sorry I didn't post this sooner.... From The Oregonian (Portland) Sensors detect 'silent' quake A slow-motion movement in 1999 around the Puget Sound area unleashes energy equivalent to a big earthquake, scientists say Saturday, April 21, 2001 By Brent Hunsberger of The Oregonian staff Two summers ago, while the Seattle Mariners tried out their new baseball stadium, much of Puget Sound moved several millimeters west. The earth below unleashed as much power as February's 6.8-magnitude earthquake that cracked Washington's state Capitol dome.... You should be able to get the whole story from: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/news/oregonian/lc_71shift21. frame Note: URL includes word 'frame'. Take care, Bob F ----- earthquake WARNING research ----- --- animals, people, scientific evidence --- --- http://www.earthquakewarning.org --- __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Three Sisters Volcano Uplift From: "Bob Hancock" robert.hancock@........... Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 07:31:13 -0400 Here is the current link to the USGS report on the uplift of terrain = near the three sisters volcano. It includes a map and a link to the = full article http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/ground_uplift_may2= 001.html Bob Hancock
Here is the current link to the USGS = report on=20 the uplift of terrain near the three sisters volcano.  It includes = a map=20 and a link to the full article
 
http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Sisters/WestUplift/= ground_uplift_may2001.html
 
Bob Hancock
Subject: Re: psn4 & winquake2.7 From: ian ian@........... Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 06:32:58 -1000 Hi, thanks or the info. I found I was writing a 0 month. I can now read my files into Winquake! I just put in a pretty good trace I got yesterday. My files always contain 30 mins worth @ 20sps. I notice that it put the P & S markers in the wrong place, near the begining of the trace and the location a few thousand miles out. Are my long files the cause of this? I was also uncertain of what to put for sensitivity and magCorr, currently they are both set to 1.0. Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Event Reports follow up From: "Randall Pratt" randallpratts@.......... Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:03:55 -0500 I was successful using the link = http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/finger?quake@................. . I = can't make it work as an added service in WinQuake but I can save it to = my desktop using IExplorer and then open report file from WinQuake. =20 To follow up on some of the discusion, I tried all the services listed = in the network reports and was able to contact all of the originally = included quake@ type services. There are several services that I have = tried to add such as = http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/seismo.nrcan.gc.ca and = http://gldss7.cr.usgs.gov/neis/qed.html that will not work. = http://earthquake.usgs.gov/activity/world.html gives a server error. = Several other of the http type pages will send data but appear blank in = the window when completed downloading. I am using dialup in South = Dakota for web connection. Now the surprise, quake@................. began working again Sat = evening and several tries today. =20 Randy
I was successful using the link = http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/finger?quake@................. = .. =20 I can't make it work as an added service in WinQuake but I can save it = to my=20 desktop using IExplorer and then open report file from WinQuake. =20
 
To follow up on some of the discusion, = I tried all=20 the services listed in the network reports and was able to contact all = of the=20 originally included quake@ type services.  There are several = services that=20 I have tried to add such as http:/= /quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/seismo.nrcan.gc.ca =20 and http://gldss7.cr.usgs.go= v/neis/qed.html =20 that will not work.  http://earthquake= ..usgs.gov/activity/world.html=20 gives a server error.  Several other of the http type pages will = send data=20 but appear blank in the window when completed downloading.  I am = using=20 dialup in South Dakota for web connection.
 
Now the surprise,  quake@................. = began working=20 again Sat evening and several tries today. 
 
Randy
Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: "Ramon R Machuca" rmachu1@....... Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:47:01 -0500 From:psn-l-request@.............. on 05/11/2001 03:47 PM EDT Sent by: psn-l-request@.............. Please respond to psn-l@.............. To: psn-l@.............. cc: (bcc: Ramon R Machuca/rmachu1/LSU) Subject: Re: unsubscribe unsubscribe __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The Art of Unsubscribing From: "Michael J. Roseberry" mroseberry@......... Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Larry: It is possible that you need to take a closer look at the unsubscribe experience some folks are having. For example, I tried to unsubscribe myself just now and got a terse note at my REPLY address saying that I am unknown to the list. Well, I can assure you that I get LOTS of list traffic everyday, so that response is erroneous. Here is what I suggest might be the root cause of some of the recent problems people (like me) have been having when unsubscribing from the PSN list: apparently, when your list administrator [program] checks to see if an unsubscribe command came from someone on the list, it compares the RETURN ADDRESS field of the unsubscribe email against the "official" PSN member list for authenticatioin. Now if, as I have determined is the case for me, you are compiling the official PSN member list using the FROM ADDRESS of a subscribe email, then anyone on the list that is using a different REPLY ADDRESS will not be able to automatically unsubscribe. I (and presumably many others) choose to send email indicating a RETURN ADDRESS that is different from the FROM ADDRESS. Notice that SENDMAIL and other email delivery systems allow this option due to its utility: a person can SEND mail from home, work, at 35,000 feet, or from anywhere and still have the replys go to ONE place. To check my theory, I'm gonna temporarily change my RETURN ADDRESS to match my FROM ADDRESS and try again. Sooooooooo, if you never hear from me again, it worked! Regards, Michael J. Roseberry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: The Art of Unsubscribing From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:36:09 -0700 When unsubscribing, members must have the From: address set to the address used when they subscribing to the list. There is no way the mail server can know that mail is forwarded to a different address. Another problem people have is they sometimes use PSN-1 (one) instead of PSN-L as the list name. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Roseberry" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: The Art of Unsubscribing > Larry: > > It is possible that you need to take a closer look at the unsubscribe > experience some folks are having. > > For example, I tried to unsubscribe myself just now and got a terse > note at my REPLY address saying that I am unknown to the list. Well, I > can assure you that I get LOTS of list traffic everyday, so that > response is erroneous. > > Here is what I suggest might be the root cause of some of the recent > problems people (like me) have been having when unsubscribing from the > PSN list: apparently, when your list administrator [program] checks to > see if an unsubscribe command came from someone on the list, it > compares the RETURN ADDRESS field of the unsubscribe email against the > "official" PSN member list for authenticatioin. Now if, as I have > determined is the case for me, you are compiling the official PSN > member list using the FROM ADDRESS of a subscribe email, then anyone on > the list that is using a different REPLY ADDRESS will not be able to > automatically unsubscribe. I (and presumably many others) choose to > send email indicating a RETURN ADDRESS that is different from the FROM > ADDRESS. Notice that SENDMAIL and other email delivery systems allow > this option due to its utility: a person can SEND mail from home, > work, at 35,000 feet, or from anywhere and still have the replys go to > ONE place. > > To check my theory, I'm gonna temporarily change my RETURN ADDRESS to > match my FROM ADDRESS and try again. > > Sooooooooo, if you never hear from me again, it worked! > > Regards, > Michael J. Roseberry > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Event Reports follow up From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:50:08 -0700 >To follow up on some of the discusion, I tried all the services listed in the >network reports and was able to contact all of the originally included quake@ >type services. There are several services that I have tried to add such as >http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/seismo.nrcan.gc.ca and >http://gldss7.cr.usgs.gov/neis/qed.html that will not work. >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/activity/world.html gives a server error. Several other of the >http type pages will send data but appear blank in the window when completed >downloading Adding new network report services to WinQuake is a two step process. The service must be added to the network.dat file and the report.dat file must be updated with parsing information needed to pull out the data within the report file once it gets downloaded to your hard disk. Unfortunately none of this is documented so you will need to use exciting report services as a template. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple accelerometer articles from Sensors Magazine From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:40:21 -0700 Hi all, I note acouple articles at the Sensors Magazine web site that may, maynot be of interest. The first and most recent deals with what appears to be a new and as of yet non-production item? (no specific ID) by Applied MEMS Inc. Its a micromachined capactitive accelerometer and a custom mixed-signal, closed loop, force feedback ASIC. http://www.sensorsmag.com/articles/0501/52/main.shtml The second article (Feb 2001), deals with the newer design Analog Devices Inc., accelerometer ADXL202E http://www.sensorsmag.com/articles/0201/20/main.shtml Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Gas Generator recommendations From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:01:49 -0400 Just got my Spring 2001 flyer from HarborFreight. They show four models of Propane and NG generators, 10kW capacity, but cost is $2700-3000. One w/ Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine, one with Honda. LP or NG option for either. Look for item number 42885-1ARA at http://www.harborfreight.com or check your local retail store. There have been some pretty imaginative battery splitting schemes discussed. I've looked at the PC power supply problem in some depth a while back. The 12V supplies are difficult. 12V batteries range from about 13.8V down to 9V over the discharge cycle. This is both above and below the target voltage so a simple buck or simple boost converter is out. A full flyback design or a so called "buck-boost" converter is required. Perhaps a dual battery supply will be the simplest implementation for the home experimenter. 25.2V (nominal) DC input. +12V from a simple buck converter daisey chained to a +5V buck converter for 5V DC. Then a pair of inverting converters for -5V and -12V. Check out the National Semiconductor Simple Switcher line for an easy way to go on these. For those who want to go Hi-Rel or COTS, Use four batteries (nominal 48V) and a set of ViCor modules(bricks) intended for the telecommunications industry. But, $$$$ Bob Smith ian wrote: > > Capstone seems to have some very interesting products. Not sure what power > capacity they start at. See > http://www.capstoneturbine.com/distributor/index.asp > > Ian Smith > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 manuals From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:14:50 -0700 Hi all -- The manuals arrived from the USGS in ABQ. Thanks go to Ms. Tommie Teeter, administrative assistant, for very prompt copying and shipping. There are two manuals, one for the seismometer and one for the test set / controller (TSC). The manual that covers the 36000 is actually for a Model 43300 Multichannel Sensor System, which apparently the 36000 is part of. It appears to be complete up to change level 6. There is a LOT of stuff here. These manuals appear to be very detailed, showing schematics, exploded views, parts lists, and detailed operation and maintenance procedures. All in all, they are about two inches thick. Here is a tally of the sizes and numbers of sheets. With few exceptions, each sheet is printed on both sides. Multichannel Sensor System (Model 43300) Operation and Maintenance 102 - 8.5 x 11 sheets 2 - 11 x 17 sheets Circuit Diagrams 11 - 8.5 x 11 sheets 50 - 11 x 17 sheets Illustrated Parts Breakdown 95 - 8.5 x 11 sheets 20 - 11 x 17 sheets TSC 47 - 8.5 x 11 sheets It appears that the best price on copying is for me to do it using our office copier, which works out to be about $12 for paper and toner per set of both manuals. Probably makes sense to add a couple dollars for a box and other contingencies. In addition, I'd like to split up the $65 I paid the USGS for the first one. I'll divide it evenly among all who want a copy, including myself. It appears probably can be done for under $25 a copy plus shipping, but I'll have a better idea once I know how many people want them. I'll charge each person the actual amount for shipping to them. Originally, I said I would make separate copies of the seismometer and/or test set controller for anyone who wants either/both. But since the TSC manual is small compared to the rest, I'd like to just make the same number of copies of both manuals and not try to keep track of which goes to whom. The weight of a copy is about 6 pounds and it will fit in a 12 x 18 x 2" box. In the copy from the USGS, the 11 x 17 sheets are z-folded to fit 8.5 x 11 format, and that probably should be done again to get them into a convenient form. To spread out this task, I will ship them collated but not folded and let each person do their own folding. I'd like to stick with UPS for shipping since we are set up to efficiently do that from my office. Shipping costs can be calculated from UPS's web site: http://wwwapps.ups.com/servlet/QCCServlet?iso_language=en&iso_country=US Use zip code 92111 as the origin. It doesn't matter which service you choose, but obviously ground is the cheapest. If anyone can't accept USP shipping (PO Box, for instance), let me know and I'll make other arrangements. I know people want their copies as soon as they can get them, but I'd like to accumulate requests for a few days and do the copying all in one or two runs. Here is a list of people who I know want one so far: Bob Lewis Sean-Thomas Morrissey Bryan Goss If anyone who is not on this list already sent me a request, I apologize, but please send me another request. If you want one and are not on this list, please email me at manuals@........... I'll accumulate names until early next week, then make another plea for last-minute requests, then make a set of copies. If there are more requests later on, I'll make more copies but it will probably be a few weeks down the road. And after that, in the absence of serious arm twisting, I'll probably be a lot more inclined to take the stack to a copy place and have it done (about $50 per set). Regards, Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: drums From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 11:06:11 -0400 Message from Tony Tony has 3 recording drums for meq 800 sprengnether recorders for free. contact Tony at tonyfl@......... =20
Message from Tony
 
Tony has 3 recording drums for meq 800 = sprengnether=20 recorders for free.
contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
 
 
Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:36:36 -0500 I got the snail mail you sent yesterday. Do you know what the total for me will be on the manuals? When you let me know I will send you the check and the form from Dr. Hutt. Thanks Bryan S Goss __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Large Explosion From: "Randall Pratt" randallpratts@.......... Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:03:44 -0500 Hi All, I found this on a web page I was referred to. Did anyone record any = activity that would verify it? The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire arms (BATF) and the Pentagon are = concealing the cause of one of the largest, supposedly accidental = explosions in the United States. However, according to sources, the blast that took place at a munitions = dump in Arkansas' Calhoun County on April 29 was caused by the = detonation of tons of smokeless gun powder used for small arms = ammunition in either a terrible accident or a deliberate attempt to cut = into U.S. supplies. Centered in a sprawling WWII-era ammunition storage depot located east = of Camden, the blast caused a crater 16 feet deep the size of a football = field, rattling windows and cracking plaster walls 50 miles away. The = explosion was so violent that some thought it may have been a small = tactical atomic blast. It even produced a pinkish-orange mushroom-shaped = cloud, a trademark of nuclear detonation. Randy
Hi All,
 
I found this on a web page I was = referred to. =20 Did anyone record any activity that would verify it?
 
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire = arms (BATF)=20 and the Pentagon are concealing the cause of one of the largest, = supposedly=20 accidental explosions in the United States.

However, according to = sources, the blast that took place at a munitions dump in Arkansas' = Calhoun=20 County on April 29 was caused by the detonation of tons of smokeless gun = powder=20 used for small arms ammunition in either a terrible accident or a = deliberate=20 attempt to cut into U.S. supplies.

Centered in a sprawling = WWII-era=20 ammunition storage depot located east of Camden, the blast caused a = crater 16=20 feet deep the size of a football field, rattling windows and cracking = plaster=20 walls 50 miles away. The explosion was so violent that some thought it = may have=20 been a small tactical atomic blast. It even produced a pinkish-orange=20 mushroom-shaped cloud, a trademark of nuclear=20 detonation.

Randy
Subject: Re: Large Explosion From: Robert Burnham +1 414 425 7306 rburnham@.......... Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:18:15 -0500 Can't speak to any seismic effects on that date or any other, but mushroom clouds are common with large explosions of any kind. They are produced by the explosion's hot gases rising convectively until they cool at some altitude and spread laterally. Sounds like someone's attempting to monger a rumor.... Best regards, Robert Burnham ********************************************************** Robert Burnham science writer and editor 10212 Parklane Court phone: +1 414 425-7306 Hales Corners, WI 53130 fax: +1 414 427-1615 USA e-mail: rburnham@.......... ********************************************************** > Hi All, I found this on a web page I was referred to.  Did >anyone record any activity that would verify it? The Bureau of Alcohol, >Tobacco and Fire arms (BATF) and the Pentagon are concealing the cause of >one of the largest, supposedly accidental explosions in the United >States.However, according to sources, the blast that took place at a >munitions dump in Arkansas' Calhoun County on April 29 was caused by the >detonation of tons of smokeless gun powder used for small arms ammunition >in either a terrible accident or a deliberate attempt to cut into U.S. >supplies.Centered in a sprawling WWII-era ammunition storage depot >located east of Camden, the blast caused a crater 16 feet deep the size >of a football field, rattling windows and cracking plaster walls 50 miles >away. The explosion was so violent that some thought it may have been a >small tactical atomic blast. It even produced a pinkish-orange >mushroom-shaped cloud, a trademark of nuclear detonation.Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:02:28 -0700 Hi All As of now, the following people have indicated they want manuals: Bob Lewis Sean-Thomas Morrissey Bryan Goss Meredith Lamb Charles Patton Raul Alvarez If anyone else wants one, please let me know by 0Z on 5/23. After that, I'll start the copying process. Unless a lot more people want them, it looks like the cost of copying plus the divided cost of the original is going to be $25 each, plus shipping. Brooks Shera pointed out that we only got sections 5, 6, and 7 of the manual, which match the sections I described in my previous post to the list. The USGS in Albuquerque doesn't have the other sections, so they are not available at this time. Regards, Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: AS2 Boom detail From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:19:05 EDT Hi, After a PC crash I have lost a number of files. The most urgent is the detail drawing of the boom for the Lehman AS2 horiz. seismometer, drawing #1004. Also looking for detail drawing of damping vane drawing #1009. Any URL's would be appreciated. Thanks Ian (UK) Hi,

After a PC crash I have lost a number of files.
The most urgent is the detail drawing of the boom for the Lehman AS2 horiz.
seismometer, drawing #1004.
Also looking for detail drawing of damping vane drawing #1009.
Any URL's would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ian
(UK) Subject: Re: AS2 Boom detail From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:18:48 EDT In a message dated 23/05/01, KTextinction65Ma@....... writes: > After a PC crash I have lost a number of files. > The most urgent is the detail drawing of the boom for the Lehman AS2 horiz. > seismometer, drawing #1004. Also looking for detail drawing of damping vane > drawing #1009. Any URL's would be appreciated. Dear Ian, I think that you will find the AS2 if you root around in the first reference. http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ http://met.univnorthco.edu/resource/seismtr.htm http://www.earth.uni.edu/seismograph.doc Otherwise try :-AS-2 Seismometer (The Amateur Seismologist, 2155 Verdugo Blvd., #528, Montrose, CA 91020; $400 with 24 page manual and Quake software to connect to PC, see review in Earth magazine, p. 66, December, 1995). Or check on the society which produced the drawings. Can't remember the name. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 23/05/01, KTextinction65Ma@....... writes:

After a PC crash I have lost a number of files.
The most urgent is the detail drawing of the boom for the Lehman AS2 horiz.
seismometer, drawing #1004. Also looking for detail drawing of damping vane
drawing #1009. Any URL's would be appreciated.


Dear Ian,

      I think that you will find the AS2 if you root around in the first
reference.
      http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/
      http://met.univnorthco.edu/resource/seismtr.htm
      http://www.earth.uni.edu/seismograph.doc

      Otherwise try :-AS-2 Seismometer (The Amateur Seismologist, 2155
Verdugo Blvd., #528, Montrose, CA 91020; $400 with 24 page manual and Quake
software to connect to PC, see review in Earth magazine, p. 66, December,
1995).

      Or check on the society which produced the drawings. Can't remember
the name.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:34:10 -0400 Why not put the whole thing into a PDF document? The page quality is good, and they can be viewed by most systems (win and linux i know for sure. possably even mac). ~Travis >From: Karl Cunningham >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: KS36000 manuals >Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:14:50 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCCEB42D008240043214D864E08210B20; Fri May 18 11:25:55 2001 >Received: from dsl.ectron.com (unverified [204.94.78.151]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Fri, 18 May >2001 11:16:48 -0700 >Received: from cts21612069116.cts.com [216.120.69.116]by dsl.ectron.comwith >SMTPBeamer v3.24 ;Fri, 18 May 2001 11:16:24 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Fri May 18 11:27:18 2001 >Message-ID: <236682345.990184490@......................> >X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0a5 (Win32 Demo) >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi all -- > >The manuals arrived from the USGS in ABQ. Thanks go to Ms. Tommie Teeter, >administrative assistant, for very prompt copying and shipping. > >There are two manuals, one for the seismometer and one for the test set / >controller (TSC). The manual that covers the 36000 is actually for a Model >43300 Multichannel Sensor System, which apparently the 36000 is part of. >It appears to be complete up to change level 6. > >There is a LOT of stuff here. These manuals appear to be very detailed, >showing schematics, exploded views, parts lists, and detailed operation and >maintenance procedures. All in all, they are about two inches thick. > >Here is a tally of the sizes and numbers of sheets. With few exceptions, >each sheet is printed on both sides. > >Multichannel Sensor System (Model 43300) > Operation and Maintenance > 102 - 8.5 x 11 sheets > 2 - 11 x 17 sheets > > Circuit Diagrams > 11 - 8.5 x 11 sheets > 50 - 11 x 17 sheets > > Illustrated Parts Breakdown > 95 - 8.5 x 11 sheets > 20 - 11 x 17 sheets > >TSC > 47 - 8.5 x 11 sheets > > > >It appears that the best price on copying is for me to do it using our >office copier, which works out to be about $12 for paper and toner per set >of both manuals. Probably makes sense to add a couple dollars for a box >and other contingencies. In addition, I'd like to split up the $65 I paid >the USGS for the first one. I'll divide it evenly among all who want a >copy, including myself. It appears probably can be done for under $25 a >copy plus shipping, but I'll have a better idea once I know how many people >want them. I'll charge each person the actual amount for shipping to them. > >Originally, I said I would make separate copies of the seismometer and/or >test set controller for anyone who wants either/both. But since the TSC >manual is small compared to the rest, I'd like to just make the same number >of copies of both manuals and not try to keep track of which goes to whom. > >The weight of a copy is about 6 pounds and it will fit in a 12 x 18 x 2" >box. >In the copy from the USGS, the 11 x 17 sheets are z-folded to fit 8.5 x 11 >format, and that probably should be done again to get them into a >convenient form. To spread out this task, I will ship them collated but >not folded and let each person do their own folding. > >I'd like to stick with UPS for shipping since we are set up to efficiently >do that from my office. Shipping costs can be calculated from UPS's web >site: >http://wwwapps.ups.com/servlet/QCCServlet?iso_language=en&iso_country=US >Use zip code 92111 as the origin. It doesn't matter which service you >choose, but obviously ground is the cheapest. If anyone can't accept USP >shipping (PO Box, for instance), let me know and I'll make other >arrangements. > >I know people want their copies as soon as they can get them, but I'd like >to accumulate requests for a few days and do the copying all in one or two >runs. Here is a list of people who I know want one so far: > >Bob Lewis >Sean-Thomas Morrissey >Bryan Goss > >If anyone who is not on this list already sent me a request, I apologize, >but please send me another request. > >If you want one and are not on this list, please email me at >manuals@........... I'll accumulate names until early next week, then make >another plea for last-minute requests, then make a set of copies. > >If there are more requests later on, I'll make more copies but it will >probably be a few weeks down the road. And after that, in the absence of >serious arm twisting, I'll probably be a lot more inclined to take the >stack to a copy place and have it done (about $50 per set). > >Regards, >Karl Cunningham >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:49:13 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: Travis Farmer > Why not put the whole thing into a PDF document? Tell me this oh PSN'ers....Does someone actually have the software for putting this into PDF? I would be interested in hearing from you or anyone who does have the software. It was my impression that PDF software was a major cost product! Otherwise I would have published with it...I do know that Charles Watson uses it on seismo-watch! Charles! Is this something you might be able to handle?! Bob-Pinpoint EQ Newsletter __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:55:30 -0400 I have the software to do it. just get the full version of adobe acrobat (vs the free version). all you need to do is digitise the manual. if you can get it into word 2000 format i can encode it into PDF (free of charge of course). I think any digital format will work but i have had the best luck with Word 2000 files. ~Travis >From: "bobshannon.org" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: >CC: >Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:49:13 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD4706C00484004320BD864E08206940; Tue May 22 19:50:25 2001 >Received: from corinth.bossig.com (unverified [208.26.239.66]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Tue, 22 May >2001 19:51:00 -0700 >Received: from earth (unverified [208.8.144.190]) by corinth.bossig.com >(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id ; >Tue, 22 May 2001 19:51:32 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 22 19:51:47 2001 >Message-ID: <015401c0e332$f600ee60$b29008d0@earth> >References: >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Travis Farmer > > > > Why not put the whole thing into a PDF document? > >Tell me this oh PSN'ers....Does someone actually have the software for >putting this into PDF? I would be interested in hearing from you or anyone >who does have the software. It was my impression that PDF software was a >major cost product! Otherwise I would have published with it...I do know >that Charles Watson uses it on seismo-watch! Charles! Is this something you >might be able to handle?! >Bob-Pinpoint EQ Newsletter > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Just curious From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:09:20 -0400 last week i felt big vibrations from some blasting about a mile from my house. i was wonderng if any of them carried onto any of your sensors. I can't remember the exact date but i can remember most of the details. each blast was about 2 seconds apart for a set of 5 (or so). this accured about 2 or 3 times at about around noon (EST -5hrs GMT). ~Travis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: drums From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:54:07 -0700 Hi all, Drums you say.....I'am not sure about the description, but if they are like the old single drum GeoTech variety (?), their value might be more useful for their content of materials, than for their original use. I chopped up one old GeoTech (drummers cringe!...ha) some time back. It has three main parts that offered some seismo potential; it had a solid cast aluminum box frame (open top/bottom, but still very useful). Any added parts like magnet/s etc., would need to be mounted on the side of the aluminum "box". The drum itself contained 4 brass counterweights (mass), and the drum shell could make a nice (additional project), S-G cover. It also had a variety of other possible useful parts like other aluminum, steel cable which could be utilized into a homebrew seismo with alittle adoption engineering. Its a good thing, that there are no "drummers" reading this......ha. Meredith Lamb JORD wrote: > Message from Tony Tony has 3 recording drums for meq 800 sprengnether > recorders for free.contact Tony at tonyfl@......... Hi all,

Drums you say.....I'am not sure about the description, but
if they are like the old single drum GeoTech variety (?), their value
might be more useful for their content of materials, than for their
original use.  I chopped up one old GeoTech (drummers
cringe!...ha) some time back.  It has three main parts that
offered some seismo potential; it had a solid cast aluminum
box frame (open top/bottom, but still very useful).  Any
added parts like magnet/s etc., would need to be mounted
on the side of the aluminum "box".  The drum itself contained 4
brass counterweights (mass), and the drum shell could make
a nice (additional project), S-G cover.  It also had a
variety of other possible useful parts like other aluminum,
steel cable which could be utilized into a homebrew seismo
with alittle adoption engineering.  Its a good thing, that there
are no "drummers" reading this......ha.

Meredith Lamb

JORD wrote:

Message from Tony Tony has 3 recording drums for meq 800 sprengnether recorders for free.contact Tony at tonyfl@.........
Subject: Re: AS2 Boom detail From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:35:44 EDT Thanks Chris, searching. Ian Extinction is the last step! Thanks Chris, searching.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:56:25 -0700 I have a print driver for Windows that acts as if you are printing a document but outputs it to a PDF file. I don't remember where I got it, but it came with some other software years ago. I think the major drawback is the number of bytes created and the labor involved. PDF files are usually created from word-processing documents where the text starts out in the form of text. In this case, each page would have to be scanned as an image -- drawings, photos, text, and all. I don't know how many bytes these images would be, but I can assure you it will add up! And the photos really should be done at different settings (allow grey scale) than the text. Starting from an image of each page, I don't think putting them into a PDF is practical. If it could be run through an optical character reader to convert the text to characters, it would be, but the text is mixed with drawings and photos. I'm no expert, but I don't know of any software that does this job well enough automatically. Proofreading the text and putting it together with the photos and recreating something that looks like the original is a major task. So that was my thinking on the subject. Karl Cunningham --On Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:55 PM -0400 Travis Farmer wrote: > I have the software to do it. > just get the full version of adobe acrobat (vs the free version). > all you need to do is digitise the manual. > if you can get it into word 2000 format i can encode it into PDF (free of > charge of course). I think any digital format will work but i have had > the best luck with Word 2000 files. > > ~Travis > > >> From: "bobshannon.org" >> Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >> To: >> CC: >> Subject: Re: KS36000 manuals >> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:49:13 -0700 >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >> MHotMailBCD4706C00484004320BD864E08206940; Tue May 22 19:50:25 2001 >> Received: from corinth.bossig.com (unverified [208.26.239.66]) by >> sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id >> for ; Tue, 22 >> May 2001 19:51:00 -0700 >> Received: from earth (unverified [208.8.144.190]) by corinth.bossig.com >> (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id ; >> Tue, 22 May 2001 19:51:32 -0700 >> From larry_cochrane@.............. Tue May 22 19:51:47 2001 >> Message-ID: <015401c0e332$f600ee60$b29008d0@earth> >> References: >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >> Sender: psn-l-request@.............. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Travis Farmer >> >> >> > Why not put the whole thing into a PDF document? >> >> Tell me this oh PSN'ers....Does someone actually have the software for >> putting this into PDF? I would be interested in hearing from you or >> anyone who does have the software. It was my impression that PDF >> software was a major cost product! Otherwise I would have published with >> it...I do know that Charles Watson uses it on seismo-watch! Charles! Is >> this something you might be able to handle?! >> Bob-Pinpoint EQ Newsletter >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Regards, Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: DRUMS FOR SPRENGNETHER RECORDERS From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:16:40 EDT Tony Flello (a5a77085@.............. still has one or two of the Sprengnether Recorder (model #meg800) Drums for anyone interested. They are free to anyone wanting one. You may contact him at the above email address. Tony Flello (a5a77085@.............. still has one or two of the Sprengnether
Recorder (model #meg800) Drums for anyone interested.   They are free to
anyone wanting one.   You may contact him at the above email address. Subject: Re: New WinQuake Release From: Dave Booth kc6wfs@........... Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:55:26 -0700 Hi Larry, I am sending off the registration for winquake tomarrow. Darn the 30days went so fast. When you get the MO can you email me the ser. number? I'll include it on your form. Thanks. Dave Booth Larry Cochrane wrote: > > Greetings, > > I released a new version of WinQuake today. You can down load the beta > release here: http://www.seismicnet.com/software.html > > Here's what's new in this release: > > I fixed a bug in how WQ saves data in the new PSN format. The spec says to > save two CRC (a way of checking the validity of data) bytes at the end of > the file even if the CRC is not calculated. SDR, while not calculating the > CRC, did save the two bytes at the end of the file and set the NO_CRC flag > in the header section. When WQ updated the file, it would set the CRC flag > but not write out the two bytes at the end of the file. Since older beta > release did use the CRC bytes it wasn't a problem. This release calculates > and saves the CRC bytes when saving the event file and if the NO_CRC flag is > clear, it will test the CRC when reading in an event file. If the calculated > CRC does not match the CRC bytes in the file you will get an error message. > > Since people are sending in event files in the new format I created a simple > program to check all of the event files on my system to see if they are two > bytes short. If an event file was short the program would append two bytes > to the end of the file. If you are sending in event files in the new format > please upgrade to this release before sending anymore in. > > This release has a new dialog box that displays the RMS (Root Means Square), > minimum, maximum and mean of the viewed data. This dialog box can be opened > by using the Calculate and RMS / Max / Min menu items. > > Thanks it. > > -Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Free Sprengnether Recorder Drums From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:32:49 EDT This is to inform the list that the free drums for the seismic recorders available from Tony (tonyfl@.......... are no longer available since they are now on there way to three grateful PSN list members. This is to inform the list that the free drums for the seismic recorders
available from Tony (tonyfl@.......... are no longer available since they are
now on there way to three grateful PSN list members. Subject: ebay items From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:02:37 -0400 Hi gang, ebay item # 1600675292 is a "Kinemetrics Compuseis device". I don't know what this but the title is suggestive. The auction has 6 days to run. There is also a Rockland 442 dual hi/lo pass active filter, ebay # 1600422412. This has 1 day to run. Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ebay items From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:43:51 -0400 What is the Kinemetrics Compuseis device? looks like a data recorder maybe? ~Travis >From: BOB BARNS >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN mail list >Subject: ebay items >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:02:37 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD67008001B40043799D864E0820C710; Thu May 24 08:13:15 2001 >Received: from femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com (unverified [24.0.95.88]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Thu, 24 May >2001 08:04:17 -0700 >Received: from home.com ([24.180.65.206]) by femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com > (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP > id <20010524150243.IHPS28222.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@........> > for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:02:43 -0700 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Thu May 24 08:13:58 2001 >Message-ID: <3B0D228D.799FD26E@........> >Organization: @Home Network Member >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Hi gang, > ebay item # 1600675292 is a "Kinemetrics Compuseis device". I don't >know what this but the title is suggestive. The auction has 6 days to >run. > There is also a Rockland 442 dual hi/lo pass active filter, ebay # >1600422412. This has 1 day to run. >Bob >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PDFing KS36000 manuals From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:54:02 -0700 Karl Cunningham wrote: > I think the major drawback is the number of bytes created and the labor= > involved. ... I don't think putting them into a PDF > is practical. = I can confirm this. If you PDF'd a scan without first converting to text it would be larger. On a quick test I just did, a page from a technical journal with text and line drawings scanned at 200 dpi (marginally better than a fax), and PDF'd at 600 dpi, was 278 KB. If I JPG'd the page at 90%, I got 1239 KB. A Publisher page I had with text, boxes, and line drawings from PPT, took only 86 KB at 600 dpi. The Publisher page looked perfect in the PDF while the scanned page had visible artifacts. It took about =BD a minute just to scan the page. = I use OCR (OmniPage Pro 10) all the time for a newsletter we do. The OmniPage software is fairly current state-of-the-art. And unless the original copy is absolutely flawless -- i.e., not a third generation Xerox with broken letters, smeared background, out-of-focus sections, etc., it can be easier to just re-type the copy than go through and edit the OCR version. For instance, much of the input we get comes as faxes, and about 50% of the time I just re-type rather than OCR due to the poor recognition and high error rate. And I hasten to say, that even with perfect (originals) copy, it's still maybe only 98% correct. That translates to a 100% certainty that you'll have to perform edits on every page. As Karl mentioned, attempting to OCR with mixed text and pictures would be absolutely laborious. Omnipage can pick up the indentatations, but then the pictures would have to be separately inserted in an editing program such as Word or Publisher. I would not be up for converting the manuals. At best, scanning and direct conversion to PDF would take a huge amount of time and require lots of disk space. I know I would not be up to it. Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PDFing KS36000 manuals From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:36:01 -0400 PDF files can get pretty big even with straight text and a few images. Perhaps if the PDF files were distributed via CD-R it would be better. a CD-R cost about $2 USD each and about another 2 or 3 bucks for shipping. I have a cd burner. does anybody else have or access to a burner and can make PDF files? If i got a copy of the manuals, i could type them out, PDF and burn them. then mail them for just the cost of the cd and shipping. Maybe even send a copy to the Kind folk at the USGS station that gave away the sensors so they can copy and distribute for the other people that got a sensor. ~Travis >From: "Charles R. Patton" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: PDFing KS36000 manuals >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:54:02 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD689E7005E40042A09D864E08210510; Thu May 24 10:03:40 2001 >Received: from mail1.pe.net (unverified [64.38.64.6]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Thu, 24 May >2001 09:54:47 -0700 >Received: from ieee.org (IP-87-041.tem.pe.net [64.38.87.41])by mail1.pe.net >(8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OGrFu10249for ; Thu, >24 May 2001 09:53:15 -0700 (PDT) >From larry_cochrane@.............. Thu May 24 10:05:17 2001 >Message-ID: <3B0D3CAA.5F000F25@........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >References: ><158246966.990618985@......................> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Karl Cunningham wrote: > > I think the major drawback is the number of bytes created and the labor > > involved. ... I don't think putting them into a PDF > > is practical. > >I can confirm this. If you PDF'd a scan without first converting to text >it would be larger. On a quick test I just did, a page from a technical >journal with text and line drawings scanned at 200 dpi (marginally >better than a fax), and PDF'd at 600 dpi, was 278 KB. If I JPG'd the >page at 90%, I got 1239 KB. A Publisher page I had with text, boxes, >and line drawings from PPT, took only 86 KB at 600 dpi. The Publisher >page looked perfect in the PDF while the scanned page had visible >artifacts. It took about ½ a minute just to scan the page. > >I use OCR (OmniPage Pro 10) all the time for a newsletter we do. The >OmniPage software is fairly current state-of-the-art. And unless the >original copy is absolutely flawless -- i.e., not a third generation >Xerox with broken letters, smeared background, out-of-focus sections, >etc., it can be easier to just re-type the copy than go through and edit >the OCR version. For instance, much of the input we get comes as faxes, >and about 50% of the time I just re-type rather than OCR due to the poor >recognition and high error rate. And I hasten to say, that even with >perfect (originals) copy, it's still maybe only 98% correct. That >translates to a 100% certainty that you'll have to perform edits on >every page. As Karl mentioned, attempting to OCR with mixed text and >pictures would be absolutely laborious. Omnipage can pick up the >indentatations, but then the pictures would have to be separately >inserted in an editing program such as Word or Publisher. I would not >be up for converting the manuals. > >At best, scanning and direct conversion to PDF would take a huge amount >of time and require lots of disk space. I know I would not be up to it. > >Charles R. Patton >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PDFing KS36000 manuals From: Terence Dowling dowling@......... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:53:10 -0700 "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > At best, scanning and direct conversion to PDF would take a huge amount > of time and require lots of disk space. I know I would not be up to it. > This isn't necessarily true. Acrobat Capture has been quite successful at turning imperfect originals into editable and searchable text. Many parts of the legal profession use this to great advantage. I don't have one of the KS3600 manuals but I'd be happy to get one turned into a compact PDF if that is something that the group wants and the relevant copyright permits. -- Terence Dowling (408) 536-3856 Adobe Systems Inc. dowling@......... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: ADXL202 Sensor From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:03:28 -0700 Hello all, I finally got finished building a two axis sensor using the ADXL202 accelerometer and boy, am I disapointed. I am using the analog outputs rather than the digital pwm outputs and the noise is tremendous. It is virtually a random noise generator ! I have the bandwidth for the ADXL202 chip set at 50 Hz along with a 12 Db 15Hz lowpass filter on the output then into a noninverting gain of 100 into my AtoD. Geez.... I have to literally shake the sensor to differentiate between the noise and the signal. I'll try a lower filter cutoff on the lopass and if that dose'nt work, I'm changing my allegiance to Lehman. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:36:17 -0700 Hi Casey -- I'm curious just how much noise you do see. Neglecting filters, sounds like you have a gain of 100 between the ADXL202 and your A/D. How many counts of noise do you see on your A/D and how much voltage does one count represent? Have you tried disconnecting the ADXL202 and shorting the input to the filter to see how much noise is produced without the sensor? Regards, Karl Cunningham --On Thursday, May 24, 2001 3:03 PM -0700 Casey Crane wrote: > Hello all, > > I finally got finished building a two axis sensor using the > ADXL202 accelerometer and boy, am I disapointed. I am using the analog > outputs rather than the digital pwm outputs and the noise is tremendous. > It is virtually a random noise generator ! I have the bandwidth for the > ADXL202 chip set at 50 Hz along with a 12 Db > 15Hz lowpass filter on the output then into a noninverting gain of > 100 into my AtoD. Geez.... I have to literally shake the sensor to > differentiate between the noise and the signal. > > I'll try a lower filter cutoff on the lopass and if that dose'nt work, > I'm changing my allegiance to Lehman. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:21:59 -0700 Go with the Lehman. You will record a lot more events with this type of sensor. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Crane" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: ADXL202 Sensor > Hello all, > > I finally got finished building a two axis sensor using the > ADXL202 accelerometer and boy, am I disapointed. I am using the analog > outputs rather than the digital pwm outputs and the noise is tremendous. > It is virtually a random noise generator ! I have the bandwidth for the > ADXL202 chip set at 50 Hz along with a 12 Db > 15Hz lowpass filter on the output then into a noninverting gain of > 100 into my AtoD. Geez.... I have to literally shake the sensor to > differentiate between the noise and the signal. > > I'll try a lower filter cutoff on the lopass and if that dose'nt work, > I'm changing my allegiance to Lehman. > > Casey > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:35:29 -0700 Karl, In reguards to to reply, first thanks, then How do you define "Counts of noise" ? I have an O'scope But how do I measure this random or psuedo-random stuff without a spectrum anylizer ? My AtoD is quiet as a mouse. I'm using an ADC0809 eight channel AtoD and am using but four of these channels. I'm using the printer LPT1 interface. Write if you have any suggestions. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:42:23 -0700 Hi Larry, Yep, the lehman seem's to be the best choice however I'm kinda stuck in a small one bedroom apartment and am forced to work on the kitchen table. My wife and I are planning to move to a larger place soon (couple months) so until then I gotta wait. Oh well. I'll just enjoy the PSN. Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: Mark Andrews mja6042@............. Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:51:28 -0500 Dear Everyone, I still have a lot to learn so please forgive my ignorance. I know that teleseismic events generally dominate in the lower frequency range. Therefore a Lehman seismometer with its longer natural period seems like it would be the instrument of choice for detecting teleseismic events. However, everything I read tells me the displacement sensor, which is found on the bob of the Shackleford-Gundersen Seismometer can be built to detect much weaker events than the velocity sensor found on the end of a Lehman. It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I have not taken into consideration? I'm just curious because I'm looking to build my second instrument. My first is a Shackleford-Gundersen which I have been running since the end of December. I've picked up lots of quakes with it since then. The only big one I missed was the great quake in India due to my data logging computer re-booting after a minor power blip. (Just my luck!!!) Now the computer is on a UPS, go figure. Thanks for any info anyone may have. Mark Andrews Texas A&M Class of '02 (Gig 'em) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: Mark Andrews mja6042@............. Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:02:25 -0500 Dear Everyone, I still have a lot to learn so please forgive my ignorance. I know that teleseismic events generally dominate in the lower frequency range. Therefore a Lehman seismometer with its longer natural period seems like it would be the instrument of choice for detecting teleseismic events. However, everything I read tells me the displacement sensor, which is found on the bob of the Shackleford-Gundersen Seismometer can be built to detect much weaker events than the velocity sensor found on the end of a Lehman. It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I have not taken into consideration? I'm just curious because I'm looking to build my second instrument. My first is a Shackleford-Gundersen which I have been running since the end of December. I've picked up lots of quakes with it since then. The only big one I missed was the great quake in India due to my data logging computer re-booting after a minor power blip. (Just my luck!!!) Now the computer is on a UPS, go figure. Thanks for any info anyone may have. Mark Andrews Texas A&M Class of '02 (Gig 'em) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:58:09 -0700 Hi Mark, I'd think that the horizontal instruments mass would drift too much over time, which in turn would misalign the ideal "normal" S-G's sensors output whether capactive or Hall effect (or etc.). Sometimes it would work, and often not, as normally its only a very small area of tolerable "drift" allowance. Its hard for amateurs to get away from the "preferred" coil/magnet approach, for its simplicity and wide range of drift tolerance.....however, it can be fun to try out things that seem like they might work....I try stuff all the time...ha. Regards, Meredith Lamb Mark Andrews wrote: > Dear Everyone, > > It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement > sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in > place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. > > I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I > have not taken into consideration? > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:12:19 -0700 Hi Casey -- I was thinking if you were looking at the output as a file of numbers on the computer. If you were to take 100 readings, then throw out the highest and lowest (assume they might be glitches from power lines, etc), then what are the highest and lowest readings that are left. Here's another way I've heard to measure random noise with an oscilloscope: Feed the signal source into a vertical channel of the scope, and adjust the vertical sensitivity so the the trace is around two major divisions on the screen. Then connect another vertical channel to the same signal and set its sensitivity to the same value as the first channel. If the noise is random, each channel's trace will be brightest near its center and get dimmer toward the top and bottom edges of that trace. Now adjust the vertical position of one of the channels until the traces overlap in such a way that the brightness of the display between the two channels is almost constant. That is, at the point where the lower part of the upper trace is starting to dim, the upper part of the lower trace is brightening so as to compensate. Then ground the input to both scope channels and observe the difference in vertical position between the two traces. The number of divisions between the traces times the vertical sensitivity is a measure of the noise of the signal. Unfortunately, I don't remember if this number is supposed to be peak, RMS, or what. Maybe someone out there knows. Regards, Karl --On Thursday, May 24, 2001 17:35 -0700 Casey Crane wrote: > Karl, > > In reguards to to reply, first thanks, then How do you define "Counts of > noise" ? I have an O'scope But how do I measure this random or > psuedo-random stuff without a spectrum anylizer ? > > My AtoD is quiet as a mouse. I'm using an ADC0809 eight channel > AtoD and am using but four of these channels. I'm using the printer LPT1 > interface. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:26 EDT In a message dated 25/05/01, mja6042@............. writes: > It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement > sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in > place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. > > I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I > Hi there Mark, Drift is likely to be the biggest problem. Lehmans are very sensitive to tilt effects. The longer the period, the greater the tilt sensitivity. This is not seen on a SG seis, which is a simple vertical pendulum with a strong tendency to re-centre. You can use a LVDT to measure the deflection on a Lehman. They can have much greater dynamic range than a variable separation capacitative plate transducer such as used on a SG. A variable area capacitative plate could be OK. Putting the whole apparatus inside a feedback loop to keep the weight in the same position would be advantageous. The normal coil assembly used on a Lehman is sensitive to the rate of change of position and isn't worried by small drifts. Have a look at:- A Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl Cunningham on the PSN Website. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 25/05/01, mja6042@............. writes:

It see ms like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement
sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in
place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman.

I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I
have not taken into consideration?


Hi there Mark,

      Drift is likely to be the biggest problem. Lehmans are very sensitive
to tilt effects. The longer the period, the greater the tilt sensitivity.
This is not seen on a SG seis, which is a simple vertical pendulum with a
strong tendency to re-centre. You can use a LVDT to measure the deflection on
a Lehman. They can have much greater dynamic range than a variable separation
capacitative plate transducer such as used on a SG. A variable area
capacitative plate could be OK. Putting the whole apparatus inside a feedback
loop to keep the weight in the same position would be advantageous. The
normal coil assembly used on a Lehman is sensitive to the rate of change of
position and isn't worried by small drifts.
      Have a look at:- A Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl Cunningham
      on the PSN Website.

      Regards, Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:48:24 -0400 I have another idea that may be easier. I'm not sure of the accuracy but I got it from a book so I can only assume it is fairly good. read the page I scanned here (red arrow) http://www.geocities.com/travis5765/seismo/images/displacement_sensor.png Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should work. You would have to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors though. If somebody gave the design a try, I would be interested in the results. By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that the output needs only minimal amplification though it varies with the rated output of the solar panels and the consistency of the light output. My idea for a modification would be to use a laser pointer as a light source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply for it. ~Travis >From: Mark Andrews >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L@.............. >Subject: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:51:28 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD7246A00B040043111D864E0820FED0; Thu May 24 21:02:56 2001 >Received: from labs.tamu.edu (unverified [128.194.103.126]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with ESMTP id > for ; Thu, 24 May >2001 20:53:51 -0700 >Received: from mja6042.homenet.com (modem-0741.rns.tamu.edu) by >labs.tamu.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id ><7.006B635D@.............>; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:52:20 -0500 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Thu May 24 21:04:15 2001 >Message-Id: <3.0.32.20010524225126.006dc5e8@.............> >X-Sender: mja6042@............. >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > > >Dear Everyone, > > >I still have a lot to learn so please forgive my ignorance. > >I know that teleseismic events generally dominate in the lower frequency >range. Therefore a Lehman seismometer with its longer natural period seems >like it would be the instrument of choice for detecting teleseismic events. > However, everything I read tells me the displacement sensor, which is >found on the bob of the Shackleford-Gundersen Seismometer can be built to >detect much weaker events than the velocity sensor found on the end of a >Lehman. > >It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement >sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in >place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. > >I have not heard of anyone doing this. Is there a reason? Something I >have not taken into consideration? > >I'm just curious because I'm looking to build my second instrument. My >first is a Shackleford-Gundersen which I have been running since the end of >December. I've picked up lots of quakes with it since then. The only big >one I missed was the great quake in India due to my data logging computer >re-booting after a minor power blip. (Just my luck!!!) Now the computer >is on a UPS, go figure. > >Thanks for any info anyone may have. > >Mark Andrews >Texas A&M Class of '02 (Gig 'em) > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:45:37 -0400 I haven't posted here in a while, but thought I might chime in here. I built an extremely sensitive displacement sensor to use with one of my Lehmans. Now I could see all kinds of drift artifact that I could not see before. [ By the way, the beech tree that I speculated (on this reflector) was causing tilt artifact when fully foliated...confirmed. Half of it collapsed under sticky spring snow storm in '00, so I removed the whole tree. No change last fall or this spring.] Anyway, since I had already gone to all the (excessive) effort I was willing in order to make the system mechanically stable, I decided to use a jack screw and stepper motor to move a chunk of lead back and forth on the slab to automatically cancel out drift. This worked OK, but seemed a bit crude, so I finally decided to use the force balance approach, which simply establishes a feedback loop to hold the boom in place, and takes the acceleration component from the feedback loop. It also allowed me to go with a pure digital phase locked loop detection method of extraordinary precision, since you now are only concerned with "any displacement at all" verses "accurate representation of displacement"in your primary detection loop. The result is a real time stream of digital acceleration words which you COULD clock right into the parallel port on your PC, but I, who prefer analog recording on cash register paper, instead run them through a D/A converter and integrate it in my recorder...JUST LIKE THE MAGNET AND COIL DID ORIGINALLY. So it proves that you CAN, in fact, through ample application of ingenuity and fanaticism, keep improving a system until it works almost as well as it did before... Tom On Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:26 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: In a message dated 25/05/01, mja6042@............. writes: It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a displacement sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman. Hi there Mark, Drift is likely to be the biggest problem. Lehmans are very sensitive to tilt effects. The longer the period, the greater the tilt sensitivity. [edited] The normal coil assembly used on a Lehman is sensitive to the rate of change of position and isn't worried by small drifts. Have a look at:- A Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl Cunningham on the PSN Website. Regards, Chris Chapman
I haven't posted here in a while, but thought I might chime in here.
 
I built an extremely sensitive displacement sensor to use with one of<= /DIV>
my Lehmans. Now I could see all kinds of drift artifact that I could
not see before. [ By the way, the beech tree that I speculated (on=20 this
reflector) was causing tilt artifact when fully foliated...confirmed.= =20 Half
of it collapsed under sticky spring snow storm in '00, so I removed=20 the
whole tree. No change last fall or this spring.] Anyway, since I had
already gone to all the (excessive) effort I was willing in order to=20 make
the system mechanically stable, I decided to use a jack screw and=20 stepper
motor to move a chunk of lead back and forth on the slab to=20 automatically
cancel out drift. This worked OK, but seemed a bit crude, so I=20 finally
decided to use the force balance approach, which simply establishes a<= /DIV>
feedback loop to hold the boom in place, and takes the acceleration
component from the feedback loop. It also allowed me to go with a=20 pure
digital phase locked loop detection method of extraordinary=20 precision,
since you now are only concerned with "any displacement at all"=20 verses
"accurate representation of displacement"in your primary detection=20 loop.
The result is a real time stream of digital acceleration words which=20 you
COULD clock right into the parallel port on your PC, but I, who=20 prefer
analog recording on cash register paper, instead run them through a
D/A converter and integrate it in my recorder...JUST LIKE THE MAGNET
AND COIL DID ORIGINALLY.
 
So it proves that you CAN, in fact, through ample application=20 of ingenuity
and fanaticism, keep improving a system until it works almost as well = as=20 it
did before...
 
Tom
 
On Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:26 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes:
In a message dated 25/05= /01,=20 mja6042@............. writes:

It seems like the thing to do then = is=20 build Lehman with a displacement
sensor similar to the one found on a= =20 Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in
place of the magnet and coil on = the=20 boom of the Lehman.
Hi there Mark,=20

      Drift is likely to be the = biggest=20 problem. Lehmans are very sensitive
to tilt effects. The longer the=20 period, the greater the tilt sensitivity.
Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:54:59 -0400 > Have a look at:- A >Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl Cunningham > on the PSN Website. an i the only one that gets the text "Test -- This is a test." when viewing the page? ~Travis _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:05:19 -0500 Thomas, Do you have any pictures of your sensor. the link you sent is = broke. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas W Leiper=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 11:45 AM Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid I haven't posted here in a while, but thought I might chime in here. I built an extremely sensitive displacement sensor to use with one of my Lehmans. Now I could see all kinds of drift artifact that I could not see before. [ By the way, the beech tree that I speculated (on = this reflector) was causing tilt artifact when fully foliated...confirmed. = Half of it collapsed under sticky spring snow storm in '00, so I removed = the whole tree. No change last fall or this spring.] Anyway, since I had already gone to all the (excessive) effort I was willing in order to = make the system mechanically stable, I decided to use a jack screw and = stepper motor to move a chunk of lead back and forth on the slab to = automatically cancel out drift. This worked OK, but seemed a bit crude, so I finally decided to use the force balance approach, which simply establishes a feedback loop to hold the boom in place, and takes the acceleration component from the feedback loop. It also allowed me to go with a pure digital phase locked loop detection method of extraordinary precision, since you now are only concerned with "any displacement at all" verses "accurate representation of displacement"in your primary detection = loop. The result is a real time stream of digital acceleration words which = you COULD clock right into the parallel port on your PC, but I, who prefer analog recording on cash register paper, instead run them through a D/A converter and integrate it in my recorder...JUST LIKE THE MAGNET AND COIL DID ORIGINALLY. So it proves that you CAN, in fact, through ample application of = ingenuity and fanaticism, keep improving a system until it works almost as well = as it did before... Tom On Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:26 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: In a message dated 25/05/01, mja6042@............. writes:=20 It seems like the thing to do then is build Lehman with a = displacement=20 sensor similar to the one found on a Shackleford-Gundersen = seismometer in=20 place of the magnet and coil on the boom of the Lehman.=20 Hi there Mark,=20 Drift is likely to be the biggest problem. Lehmans are very = sensitive=20 to tilt effects. The longer the period, the greater the tilt = sensitivity.=20 [edited] The normal coil assembly used on a Lehman is sensitive to the rate = of change of position and isn't worried by small drifts.=20 Have a look at:- A Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl = Cunningham=20 on the PSN Website.=20 Regards, Chris Chapman=20
Thomas, Do you have any = pictures of=20 your sensor. the link you sent is broke.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas = W Leiper=20
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 = 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs.=20 Lehman...Hybrid

I haven't posted here in a while, but thought I might chime in=20 here.
 
I built an extremely sensitive displacement sensor to use with = one=20 of
my Lehmans. Now I could see all kinds of drift artifact that I=20 could
not see before. [ By the way, the beech tree that I speculated = (on=20 this
reflector) was causing tilt artifact when fully = foliated...confirmed.=20 Half
of it collapsed under sticky spring snow storm in '00, so I = removed=20 the
whole tree. No change last fall or this spring.] Anyway, since I=20 had
already gone to all the (excessive) effort I was willing in order = to=20 make
the system mechanically stable, I decided to use a jack screw and = stepper
motor to move a chunk of lead back and forth on the slab to=20 automatically
cancel out drift. This worked OK, but seemed a bit crude, so I=20 finally
decided to use the force balance approach, which simply = establishes=20 a
feedback loop to hold the boom in place, and takes the = acceleration
component from the feedback loop. It also allowed me to go with a = pure
digital phase locked loop detection method of extraordinary=20 precision,
since you now are only concerned with "any displacement at all"=20 verses
"accurate representation of displacement"in your primary = detection=20 loop.
The result is a real time stream of digital acceleration words = which=20 you
COULD clock right into the parallel port on your PC, but I, = who=20 prefer
analog recording on cash register paper, instead run them through = a
D/A converter and integrate it in my recorder...JUST LIKE THE=20 MAGNET
AND COIL DID ORIGINALLY.
 
So it proves that you CAN, in fact, through ample = application=20 of ingenuity
and fanaticism, keep improving a system until it works almost as = well as=20 it
did before...
 
Tom
 
On Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:26 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... = writes:
In a message dated = 25/05/01,=20 mja6042@............. writes:

It seems like the thing to do = then is=20 build Lehman with a displacement
sensor similar to the one found = on a=20 Shackleford-Gundersen seismometer in
place of the magnet and = coil on the=20 boom of the Lehman.
Hi there Mark,=20

      Drift is likely to be = the=20 biggest problem. Lehmans are very sensitive
to tilt effects. The = longer=20 the period, the greater the tilt sensitivity. =
[edited]
 
The normal coil = assembly used=20 on a Lehman is sensitive to the rate of
change of position = and isn't=20 worried by small drifts. =
      Have a look=20 at:- A Force-Balance = Seismometer=20 by Karl Cunningham
      on the = PSN=20 Website.

      Regards, Chris = Chapman=20
Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:06:43 -0700 Travis -- Sorry, I still haven't updated that. Temporarily use http://www.jps.net/karlc Thanks. karl --On Friday, May 25, 2001 12:54 PM -0400 Travis Farmer wrote: >> Have a look at:- A >> Force-Balance Seismometer by Karl Cunningham >> on the PSN Website. > > an i the only one that gets the text "Test -- This is a test." when > viewing the page? > ~Travis > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Regards, Karl Cunningham __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: WinQuake RMS feature From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:26:38 -0400 Hi gang, The recent questions about noise measurement brought to mind a new feature of WinQuake (Ver. 2.7 beta 6) which some of you may have overlooked. This would not help for general noise measurements but is pretty neat for any waveform you can display in WinQuake. For example, you can quantify the performance of your seismograph. There is an item in the "Calculate" menu "RMS/Max/Min". Click this and you will see RMS, Max, Min, Mean and the number of sample points. This calcualtion is done on the currently displayed waveform, i.e., either the whole record or the section you have zoomed in on. RMS is the root mean square value which is a good measure of the average of a complex wave form. Max and Min are what you would expect and the mean is the average. The mean tends toward zero when the DC offset has been removed because the pos. waves cancel the neg. waves. This is why the RMS is a better measure. The number of sample points is also shown. How well your seismograph records weak signals from 'quakes does not normally depend on "sensitivity". "Sensitivity" is usually thought of as the amount of output per unit of ground motion. With modern op amps, this can be made very high. What REALLY matters is the signal to noise ratio (S/N). This is useful in observing the performance of your seismograph over a period of time or after making changes (e.g., changes in the period of a Lehman) and/or comparing different seismographs. A useful measure of S/N can be obtained by finding the RMS value of a section of a seismogram before 'quake waves arrive (the N value) and comparing that to some measure of the size of the 'quake waves, e.g., peak-to-peak of the largest waves (the S) [Note 1]. For example, my S/N for the recent Jalisco Mexico 6.3 'quake was about 400 on a rather quiet day (RMS noise of 10 and max. peak-to-peak surface waves of 4,000.) Of course, the noise (N) is a combination of several things but the two principal sources are:1. Amplifier and filter noise, 2. Local seismic noise (LSN). The LSN varies a lot here but wind is a big contributer. The so-called microseisms (which peak around 0.16Hz) also contribute but are usually reduced by filtering. These may be due principally to waves breaking on a shore. Bob Barns Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of. ----------------------- Note 1. The peak-to-peak amplitude of the surface waves at your location can be approximated by the formula A = (T * log(dist) + 0.18))/1000 where A is the amplitude of ground motion in microns, T is the period of the waves (often about 20 secs. for teleseismic 'quakes), dist is the angular distance to the 'quake (get this from WinQuake, Calculate menu -> Great Circle Dist. -> Great circle dist.). The response of horizontal seismometers depends on the angle between the direction of arrival of the waves and the direction of max. response of the seismometers (which is perpendicular to the boom in a Lehman). This angle to the 'quake can be seen in WinQuake at Calculate menu -> Great circle dist. -> Station to event azimuth. The response is proportional to the cosine of the angle. There are many caveates to calculating the ground motion. There is a lot of good info about this in Sean-Thomas' letters in the psn Archives:9 Apr. 2000, 15 Nov. 2000 and 1 Dec. 2000. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:27:18 -0400 Actually, that was a link to Carl's site embedded in the earlier post(s) I was responding to. I can point you to a picture of my magnet/coil sensor within my ancient article on Larry's site: http://www.seismicnet.com/leiper/Image1.gif , or you can read the whole article on that system at: http://www.seismicnet.com/leiper/seismograph.html The only difference with the current scheme is that the coil is used for feedback instead of detection, and there is a little oscillator box with a capacitor plate on the side that sits to the left of the magnet core in the plan (overhead) view with a gap of about .050". That 250 Khz oscillator is phase locked to a 1 Mhz oven crystal oscillator standard by running the outputs of each into a divide by 512 and divide by 2048 resettable counter strings respectively. This results in a "sample" rate of about 500 samples per second (488 actually). Whichever counter reaches the maximum/minimum first either increments or decrements a 16 bit counter feeding a 16 bit D/A chip whose analog output (via some tailoring circuitry) drives the coil...thus moving the magnet and changing the capacitance gap and frequency of the variable oscillator. The only "response" adjustment is how you apply the digital counter error. The way the counter scheme works is kind of like a race between the two oscillators. Both counters are reset, and begin counting (actually "down") from their maximum. Whichever one gets to "zero" first begins clocking the A/D counter (up or down depending on which counter is the "winner") until the other counter reaches minimum. I have experimented with several increment/decrement schemes. The first was to simply increment or decrement by one count and immediatley reset both counters (regardless the actual difference) because the "sample" rate was sufficiently high to "move" my first ( 8 bit) A/D quickly enough to get good feedback response. Later (here comes the fanaticism) I switched to a 16 bit A/D and counter/driver and began to clock them with the "difference count" between the two counters reaching their minimums. When the first oscillator reaches minimum it gates increments or decrements (from any of the counter/divider outputs I choose) to the A/D counter until the other counter reaches minimum...at which time both counters are reset. This allows the increment rates and decrement rates to be independently adjusted if necessary. This will be especially useful for my next version of this experiment, which will utilize two "opposed" VFOs and get rid of the Lab standard oscillator. This will eliminate the temperature drift in the VFO (relative to the Standard) since both VFOs will be affected similarly by such changes. Overall, it is an extremely sensitive method of detection that shows great promise, but there are a few more things to do... Tom On Fri, 25 May 2001 13:05:19 -0500 "Bryan&Regina Goss" writes: Thomas, Do you have any pictures of your sensor. the link you sent is broke.
Actually, that was a link to Carl's site embedded in the earlier
post(s) I was responding to. I can point you to a picture of
my magnet/coil sensor within my ancient article on Larry's
site:  http://www.seismicnet.= com/leiper/Image1.gif ,=20 or you
can read the whole article on that system at:
http://www.= seismicnet.com/leiper/seismograph.html
 
The only difference with the current scheme is that the coil
is used for feedback instead of detection, and there is a
little oscillator box with a capacitor plate on the side that
sits to the left of the magnet core in the plan (overhead)
view with a gap of about .050". That 250 Khz oscillator
is phase locked to a 1 Mhz oven crystal oscillator standard
by running the outputs of each into a divide by 512 and
divide by 2048 resettable counter strings respectively.
This results in a "sample" rate of about 500 samples per
second (488 actually). Whichever counter reaches the
maximum/minimum first either increments or decrements
a 16 bit counter feeding a 16 bit D/A chip whose analog
output (via some tailoring circuitry) drives the coil...thus
moving the magnet and changing the capacitance gap and
frequency of the variable oscillator.
 
The only "response" adjustment is how you apply the
digital counter error. The way the counter scheme works
is kind of like a race between the two oscillators. Both counters
are reset, and begin counting (actually "down") from their
maximum. Whichever one gets to "zero" first begins clocking
the A/D counter (up or down depending on which counter
is the "winner") until the other counter reaches minimum.
 
I have experimented with several increment/decrement schemes.
The first was to simply increment or decrement by one count
and immediatley reset both counters (regardless the actual
difference) because the "sample" rate was sufficiently high
to "move" my first ( 8 bit) A/D quickly enough to get good
feedback response. Later (here comes the fanaticism) I switched
to a 16 bit A/D and counter/driver and began to clock them
with the "difference count" between the two counters reaching
their minimums. When the first oscillator reaches minimum
it gates increments or decrements (from any of the=20 counter/divider
outputs I choose) to the A/D counter until the other counter
reaches minimum...at which time both counters are reset. This
allows the increment rates and decrement rates to be independently
adjusted if necessary. This will be especially useful for my next
version of this experiment, which will utilize two "opposed" VFOs
and get rid of the Lab standard oscillator. This will=20 eliminate
the temperature drift in the VFO (relative to the Standard) since
both VFOs will be affected similarly by such changes.
 
Overall, it is an extremely sensitive method of detection that
shows great promise, but there are a few more things to do...
 
Tom
 
 
 
On Fri, 25 May 2001 13:05:19 -0500 "Bryan&Regina Goss" <bgoss@..................>=20 writes:
Thomas, Do you have any = pictures of=20 your sensor. the link you sent is broke.
= Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor noise measurement (tangential method) From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:27:54 -0700 The measure is twice the RMS value. See: Gary Franklin and Toy Hatley, "Don't Eyeball Noise...Unique Tangential Method," article in Electronic Design 24, November 22, 1973, pgs. 184-187 Siocos, and Quinn, "Oscilloscope Method for Measuring Signal-to-Noise Ratios," J. SMPTE, Feb. 1967, p. 121 Michael E. Gruchalla, "Measure Wide-Band White Noise Using a Standard Oscilloscope" in EDN in 1980: Gruchalla, "A Simple and Effective Procedure for Measurement of Wide-Bandwidth Noise," in Interference Technology Engineers' Master, item 1989, pgs. 272-288. I have copies of the first and last items and used them to quote references for the other two. The articles describe the method and the theory behind it. Charles R. Patton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Karl Cunningham wrote: > Now adjust the vertical position of one of the channels until the traces > overlap in such a way that the brightness of the display between the two > channels is almost constant. ... The number of divisions between the traces times the vertical > sensitivity is a measure of the noise of the signal. > > Unfortunately, I don't remember if this number is supposed to be peak, RMS, > or what. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:09:02 EDT In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... writes: > Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should work. You would have > to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors though. > By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that the output needs > only minimal amplification though it varies with the rated output of the > solar panels and the consistency of the light output. > My idea for a modification would be to use a laser pointer as a light > source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply for it. The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to 'solar cells' tend to be better matched as to sensitivity, change with temperature and reverse leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's are also noisy and their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten bulb driven from a voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage will give good performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red sensitivity of the Si cell. You can get good performance by butting two cells end to end and using a slit which exposes about half each cell. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... writes:

Althou gh I have not tried it, it seems like it should work. You would have
to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors though.
By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that the output needs
only minimal amplification though it varies with the rated output of the
solar panels and the consistency of the light output.
My idea for a modification would be to use a laser pointer as a light
source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply for it.
      The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to 'solar cells' tend to
be better matched as to sensitivity, change with temperature and reverse
leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's are also noisy and
their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten bulb driven from a
voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage will give good
performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red sensitivity of the Si cell.
You can get good performance by butting two cells end to end and using a slit
which exposes about half each cell.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:59:37 -0600 Hi Chris, You are almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD linear array and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The CCD array gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analog of the POSITION of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response limited. It is truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic velocity sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a system using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer. Another similar method is to monitor the relected laser beam with a simple optical interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This is done in the USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you can measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever color of light your laser is!! Best wishes- Dave Latsch ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... > writes: > > >> Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should >> work. You would have >> to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors >> though. >> By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that >> the output needs >> only minimal amplification though it varies with the >> rated output of the >> solar panels and the consistency of the light output. >> My idea for a modification would be to use a laser >> pointer as a light >> source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply >> for it. > > The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to > 'solar cells' tend to > be better matched as to sensitivity, change with > temperature and reverse > leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's > are also noisy and > their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten > bulb driven from a > voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage > will give good > performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red > sensitivity of the Si cell. > You can get good performance by butting two cells end to > end and using a slit > which exposes about half each cell. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman Hi Chris,

You are almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD linear array
and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The CCD array
gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analog of the POSITION
of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response limited. It is
truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic velocity
sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a system
using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer.  Another similar
method is to monitor the relected laser beam with a simple optical
interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This is done in the
USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you can
measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever color of
light your laser is!!

Best wishes-
Dave Latsch
 
 

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... writes:
 
Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should work. You would have
to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors though.
By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that the output needs
only minimal amplification though it varies with the rated output of the
solar panels and the consistency of the light output.
My idea for a modification would be to use a laser pointer as a light
source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply for it.

      The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to 'solar cells' tend to
be better matched as to sensitivity, change with temperature and reverse
leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's are also noisy and
their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten bulb driven from a
voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage will give good
performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red sensitivity of the Si cell.
You can get good performance by butting two cells end to end and using a slit
which exposes about half each cell.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:19:30 -0400 But doesn't a CCD have pixels? i would think this would create kind of a stepping data output. Though i have never actualy seen a CCD array so i may be compleatly wrong. By chance have you got a schematic i can study? ~Travis > >Hi Chris, > >You are almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD >linear array >and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The >CCD array >gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analog of >the POSITION >of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response >limited. It is >truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic >velocity >sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a >system >using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer. Another >similar >method is to monitor the relected laser beam with a simple >optical >interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This >is done in the >USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you >can >measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever >color of >light your laser is!! > >Best wishes- >Dave Latsch > > > >ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > > > In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... > > writes: > > > > > >> Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should > >> work. You would have > >> to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors > >> though. > >> By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that > >> the output needs > >> only minimal amplification though it varies with the > >> rated output of the > >> solar panels and the consistency of the light output. > >> My idea for a modification would be to use a laser > >> pointer as a light > >> source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply > >> for it. > > > > The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to > > 'solar cells' tend to > > be better matched as to sensitivity, change with > > temperature and reverse > > leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's > > are also noisy and > > their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten > > bulb driven from a > > voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage > > will give good > > performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red > > sensitivity of the Si cell. > > You can get good performance by butting two cells end to > > end and using a slit > > which exposes about half each cell. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris Chapman _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:49:49 -0600 Travis: Yes, it has pixels. The main design problem is to get aCCD array with LOTS of pixels. This will directly determine the dynamic range of the instrument in Db (decibels related to some given mechanical displacement.) So to have 30db dynamic range, you would need to have 1000 pixels in the CCD array. This is not very good, even for a crude seismo. So to get 40db. dynamic range, you need 10,000 pixels. This is about the limit for affordable CCD chips. One way around this is to use a large array for the low-level displacement and a second CCD for the larger excursions. Yes, you get "steps" but this is true of all digitizing devices including an A/D converter chip. A 12-bit A/D translates the incoming analog waveform into 4096 little stairsteps. The catch-22 in seismic signal processing is to have enough bits to accurately sample very low amplitude signals, no matter how what kind of seismometer generated them. The only tricky part to all this is to construct a stable optical lever. Dave Latsch Travis Farmer wrote: > But doesn't a CCD have pixels? > i would think this would create kind of a stepping data output. > Though i have never actualy seen a CCD array so i may be compleatly wrong. > By chance have you got a schematic i can study? > > ~Travis > > > > >Hi Chris, > > > >You are almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD > >linear array > >and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The > >CCD array > >gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analog of > >the POSITION > >of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response > >limited. It is > >truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic > >velocity > >sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a > >system > >using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer. Another > >similar > >method is to monitor the relected laser beam with a simple > >optical > >interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This > >is done in the > >USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you > >can > >measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever > >color of > >light your laser is!! > > > >Best wishes- > >Dave Latsch > > > > > > > >ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 25/05/01, travis5765@........... > > > writes: > > > > > > > > >> Although I have not tried it, it seems like it should > > >> work. You would have > > >> to make sure NO excess light fell onto the sensors > > >> though. > > >> By the way, I missed the page in scanning that told that > > >> the output needs > > >> only minimal amplification though it varies with the > > >> rated output of the > > >> solar panels and the consistency of the light output. > > >> My idea for a modification would be to use a laser > > >> pointer as a light > > >> source. make sure to have a well regulated power supply > > >> for it. > > > > > > The larger area silicon photocells as opposed to > > > 'solar cells' tend to > > > be better matched as to sensitivity, change with > > > temperature and reverse > > > leakage. Solid state Lasers are very noisy indeed. LED's > > > are also noisy and > > > their output is quite temperature dependant. A tungsten > > > bulb driven from a > > > voltage stabilised source at about 3/4 it's rated voltage > > > will give good > > > performance. You also benefit from the Infra Red > > > sensitivity of the Si cell. > > > You can get good performance by butting two cells end to > > > end and using a slit > > > which exposes about half each cell. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Chris Chapman > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ADXL202 Sensor From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:55:48 -0400 > From: Casey Crane > Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:35:29 -0700 > >How do you define "Counts of > noise" ? I have an O'scope But how do I measure this random or > psuedo-random stuff without a spectrum anylizer ? You don't need a scope, just the old eyeballs. And you need to use the gravitational field of the earth to calibrate your ADXL circuit board. What is your resolution? You can check that rotating your sensor from + to - 1g, where "g" is the gravitational field of the earth. For example, Larry Cochrane set his ADXL05 up so that his 16 bit a/c gave about 16000 counts/g. Then each count represented about 0.06mg (thousands of a g). See http://psn.quake.net/strongmotion.html What change in counts do you get when you rotate your board? What does each count represent in your system in mg? Now how many counts +/- do you get when the unit is sitting still? Larry got about +/-30 counts, and since his resolution was 0.06mg, the noise level was about about 2 mg. Just eyeball the output for a minute or two to get a rough reading of the range of the noise readings. The ADXL202 spec sheet has a formula that relates bandwidth (b) to noise level (n). It is approximately n=0.5*sqr(b) in mg. So if your bandwidth is 15 hz, your noise level is n=0.5*sqr(15)=~2mg. If you see a lot more noise than that you should recheck your circuit. > My AtoD is quiet as a mouse. I'm using an ADC0809 eight channel > AtoD and am using but four of these channels. I'm using the printer LPT1 > interface. Perhaps your resolution is much larger than 2 mg and that is why you are not seeing any noise? If you rotate your board from +/- 1g and the a/d does not change by at least 1000, then you need more gain or more a/d bits to make use of all the performance the ADXL202 is capable of. The ADXL202 has the same noise specs as Larry's ADXL05. The newer single channel ADLX105 has half the noise level of the ADXL05 and ADXL202. I recently built some boards with the 202 and 105 chips but my results for both were similar to Larrys. I did not see much improvement in the 105. If the ADXL noise level is about 2mg then the "shake maps" on the web suggest you have to be very close to a 4m quake to see anything with an ADXL based sensor. http://www.trinet.org/shake/ Ciao, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 07:58:36 EDT In a message dated 26/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes: Hi Chris, > You are almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD linear array > and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The CCD array > gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analogue of the POSITION > of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response limited. It is > truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic velocity > sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a system > using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer. Another similar > method is to monitor the reflected laser beam with a simple optical > interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This is done in the > USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you can > measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever color of > light your laser is! Dear Dave, What limitations are the USGS gravity observatory getting in terms of labda? For direct measurements with instruments like seismographs, you probably do need to get better resolution than can be easily provided by the wavelength of light. Measuring to small fractions of the wavelength is possible but difficult. I hadn't considered using a CCD strip because you have the addressing to do as well as the sensing, there is a minimum size of cell and a maximum length of strip that you can get. Using an optical lever increases the sensitivity but reduces the range. The mirrors can introduce vibration and thermal noise. I don't remember CCD arrays being particularly cheap. On a practical point, I don't think that you can mode lock the small cheap solid state lasers can you? They certainly don't focus very well compared to a He/Ne laser and the edges of the spot seem to move about. There will be a response rate / illumination level dependency for the CCD's, but it should not worry us. Aren't interferometers a bit expensive to construct, in requiring optical components finished to a great accuracy? > The main design problem is to get a CCD array with LOTS of pixels. This will >directly determine the dynamic range of the instrument in Db (decibels related to >some given mechanical displacement.) So to have 30db dynamic range, you would >need to have 1000 pixels in the CCD array. This is not very good, even for a crude >seismo. So to get 40db. dynamic range, you need 10,000 pixels. This is about the >limit for affordable CCD chips. What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get in a single strip, please? If you choose a method which relies on the wavelength of the light, like optical interference fringes, you will inevitably be limited by this. If you choose to use photon counting, the wavelength limitations do not apply, although other limits do. With a linear tungsten bulb and some simple optics, a couple of razor blades for the slit and two good Si photocells, you get an output which depends on the statistics of photon counting and not on the wavelength of the light. The method is remarkably good for our sort of tasks. The response frequency is limited by the output low pass filter and by the count statistics / position movement relationship. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 26/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes:

Hi Chris,
You ar e almost there-forget the photocells and use a CCD linear array
and a laser beam reflected off the vertical pendulum. The CCD array
gives you a clean, robust output that is a direct analogue of the POSITION
of the seismic mass. Hence it is not frequency-response limited. It is
truly an absolute position sensor, rather than the classic velocity
sensor with all its' attendant problems. I am cobbling up a system
using the guts from an old HP Laser-Jet printer.  Another similar
method is to monitor the reflected laser beam with a simple optical
interferometer and count the resulting fringe patterns. This is done in the
USGS gravity observatory instrument here in Boulder. Now you can
measure displacements down to to wavelength of whatever color of
light your laser is!


Dear Dave,

      What limitations are the USGS gravity observatory getting in terms of
labda? For direct measurements with instruments like seismographs, you
probably do need to get better resolution than can be easily provided by the
wavelength of light. Measuring to small fractions of the wavelength is
possible but difficult.
 
     I hadn't considered using a CCD strip because you have the addressing
to do as well as the sensing, there is a minimum size of cell and a maximum
length of strip that you can get. Using an optical lever increases the
sensitivity but reduces the range. The mirrors can introduce vibration and
thermal noise. I don't remember CCD arrays being particularly cheap.

      On a practical point, I don't think that you can mode lock the small
cheap solid state lasers can you? They certainly don't focus very well
compared to a He/Ne laser and the edges of the spot seem to move about. There
will be a response rate / illumination level dependency for the CCD's, but it
should not worry us. Aren't interferometers a bit expensive to construct, in
requiring optical components finished to a great accuracy?

> The main design problem is to get a CCD array with LOTS of pixels. This
will >directly determine the dynamic range of the instrument in Db (decibels
related to >some given mechanical displacement.) So to have 30db dynamic
range, you would >need to have 1000 pixels in the CCD array. This is not very
good, even for a crude >seismo. So to get 40db. dynamic range, you need
10,000 pixels. This is about the >limit for affordable CCD chips.  

      What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get
in a single strip, please?

     If you choose a method which relies on the wavelength of the light,
like optical interference fringes, you will inevitably be limited by this. If
you choose to use photon counting, the wavelength limitations do not apply,
although other limits do. With a linear tungsten bulb and some simple optics,
a couple of razor blades for the slit and two good Si photocells, you get an
output which depends on the statistics of photon counting and not on the
wavelength of the light. The method is remarkably good for our sort of tasks.
The response frequency is limited by the output low pass filter and by the
count statistics / position movement relationship.
      
     Regards,  

     Chris Chapman      
Subject: Re: Equipment: SG vs. Lehman...Hybrid From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:04:25 -0700 One might take a peek at Allan Coleman's web site, in relation to the topic of opto-electronics, where he uses a small Radio Shack incandescent bulb and acouple small photodiodes in his VBB horizontal seismometer. This looks alot more feasible to myself as a non-high-tech amateur. http://hometown.aol.com/acole65464/OS_2000.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Simple photoelectrics From: "George Harris" gjharris@............. Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:38:26 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb > > One might take a peek at Allan Coleman's web site, in relation > to the topic of opto-electronics, where he uses a small > Radio Shack incandescent bulb and acouple small photodiodes > in his VBB horizontal seismometer. This looks alot more > feasible to myself as a non-high-tech amateur. The very simple and quiet photosensor system can be made from a bright, large LED and two small silicon solor cells. The cells are placed side by side and connected in parallel opposing across the + and - inputs of a quiet opamp. (I use OP 77's). The value of the feedback resistor defines the gain. The sensors part 980-0150 (VTD34) from Allied are about 1/8 inch square, and work well. At $1.59 each they are hard to beat. A major advantage of silicon dells is that they have very nearly the same sensitivity from unit to unit. Place the cells in a hole on one side of a block, the LED on the other, and have the moving element enter a hole from the third side. The system is linear for about 1/8 inch of motion. If larger motion is desired, the cells can be larger. A cover may be required for the sensor area if the complete seismometer is not covered to avoid changes in overall light level. The moving element has a projection which has the same width as the diminsion of one cell and is placed to intercept half of each cell. Due to the fact that both cells are illuminated by the same source, small changes in illumination cancel out. The system is capable of detecting nanometer motions with low noise. George Harris gjharris@.............. 707-751-1936 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:21:04 -0700 Is there really....any technical advantage to using two side by side photocells (misc variety in a differential bridge), as opposed to using just one alone? I'd think one cell would be simplier mechanically but I'am not sure if it would react the same circuit wise or as well (?) as two cells. Its kind of relivant, as I'am on a large bright LED and single CDS (photoresistor) sensor project at the moment...which could be changed over time. Meredith Lamb George Harris wrote: > > The very simple and quiet photosensor system can be made from a bright, > large LED and > two small silicon solor cells. The cells are placed side by side and > connected in parallel > opposing across the + and - inputs of a quiet opamp. (I use OP 77's). __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 19:38:39 -0400 The reason for the 2 cells is this. The circuit is connected so the two cells basically short each other out. Here is a basic diagram I will use for the following examples. http://www.geocities.com/travis5765/seismo/images/photocell_sensor.png There are 3 examples. Figure 1 with the light spot centered between cells 1 and 2, figure 2 with the spot on cell 1, and figure 3 with the spot on cell 2. Because the cells are shorted, if they both have the same light intensity, such as the case in figure 1, the signal at A and B is NULL. no signal. In figure 2 and 3, the signal is the difference of cell 1 and 2. Lets say for this example that signal B is connected to the + input of the recorder and that signal A is connected to the - input. with this connection, cell 1 outputs a positive phase signal and cell 2 a negative phase signal. We can also say for this example that each cell outputs 5 volts with the light source. So in figure 2, the light spot is on cell 1 and not at all on cell 2. so cell 1 outputs the full 5 volts. so we figure +5v + -0v = +5v. In figure 2, the spot is fully on cell 2 and not at all on cell 1. +0v + -5v = -5v. anywhere in between the two cells can be calculated the same way. Say for instance, the spot is positioned in such a way that cell 1 outputs 3 volts and cell 2 outputs -2 volts. then we have +3v + -2v = +1v. The signal output can be calculated to tell almost exactly where the light spot falls on the 2 cells. Using one cell as you mentioned can be done. you would only have a single phase output though. The system would have to be setup so that the spot fell on the place needed to output a centered signal (5 volts at full spot would need it to be positioned so that 2.5 volts were outputted. So like I said, it can be done but it is a little more work to calibrate. I hope I didn't cause a lot of confusion (my explanations seem to do that sometimes). if you need me to clarify something, let me know. ~Travis >From: "meredith lamb" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics >Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:21:04 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.100.224.130] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCDACB0A00544004311AD864E08204F70; Sun May 27 15:30:37 2001 >Received: from dnvrpop5.dnvr.uswest.net (unverified [206.196.128.7]) by >sys5.webtronics.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id > for ; Sun, 27 May >2001 15:21:36 -0700 >Received: (qmail 82182 invoked by uid 0); 27 May 2001 22:20:06 -0000 >Received: from dnvrapanas87poolb199.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) >(65.100.179.199) by dnvrpop5.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 27 May 2001 >22:20:06 -0000 >From larry_cochrane@.............. Sun May 27 15:32:16 2001 >Message-ID: <3B118BE0.663F30E8@.........> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >References: <66.f635a71.284245ec@.......> <3B112589.9FF9D37D@.........> ><001201c0e6f5$5e4aa4a0$7efdb3d1@george> >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > >Is there really....any technical advantage to using two side by >side photocells (misc variety in a differential bridge), as opposed >to using just one alone? I'd think one cell would be simplier >mechanically but I'am not sure if it would react the same >circuit wise or as well (?) as two cells. > >Its kind of relivant, as I'am on a large bright LED and single >CDS (photoresistor) sensor project at the moment...which could >be changed over time. > >Meredith Lamb > >George Harris wrote: > > > > > The very simple and quiet photosensor system can be made from a bright, > > large LED and > > two small silicon solor cells. The cells are placed side by side and > > connected in parallel > > opposing across the + and - inputs of a quiet opamp. (I use OP 77's). > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:56:53 EDT In a message dated 27/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes: > Is there really....any technical advantage to using two side by > side photocells (misc variety in a differential bridge), as opposed > to using just one alone? I'd think one cell would be simpler > mechanically but I'm not sure if it would react the same > circuit wise or as well (?) as two cells. > > Its kind of relevant, as I'am on a large bright LED and single > CDS (photoresistor) sensor project at the moment...which could > be changed over time. > Dear Meredith, You might like to consider some of the following design ideas:- Precision Si photocells have closely matching characteristics in terms of sensitivity, wavelength response, change of sensitivity with illumination, change of sensitivity with temperature and reverse leakage current. The response is fast, free of drift and the photo current is linear with illumination. It is not possible to buy CdS cells matched to anything like this precision. The response is very much slower and may show drift over some seconds. The CdS response is very non linear with changes in illumination level and any two cells may be expected to have significantly different response curves. They are also quite temperature sensitive. If you use a single photo cell, it's output level will change with changes in illumination, temperature etc. as well as with any movements of the slit. If you use two matched cells in a bridge, the centre zero position is effectively constant since the signals are subtracted and only the offset (signal) scaling is effected. This is a great advantage for instruments like seismometers which have a central balance point. Seismometers need a sensor with both very high sensitivity and very high stability. The light output of a LED varies quite strongly with it's temperature. The light has a considerably higher intrinsic noise than a filament lamp. LEDs are 'fast' devices and will faithfully copy any electrical noise from the power supply into the emitted light. The light output does change with age. Providing a good heat sink to reduce temperature changes only helps a bit. If you run a filament lamp from a stabilised power source of 2/3 to 3/4 it's rated voltage, the filament life becomes virtually infinite. The light intensity is high and the sensitivity to ambient temperature changes is small. The slightly yellower light does not matter, since a Si cell has a high sensitivity into the near Infra Red. To vary the light output you have to change the filament temperature and the 'thermal inertia' tends to damp rapid fluctuations such as noise in the power supply. You may need to take precautions to cool the glass envelope and the metal glass seals and to avoid the heat causing convective air currents. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 27/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes:

Is the re really....any technical advantage to using two side by
side photocells (misc variety in a differential bridge), as opposed
to using just one alone?  I'd think one cell would be simpler
mechanically but I'm not sure if it would react the same
circuit wise or as well (?) as two cells.

Its kind of relevant, as I'am on a large bright LED and single
CDS (photoresistor) sensor project at the moment...which could
be changed over time.

Dear Meredith,
      
      You might like to consider some of the following design ideas:-

      Precision Si photocells have closely matching characteristics in terms
of sensitivity, wavelength response, change of sensitivity with illumination,
change of sensitivity with temperature and reverse leakage current. The
response is fast, free of drift and the photo current is linear with
illumination. It is not possible to buy CdS cells matched to anything like
this precision. The response is very much slower and may show drift over some
seconds. The CdS response is very non linear with changes in illumination
level and any two cells may be expected to have significantly different
response curves. They are also quite temperature sensitive.

      If you use a single photo cell, it's output level will change with
changes in illumination, temperature etc. as well as with any movements of
the slit. If you use two matched cells in a bridge, the centre zero position
is effectively constant since the signals are subtracted and only the offset
(signal) scaling is effected. This is a great advantage for instruments like
seismometers which have a central balance point. Seismometers need a sensor
with both very high sensitivity and very high stability.

      The light output of a LED varies quite strongly with it's temperature.
The light has a considerably higher intrinsic noise than a filament lamp.
LEDs are 'fast' devices and will faithfully copy any electrical noise from
the power supply into the emitted light. The light output does change with
age. Providing a good heat sink to reduce temperature changes only helps a
bit.

      If you run a filament lamp from a stabilised power source of 2/3 to
3/4 it's rated voltage, the filament life becomes virtually infinite. The
light intensity is high and the sensitivity to ambient temperature changes is
small. The slightly yellower light does not matter, since a Si cell has a
high sensitivity into the near Infra Red. To vary the light output you have
to change the filament temperature and the 'thermal inertia' tends to damp
rapid fluctuations such as noise in the power supply. You may need to take
precautions to cool the glass envelope and the metal glass seals and to avoid
the heat causing convective air currents.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: help me From: agustri agustri@......... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:43:40 +0700 Help me, We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we only have 12 v dc from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my problems, Thankyou. Agus Tri Sutanto MGA, Indonesia __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:39:48 -0700 Hi Travis, Thanks for the reply and of course your illustration is also excellent (as usual). Your wording examples are also very well done and throw out any mystery to using two cells. Most instructive and helpful! Thanks again, Meredith Lamb Travis Farmer wrote: > The reason for the 2 cells is this. The circuit is connected so the two > cells basically short each other out. > Here is a basic diagram I will use for the following examples. > http://www.geocities.com/travis5765/seismo/images/photocell_sensor.png > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:53:00 -0700 ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > I > Dear Meredith, > > You might like to consider some of the following design ideas:- > > Precision Si photocells have closely matching characteristics in > terms > of sensitivity, wavelength response, change of sensitivity with > illumination, > change of sensitivity with temperature and reverse leakage current. > The > response is fast, free of drift and the photo current is linear with > illumination. It is not possible to buy CdS cells matched to anything > like > this precision. The response is very much slower and may show drift > over some > seconds. The CdS response is very non linear with changes in > illumination > level and any two cells may be expected to have significantly > different > response curves. They are also quite temperature sensitive. Hi Chris, I'd suspect that any matched cells would have a very high price tag, although I've not obtained any prices. On the cheap side, is there a way to use only a digital volt-ohm-meter, that perhaps might yield some "close" characteristics; say from a limited number of single cells (probably not likely)? Any brand name spring to mind that seems to offer more consistency than other brands? I have some Centronic P/N OSD15-5T photovoltiac cells, but I've no idea of their production quality control or standing among other makers. Thanks for the reply with all the notes, they all seem quite instructive...and welcome of course. Meredith Lamb  

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

I
Dear Meredith,

      You might like to consider some of the following design ideas:-

      Precision Si photocells have closely matching characteristics in terms
of sensitivity, wavelength response, change of sensitivity with illumination,
change of sensitivity with temperature and reverse leakage current. The
response is fast, free of drift and the photo current is linear with
illumination. It is not possible to buy CdS cells matched to anything like
this precision. The response is very much slower and may show drift over some
seconds. The CdS response is very non linear with changes in illumination
level and any two cells may be expected to have significantly different
response curves. They are also quite temperature sensitive.

Hi Chris,

I'd suspect that any matched cells would have a very high price
tag, although I've not obtained any prices.  On the cheap side,
is there a way to use only a digital volt-ohm-meter, that perhaps
might yield some "close" characteristics; say from a limited
number of single cells (probably not likely)?  Any brand name
spring to mind that seems to offer more consistency than other
brands?  I have some Centronic P/N OSD15-5T photovoltiac
cells, but I've no idea of their production quality control or standing
among other makers.

Thanks for the reply with all the notes, they all seem quite
instructive...and welcome of course.

Meredith Lamb
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: help me From: twleiper@........ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:50:14 -0400 Use an inverter (12V dc to 120AC) and twice as many batteries and solar panels as you originally thought you'd need... Tom On Mon, 28 May 2001 10:43:40 +0700 agustri writes: > Help me, > We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this > seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. > My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we > only > have 12 v dc > from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. > I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my > problems, Thankyou. > > Agus Tri Sutanto > MGA, Indonesia > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help me From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 06:08:08 -0500 Hello Agustri, Remote stations are always fun and challenging. In order to help you better you need to give us a little more information. What kind of amplifiers are you going to use? What kind of digitizers are you going to use? What computer will read the digitizer and do the data logging? Does your data logger also do the amplification and digitizing? What are the voltage and current requirement for all the above in your system? Many electronic boxes can also work with DC voltages, sometimes even more efficiently. I have remote systems and systems the run off 12v, you can do it! Please write with as much information as you can give us. Warmly, ángel www.volcanbaru.com Sunday, May 27, 2001, 10:43:40 PM, you wrote: a> Help me, a> We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this a> seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. a> My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we only a> have 12 v dc a> from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. a> I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my a> problems, Thankyou. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help me From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 07:32:36 -0400 > From: agustri > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:43:40 +0700 > > Help me, > We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this > seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. > My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we only > have 12 v dc > from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. > I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my > problems, Thankyou. Do you already have some kind of computer or other data storage device to record the seismometer output? I am working on some seismometer electronics that can operate at 5v @ 4 ma. It has a serial output of 16 bit numbers at 4 to 20 samples per second. http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/. The data rate depends on the type of sensor that you are using: long period, short period or strong motion. What kind of sensor do you have? The simplest way to record this serial data is with a PC running the Amaseis program. However if you can not run a PC with your limited power I might be able to include some 64kb memory chips on my board, and set up my microprocessor software to record short data segments triggered by seismic events. These could be dumped into a PC occasionally. At 20 sps each chip could store ~20 minutes of data. Hope this helps, Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:29:56 -0700 Hi John Lahrs, Casey here, I haven't gotten to disassembling a speaker magnet assembly as of yet. Due to present workspace restrictions I have to limit th size of my projects to the kitchen table. Therefore I've been spending the time working on the electronics and software portion of the system. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the SG type of sensor , because of the smaller footprint and its unidirectionallity. My wife and I are looking forward to moving sometime this summer and am hoping to find a place that I might be able to bolt the sensor unit(s) to a concrete base (patio or garage). Looking in southeast California and Arizona. Thanks, Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics From: "George Harris" gjharris@............. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:55:16 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Simple photoelectrics > Is there really....any technical advantage to using two side by > side photocells (misc variety in a differential bridge), as opposed > to using just one alone? I'd think one cell would be simplier > mechanically but I'am not sure if it would react the same > circuit wise or as well (?) as two cells. To check the noise level, I turned up the gain on a feedback unit until local noise was clearly visible on the oscilloscope. Then I clamped the arm and looked at the noise again. Clamped, it was much lower, so I am convinced that the noise level of the sensors is much lower than the background. I suggest the same check be made with any sensor system. The drift should be less with a differential system also. As has been suggested by others, the balanced system reduces drift from temperature, power supply, light source aging, etc. Checking a group of small solar cells, I have found that they have nearly identical characteristics. George Harris George Harris __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN2 to PSN3 From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:48:55 -0500 Hi Everyone, I would like to know if anyone has a stand alone program that will convert a PSN2 (text) file into a PSN3 file. something I could include in a batch file or run from the command line. I know that I can do it from Winquake but I can only do it one file at a time. I want to be able to do many files at time. Thanks. Angel mailto: angel@............ www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:56:34 EDT In a message dated 28/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes: > I'd suspect that any matched cells would have a very high price > tag, although I've not obtained any prices. Hammatsu make very good photocells. They are not too expensive http://www.hamamatsu.com/ . Silonex look interesting at http://www.silonex.com/ . There is also VacTec. I don't know much about other US makes. The ones I use are made by Siemens BPW34 BPX90 BPX48 etc. The dual BPX48 is matched to within 5%. See http://www.infineon.com/products/products.htm Allied at http://www.alliedelec.com/default.asp p563 & 565 have quite a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's which are similar to the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. I bought several cells and found that they all matched to a few %. You can get cells half the width and also in pairs on a common substrate. You can also get a range of areas from 1 to 100 sq mm. Do not use blue enhanced Si diodes. Their sensitivity is MUCH too low (by a factor of 5 ~ 10). The resolution that you can get improves with increasing photo current. I use the Mini DIP type cell with a clear moulded case. You do not want a lens or even a metal can - the chip is then rather far away from the shutter and you get internal reflections since the Mfgrs don't bother to blacken the inside of their cans.... The size of the can also prevents you placing two chips close together. I have not tried using the coated planar chips with connecting wires, but they should be quite OK if stuck onto an insulating heatsink with epoxy. A small piece of a black oxidised Al heat sink should be fine. A carefully broken new razor blade gives an excellent knife edge for the shutter. I > have some Centronic P/N OSD15-5T photovoltiac > cells, but I've no idea of their production quality control or standing > Do you have a US Website for these devices please? I do not have a reference for -5T devices. Are they metal can types with flat glass covers? The Centronic cells that I have used were good. Hope that this helps, Chris Chapman In a message dated 28/05/01, mlamb1@......... writes:

I'd su spect that any matched cells would have a very high price
tag, although I've not obtained any prices.  


      Hammatsu make very good photocells. They are not too expensive
http://www.hamamatsu.com/ . Silonex look interesting at
http://www.silonex.com/ . There is also VacTec. I don't know much about other
US makes.
The ones I use are made by Siemens BPW34 BPX90 BPX48 etc. The dual BPX48 is
matched to within 5%. See http://www.infineon.com/products/products.htm

      Allied at http://www.alliedelec.com/default.asp p563 & 565 have quite
a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's which are
similar to the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. I
bought several cells and found that they all matched to a few %.

      You can get cells half the width and also in pairs on a common
substrate. You can also get a range of areas from 1 to 100 sq mm. Do not use
blue enhanced Si diodes. Their sensitivity is MUCH too low (by a factor of 5
~ 10). The resolution that you can get improves with increasing photo
current. I use the Mini DIP type cell with a clear moulded case. You do not
want a lens or even a metal can - the chip is then rather far away from the
shutter and you get internal reflections since the Mfgrs don't bother to
blacken the inside of their cans.... The size of the can also prevents you
placing two chips close together. I have not tried using the coated planar
chips with connecting wires, but they should be quite OK if stuck onto an
insulating heatsink with epoxy. A small piece of a black oxidised Al heat
sink should be fine. A carefully broken new razor blade gives an excellent
knife edge for the shutter.

  I
have s ome Centronic P/N OSD15-5T photovoltiac
cells, but I've no idea of their production quality control or standing
among other makers.


      Do you have a US Website for these devices please? I do not have a
reference for -5T devices. Are they metal can types with flat glass covers?
The Centronic cells that I have used were good.

        Hope that this helps,

      Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:40:47 -0700 Hi Chris, and all, Wow!....thanks for the references and all the very patient help. The Centronic units I have, do have all the characteristics you advise against....ha...even to the blue enhancement. They are round cans, and look to be filled with some clear substance that even encases the photovoltiacs themselves...they can't be salvaged for use...I've already tried that. The web address is: http://www.centronic.co.uk ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > Allied at http://www.alliedelec.com/default.asp p563 & 565 have > quite > a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's which > are > similar to the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. > I > bought several cells and found that they all matched to a few %. > Yes indeed this all helps....actually it all decidedly enhances the pursuit of opto-electronics for overall amateur seismology in my opinion. Some things were a surprise in their discussion, use and even the extraordinary logical selection of such. For my current use, I have to use this approach; as its for a diamagnetic levitated spectoscopic graphite rod used as a tiltmeter/seismometer. I'am convinced I need to scrap some previous electronic parts, and get some better material....the results will likely be much more accurate in the overall evaluation experiment, than what I could dredge up alone...ha. Many thanks to all, Meredith Lamb Hi Chris, and all,

Wow!....thanks for the references and all the very patient help.  The
Centronic units I have, do have all the characteristics you advise
against....ha...even to the blue enhancement.  They are round cans,
and look to be filled with some clear substance that even encases the
photovoltiacs themselves...they can't be salvaged for use...I've
already tried that.   The web address is:

http://www.centronic.co.uk

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

      Allied at http://www.alliedelec.com/default.asp p563 & 565 have quite
a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's which are
similar to the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. I
bought several cells and found that they all matched to a few %.
 
Yes indeed this all helps....actually it all decidedly enhances the pursuit
of opto-electronics for overall amateur seismology in my opinion.
Some things were a surprise in their discussion, use and even the
extraordinary logical selection of such.  For my current use, I have to
use this approach; as its for a diamagnetic levitated spectoscopic graphite
rod used as a tiltmeter/seismometer.  I'am convinced I need to scrap
some previous electronic parts, and get some better material....the results
will likely be much more accurate in the overall evaluation experiment,
than what I could dredge up alone...ha.

Many thanks to all,

Meredith Lamb

  Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:15:58 -0400 All this talk about precision matching and ambient light, spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take a lesson from some age-old aeronautical techiniqes. VOR. You could put a cheap linear filament bulb (like fish tank bulbs) inside a rotating can with a vertical slit (aligned with the bulb filament). Put one photocell close to the can for a reference signal. As the can rotates you get a timing pulse... Now you mount one long skinny mirror on the side of your boom, and another to the base a few inches away and parallel (so the mirrors are opposing each other). Mount your second photocell "aimed" into one end of this "angular amplification channel" at about 45 deg, and the rotating source similarly at the other end. As the boom moves it causes the phase angle between the reference pulse and the detector pulse to change, and the rest is all down hill. You simply need some circuitry to clean up the pulses, and thare are many ways you can detect the phase changes. The nice thing about this method is that ambient light and photo detector response curves don't matter. Choosing the right RPM and motor to give stable response would be the biggest challenge. Just an idea... Tom On Mon, 28 May 2001 22:40:47 -0700 "meredith lamb" writes: Hi Chris, and all, Wow!....thanks for the references and all the very patient help. The Centronic units I have, do have all the characteristics you advise against....ha...even to the blue enhancement. They are round cans, and look to be filled with some clear substance that even encases the photovoltiacs themselves...they can't be salvaged for use...I've already tried that. The web address is: http://www.centronic.co.uk ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: Allied at http://www.alliedelec.com/default.asp p563 & 565 have quite a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's which are similar to the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. I bought several cells and found that they all matched to a few %. Yes indeed this all helps....actually it all decidedly enhances the pursuit of opto-electronics for overall amateur seismology in my opinion. Some things were a surprise in their discussion, use and even the extraordinary logical selection of such. For my current use, I have to use this approach; as its for a diamagnetic levitated spectoscopic graphite rod used as a tiltmeter/seismometer. I'am convinced I need to scrap some previous electronic parts, and get some better material....the results will likely be much more accurate in the overall evaluation experiment, than what I could dredge up alone...ha. Many thanks to all, Meredith Lamb

All this talk about precision matching and ambient light,
spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use
a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take
a lesson from some age-old aeronautical techiniqes. VOR.
 
You could put a cheap linear filament bulb (like fish tank
bulbs) inside a rotating can with a vertical slit (aligned with
the bulb filament). Put one photocell close to the can for
a reference signal. As the can rotates you get a timing
pulse...  Now you mount one long skinny mirror on the
side of your boom, and another to the base a few inches
away and parallel (so the mirrors are opposing each other).
 
Mount your second photocell "aimed" into one end of this
"angular amplification channel" at about 45 deg, and the
rotating source similarly at the other end. As the boom moves
it causes the phase angle between the reference pulse and
the detector pulse to change, and the rest is all down hill.
 
You simply need some circuitry to clean up the pulses, and
thare are many ways you can detect the phase changes. The
nice thing about this method is that ambient light and photo
detector response curves don't matter. Choosing the right
RPM and motor to give stable response would be the
biggest challenge.
 
Just an idea...
 
Tom
 
On Mon, 28 May 2001 22:40:47 -0700 "meredith lamb" <mlamb1@.........> writes:
Hi Chris, and all,

Wow!....thanks for the references and all the very patient help. = The=20
Centronic units I have, do have all the characteristics you advise=20
against....ha...even to the blue enhancement.  They are round = cans,=20
and look to be filled with some clear substance that even encases the= =20
photovoltiacs themselves...they can't be salvaged for use...I've=20
already tried that.   The web address is:=20

http://www.centronic.co.uk= =20

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:=20

      Allied at http://www.alliedelec.= com/default.asp=20 p563 & 565 have quite
a few suitable products with planar technology. I use BPW34's= which=20 are
= similar to=20 the VTD34 980 0150 @ $1.69 that George Harris recommended. I=20
bought several cells = and found=20 that they all matched to a few %.
 
Yes indeed this all=20 helps....actually it all decidedly enhances the pursuit
of=20 opto-electronics for overall amateur seismology in my opinion.
Some = things=20 were a surprise in their discussion, use and even the
extraordinary=20 logical selection of such.  For my current use, I have to
use = this=20 approach; as its for a diamagnetic levitated spectoscopic graphite
= rod=20 used as a tiltmeter/seismometer.  I'am convinced I need to scrap some=20 previous electronic parts, and get some better material....the results=20
will likely be much more accurate in the overall evaluation = experiment,=20
than what I could dredge up alone...ha.=20

Many thanks to all,=20

Meredith Lamb=20

=20

 
Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:04:18 EDT In a message dated 29/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > All this talk about precision matching and ambient light, > spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use > a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take > Dear Tom, Was anyone talking about photographic techniques? We were considering the precautions / choices necessary to get optical detection methods to work OK for very small movements. How would your method cope with movements from 1 sec of arc down to maybe 1/100 sec of arc? I would be very interested to read your calculations. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 29/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

All th is talk about precision matching and ambient light,
spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use
a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take
a lesson from some age-old aeronautical techniqes. VOR
Dear Tom,

      Was anyone talking about photographic techniques? We were considering
the precautions / choices necessary to get optical detection methods to work
OK for very small movements. How would your method cope with movements from 1
sec of arc down to maybe 1/100 sec of arc? I would be very interested to read
your calculations.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: twleiper@........ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:05:53 -0400 I have no calculations. About ten years ago I erected a very efficient solar collector to pre-heat my well water. Among other things, it tracked the Sun in order to maximize the yield. I built a photo-cell / optical system to do so with much experimentation, but ran into the challenge of the diffusion caused by overcast days, non-linear cell response and so forth. So then I added a "jog" cycle that would just reset the collector to due east every morning and then drive it westward for a few seconds every so-many minutes, and that would keep the dual photo-cell detector close to target. This worked fairly well until a thunderstorm took out the photo-cell amplifier that was located up on the collector, at which point I realized that the jog-cycle method alone was equally good and far less trouble. That's the last time I used photo-cells to detect anything. The method I speculated earlier today was off the top of my head. But it does make sense to see if the numbers agree with my instinct. A modest attempt follows: It seems reasonable that the "angular amplifier" I described using two opposed mirrors that move slightly off parallel should work and, if you were spinning the slit at around 30 revs per second any noise and instability would be effectively averaged out for any but the shortest period instruments. And, depending upon how many times you bounce the path between the mirrors it seems reasonable that you should get a amplification of angular displacement of the boom by at least an order of magnitude, meaning that the .01 arc/sec requirement becomes .1 arc/sec. This could also be expressed as about 1/200,000 of a revolution and would occur in about 160 nanoseconds in the 30 RPS example. Detecting phase shifts in 160 ns chunks is a piece of cake, in fact you could probably go down another order of magnitude. All I know is that I can track a radial on a VOR to the degree, and that thing also uses an antenna that's spinning at 1800 RPM ... AND you have all sorts of variables like RF propagation. It seems that with light, good design and controlled conditions (all of which you can provide) one should be able to do at least a thousand times better. On the other hand, I have a cat that always seems to sleeping on the sunroom sofa whenever a major quake occurs around the world. Maybe I can put that to good use... Tom On Tue, 29 May 2001 17:04:18 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: > In a message dated 29/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > > > All this talk about precision matching and ambient light, > > spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use > > a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take > > > > Dear Tom, > > Was anyone talking about photographic techniques? We were > considering > the precautions / choices necessary to get optical detection methods > to work > OK for very small movements. How would your method cope with > movements from 1 > sec of arc down to maybe 1/100 sec of arc? I would be very > interested to read > your calculations. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:31:41 -0700 I wonder how Rube Goldburg would deal with this. Casey
I wonder how Rube Goldburg would deal with this.
 
Casey
Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:17:32 -0600 Hello All, Much easier to use the linear CCD array-all the Rube Goldberg fixes are not needed! DL twleiper@........ wrote: > I have no calculations. About ten years ago I erected a very > efficient solar collector to pre-heat my well water. Among > other things, it tracked the Sun in order to maximize the > yield. I built a photo-cell / optical system to do so with > much experimentation, but ran into the challenge of the > diffusion caused by overcast days, non-linear cell response > and so forth. So then I added a "jog" cycle that would just > reset the collector to due east every morning and then drive > it westward for a few seconds every so-many minutes, and > that would keep the dual photo-cell detector close to target. > This worked fairly well until a thunderstorm took out the > photo-cell amplifier that was located up on the collector, > at which point I realized that the jog-cycle method alone > was equally good and far less trouble. That's the last > time I used photo-cells to detect anything. > > The method I speculated earlier today was off the top of > my head. But it does make sense to see if the numbers > agree with my instinct. A modest attempt follows: > > It seems reasonable that the "angular amplifier" I > described using two opposed mirrors that move slightly > off parallel should work and, if you were spinning the slit > at around 30 revs per second any noise and instability would > be effectively averaged out for any but the shortest period > instruments. And, depending upon how many times you > bounce the path between the mirrors it seems reasonable > that you should get a amplification of angular displacement > of the boom by at least an order of magnitude, meaning that > the .01 arc/sec requirement becomes .1 arc/sec. This could > also be expressed as about 1/200,000 of a revolution and > would occur in about 160 nanoseconds in the 30 RPS example. > Detecting phase shifts in 160 ns chunks is a piece of cake, > in fact you could probably go down another order of magnitude. > > All I know is that I can track a radial on a VOR to the degree, and > that thing also uses an antenna that's spinning at 1800 RPM ... > AND you have all sorts of variables like RF propagation. It seems > that with light, good design and controlled conditions (all of which > you can provide) one should be able to do at least a thousand > times better. > > On the other hand, I have a cat that always seems to sleeping > on the sunroom sofa whenever a major quake occurs around > the world. Maybe I can put that to good use... > > Tom > > On Tue, 29 May 2001 17:04:18 EDT ChrisAtUpw@....... writes: > > In a message dated 29/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > > > > > All this talk about precision matching and ambient light, > > > spectral response, etc., seems crazy. If you really must use > > > a photographic system (without film on a drum) why take > > > > > > > Dear Tom, > > > > Was anyone talking about photographic techniques? We were > > considering > > the precautions / choices necessary to get optical detection methods > > to work > > OK for very small movements. How would your method cope with > > movements from 1 > > sec of arc down to maybe 1/100 sec of arc? I would be very > > interested to read > > your calculations. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris Chapman > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: mprice@........ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:08:29 -0700 twleiper@........ wrote: > [snip] > other things, it tracked the Sun in order to maximize the > yield. I built a photo-cell / optical system to do so with > much experimentation, but ran into the challenge of the > diffusion caused by overcast days, non-linear cell response > and so forth. So then I added a "jog" cycle that would just > reset the collector to due east every morning and then drive There are commercial solar systems that achieve this by using a fluid that is evaporated by sunlight resulting in a weight shift that causes the panel to track the sun. As the fluid re-condenses after sunset, the panel returns to the rest position facing east. Think about those bobbing glass birds in cups of water for an analogy. Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help me From: agustri agustri@......... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:00:42 +0700 Hello, Tank's a lot for your attention with my problems The hardware configuration would be : 1. seismometer - signal conditioning - adc - PC industrial + hard disk -GPS. 2. solar panels - charging-12 VDC (battery)-PC (industrial) - etc. We have short period seismometers model SD-120 and signal conditioning produced by Katsujima co, ltd. We planned to use : 1. ADC type PCL 812 or PCL 818 etc from Advantech co.ltd or another ADC card. 2. PC industrial : type PCM -5862/ max. power requirements 7 A @ 5 V from Advantech co.ltd. or type PCM-5892 / power supply voltage + 5 V and typical power requirements : + 5 V @ 4.2 A from AAEON co. ltd. 3. GPS from where ? I don't know yet exactly. 4. My we are going to chance the signal conditioning. I would like to let me know your suggestion about hardware we have choosen or do you (psn-ers) have another idea. Using hardware mentioned above do you have an idea any compatible software for aquisitions and analysis. Best Regards, Agus Tri Sutanto, MGA, Indonesia Angel Rodriguez wrote: > Hello Agustri, > > Remote stations are always fun and challenging. In order to help you > better you need to give us a little more information. > > What kind of amplifiers are you going to use? > What kind of digitizers are you going to use? > What computer will read the digitizer and do the data logging? > > Does your data logger also do the amplification and digitizing? > > What are the voltage and current requirement for all the above in your > system? > > Many electronic boxes can also work with DC voltages, sometimes even > more efficiently. I have remote systems and systems the run off 12v, > you can do it! > > Please write with as much information as you can give us. > > Warmly, > > ángel > www.volcanbaru.com > > Sunday, May 27, 2001, 10:43:40 PM, you wrote: > > a> Help me, > a> We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this > a> seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. > a> My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we only > a> have 12 v dc > a> from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. > a> I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my > a> problems, Thankyou. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Burr-Brown ADS7807 A/D chips - help! From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 22:48:14 -0700 Hi Michael, I just received the 25 chips I ordered in November, last Friday. I have the 28 pin DIP version marked ADS7807P. Not sure what the B stands for on your part. I can sell you two of them if they are the right part. Since I wasn't sure I would ever get more parts I ended up modifying my board for a similar part made by Linear Technology, Analog Devices and don't hold your breath for parts Burr-Brown. The LT part number is LTC1605 (http://www.linear-tech.com/pdf/1605fa.pdf). This part only has parallel output. Regards, -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN > Hello Larry, > > I have just read your message on the PSN-L email list. > We have also been affected by the take-over of Burr Brown. > Did you have any luck in obtaining some of the A/D chips? > Do you have a source for the ADS7807PB chip as we are looking for two of > them to get us through until more stocks are brought into Australia? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Michael Lerch > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: help me From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 06:59:48 -0500 Hello Agus, I personally am not familiar with any of the equipment you mention. but for the moment lets just look at what the power requirements for a minute in light of a solar system. Let's pretend for a second that what you need is 12 volts @ 5 amps 24 hours a day. That would be 24 x 5 = 120 amp hours per day. I don't know what the weather is like where you live but often get runs of several days during the rainy season where we don't see the sun. So you need some reserve, let just say 3 bad light days, no charging to speak of and you have to do it all on batteries. You will better know how long the reserve needs to be. 120 x 3 = 360 amp hours In my opinion you would need at least 660 amp hour battery bank and more would be better. For the charging side if you need 120 amp/hrs/day and pretending can get 10 good charging hours per day you will need panels that can achieve 12 amps just to keep up. 10 hours of good charging are very hard to get every day and now and then you will need more just to maintain you system running and replace what you used up on a cloudy day. So double the panel so that you have a system that can charge 24 amp per hour, 10 hours per day. In my opinion this is a BIG solar system. In the US with batteries, cables, controllers, fuses and whatnot I would say 3000-5000 dollars. I just chose 12 v at 5 amps you have to do your real energy budget more carefully. If your installation is just a hobby and it needs to be solar and it is mostly for fun you might think of a laptop running one of David's boards. http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ If your installation is a professional one, how big is your budget? :-) Warmly, angel Tuesday, May 29, 2001, 11:00:42 PM, you wrote: a> Hello, a> Tank's a lot for your attention with my problems a> The hardware configuration would be : a> 1. seismometer - signal conditioning - adc - PC industrial + hard disk -GPS. a> 2. solar panels - charging-12 VDC (battery)-PC (industrial) - etc. a> We have short period seismometers model SD-120 and signal conditioning a> produced a> by Katsujima co, ltd. a> We planned to use : a> 1. ADC type PCL 812 or PCL 818 etc from Advantech co.ltd or another ADC a> card. a> 2. PC industrial : type PCM -5862/ max. power requirements 7 A @ 5 V a> from Advantech co.ltd. or type PCM-5892 / power supply voltage + 5 V a> and typical power requirements : + 5 V @ 4.2 A from AAEON co. ltd. a> 3. GPS from where ? I don't know yet exactly. a> 4. My we are going to chance the signal conditioning. a> I would like to let me know your suggestion about hardware we have a> choosen or do you (psn-ers) have another idea. Using hardware mentioned a> above do you have an idea any compatible software for aquisitions and a> analysis. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: phiank@................... Date: 30 May 2001 06:13:13 -0700 hello give me please !!! On Sun, 06 May 2001, "meredith lamb" wrote: > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > To: psn-l@.............. > Delivered-To: geophysicscorps.com%phiank@................... > X-Accept-Language: en > Received: from dnvrapanas86poolb104.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (65.100.177.104) > by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > from sys5.webtronics.com (216.100.224.130) > by smtp.c001.snv.cp.net (209.228.32.109) with SMTP; 5 May 2001 23:19:27 -0700 > from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (unverified [206.196.128.6]) by sys5.webtronics.com > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for ; > Sat, 5 May 2001 23:10:42 -0700 > (qmail 34333 invoked by uid 0); 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > from dnvrapanas86poolb104.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (65.100.177.104) > by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Length: 812 > X-Received: 6 May 2001 06:19:27 GMT > Subject: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) > From: "meredith lamb" > Return-Path: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Reply-To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 00:00:56 -0700 > Message-Id: <3AF4F6A8.A1AE1F82@.........> > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) > > Hi all, > > A note from Dennis Recla: > > I noticed that there was some renewed interest in seismic > analysis on the PSN email. If anyone wants to email me, so > I can reply to them, I'll send out the PDF file > (Adobe) of: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) prepared > by the Laramie Analysis Facility Personnel (April 1960). I > still have it on the computer here and can email it to anyone > who is interested. Its about 1.5meg in size. > > The email address is: recla@.......... > > Regards, Dennis Recla > > > Thanks Dennis, > Meredith Lamb > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:53:02 -0700 Thomas W Leiper wrote: "You could put a cheap linear filament bulb (like fish tank bulbs) inside a rotating can with a vertical slit (aligned with the bulb filament). Put one photocell close to the can for a reference signal. As the can rotates you get a timing pulse." My thoughts: On the surplus market, in the motors section of the various catalogs there are often motors with the multi-faceted mirror attached. These units have come out of laser scanner units. If you wanted to try Tom's method, I think it would be much simpler to start with one of these as they're balanced, and have good optical first surface mirrors. Personally I think it would be a difficult challenge to obtain satisfactory results for the following reason. Start with a reasonable rotation rate of 3600 rpm on the scanner motor. Assume that your optical path length is 10 ft long and that your detectors are 0.1 inch in dia. Your first number is the pulse width on the detector. 0.1 in / {10 ft * 12 in/ft * 2 * pi * (3600rpm/60 sec/min)} = pulse width in seconds = 2.210485320721E-6 Or about 2 us. You now need to resolve this to parts in 2^16. It's not going to happen. The fastest optical diodes available today are in the 10 GHz range which would only get you to 2^7 and those diodes and circuitry are not cheap -- they are state of the art. In fact, it would take a bit of doing to even see, much less decimate, the 2 us pulse with standard silicon solar cells. Some photo-diodes have responses beyond this region but you have left the easy designs and are starting to step into interesting territory. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help me From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:16:53 -0400 I found a SBC (Single Board Computer) you or others may be interested in. Here is the page link: http://www.web-tronics.com/penalsinboar.html It has built in vga, ethernet, 4 com ports, pentium1 processor (can buy with or without pentium chip). it runs off a single 5V supply. There are more as well. see http://www.web-tronics.com/industrial-computing-product.html and scroll down to the "PC/104 Single Board Computers 386-Pentium". ~Travis >Hello, > Tank's a lot for your attention with my problems >The hardware configuration would be : >1. seismometer - signal conditioning - adc - PC industrial + hard disk >-GPS. > >2. solar panels - charging-12 VDC (battery)-PC (industrial) - etc. > >We have short period seismometers model SD-120 and signal conditioning >produced >by Katsujima co, ltd. > >We planned to use : >1. ADC type PCL 812 or PCL 818 etc from Advantech co.ltd or another ADC >card. >2. PC industrial : type PCM -5862/ max. power requirements 7 A @ 5 V >from Advantech co.ltd. or type PCM-5892 / power supply voltage + 5 V >and typical power requirements : + 5 V @ 4.2 A from AAEON co. ltd. >3. GPS from where ? I don't know yet exactly. >4. My we are going to chance the signal conditioning. >I would like to let me know your suggestion about hardware we have >choosen or do you (psn-ers) have another idea. Using hardware mentioned >above do you have an idea any compatible software for aquisitions and >analysis. > >Best Regards, >Agus Tri Sutanto, >MGA, Indonesia > >Angel Rodriguez wrote: > > > Hello Agustri, > > > > Remote stations are always fun and challenging. In order to help you > > better you need to give us a little more information. > > > > What kind of amplifiers are you going to use? > > What kind of digitizers are you going to use? > > What computer will read the digitizer and do the data logging? > > > > Does your data logger also do the amplification and digitizing? > > > > What are the voltage and current requirement for all the above in your > > system? > > > > Many electronic boxes can also work with DC voltages, sometimes even > > more efficiently. I have remote systems and systems the run off 12v, > > you can do it! > > > > Please write with as much information as you can give us. > > > > Warmly, > > > > ángel > > www.volcanbaru.com > > > > Sunday, May 27, 2001, 10:43:40 PM, you wrote: > > > > a> Help me, > > a> We are going to build digital seismograph using data logger and this > > a> seismograph I'm going to operate in the remote site locations. > > a> My problems I don't have 110-220 vac in the site location but we only > > a> have 12 v dc > > a> from the battery ( + the solar panel) for supply the data logger. > > a> I will be thankful to you (psn-ers) if you have a sollutions on my > > a> problems, Thankyou. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Building Materials From: Casey Crane ogzax@........ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:31:22 -0700 Hi all, I don't have access to any metal working/milling machinery and was wondering if any has worked with say, Baltic birch and Derlin or PVC stock. I'm trying to design an SG type sensor with somthing other than plate aluminum. Are there any caveats with these materials ? Casey ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:05:36 -0600 LINEAR ARRAY CCD!!!!!! "Charles R. Patton" wrote: > Thomas W Leiper wrote: > "You could put a cheap linear filament bulb (like fish tank bulbs) > inside a rotating can with a vertical slit (aligned with the bulb > filament). Put one photocell close to the can for a reference signal. As > the can rotates you get a timing pulse." > > My thoughts: > On the surplus market, in the motors section of the various catalogs > there are often motors with the multi-faceted mirror attached. These > units have come out of laser scanner units. If you wanted to try Tom's > method, I think it would be much simpler to start with one of these as > they're balanced, and have good optical first surface mirrors. > Personally I think it would be a difficult challenge to obtain > satisfactory results for the following reason. Start with a reasonable > rotation rate of 3600 rpm on the scanner motor. Assume that your > optical path length is 10 ft long and that your detectors are 0.1 inch > in dia. Your first number is the pulse width on the detector. 0.1 in / > {10 ft * 12 in/ft * 2 * pi * (3600rpm/60 sec/min)} = pulse width in > seconds = 2.210485320721E-6 Or about 2 us. You now need to resolve > this to parts in 2^16. It's not going to happen. The fastest optical > diodes available today are in the 10 GHz range which would only get you > to 2^7 and those diodes and circuitry are not cheap -- they are state of > the art. In fact, it would take a bit of doing to even see, much less > decimate, the 2 us pulse with standard silicon solar cells. Some > photo-diodes have responses beyond this region but you have left the > easy designs and are starting to step into interesting territory. > > Regards, > Charles R. Patton > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Building Materials From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:25:37 EDT In a message dated 30/05/01, ogzax@........ writes: > I don't have access to any metal working/milling machinery > and was wondering if any has worked with say, Baltic birch and Derlin or > PVC stock. I'm trying to design an SG type sensor with somthing other > than plate aluminum. Are there any caveats with these materials ? > I think that you are unlikely to succeed with these materials due to temperature and humidity effects. You need a hacksaw, a ruler, a square, a scriber, a file and a drill with some bits, for working metal. You buy angle Al, cut it up into suitable lengths and bolt / stick it together. It is really not too difficult. Have a look at Frank Cooper's SG on http://freeweb.pdq.net/fxc/ Is that a particular step or part in the construction which is puzzling you? Best Wishes, Chris In a message dated 30/05/01, ogzax@........ writes:

I don' t have access to any metal working/milling machinery
and was wondering if any has worked with say, Baltic birch and Derlin or
PVC stock. I'm trying to design an SG type sensor with somthing other
than plate aluminum. Are there any caveats with these materials ?

      I think that you are unlikely to succeed with these materials due to
temperature and humidity effects. You need a hacksaw, a ruler, a square, a
scriber, a file and a drill with some bits, for working metal. You buy angle
Al, cut it up into suitable lengths and bolt / stick it together. It is
really not too difficult. Have a look at Frank Cooper's SG on
http://freeweb.pdq.net/fxc/ Is that a particular step or part in the
construction which is puzzling you?

      Best Wishes,

      Chris Subject: Re: Building Materials From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:23:47 -0600 Casey, Forget wood-not dimensionally stable Delrin is wonderful stuff-but not for a seismo frame Thick Aluminum is good. If can locate some Invar scraps, they are superb. Steel or Iron is not good if you are working with a magnet/coil setup for obvious reasons. All metals have a built-in noise effect (Brownian motion) and it fairly easy to build a seismo that is too sensitive, that is, one that can detect its' own metallic vibrations. This is basic problem with any object. A simple resistor by itself generates a small but real voltage just sitting there-depending on its' absolute temperature. There hobby machinists all over. Most are happy to help a fellow traveler seeking the truth. DL Casey Crane wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't have access to any metal working/milling machinery > and was wondering if any has worked with say, Baltic birch and Derlin or > PVC stock. I'm trying to design an SG type sensor with somthing other > than plate aluminum. Are there any caveats with these materials ? > > Casey > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:50:14 EDT In a message dated 30/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes: > LINEAR ARRAY CCD! > Dear Dave Latsch, You have our attention. Please tell us:- What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get in a single strip? Remembering that the movement of the arm on a Lehman may be less than 1/3,600 of a degree for the 6 sec background movements, how do you suggest we use these wonderful strips please? Regards, Chris In a message dated 30/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes:

LINEAR ARRAY CCD!

Dear Dave Latsch,

      You have our attention. Please tell us:-

     What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get
in a single strip?

      Remembering that the movement of the arm on a Lehman may be less than
1/3,600 of a degree for the 6 sec background movements, how do you suggest we
use these wonderful strips please?
    
      Regards,

      Chris
Subject: RE: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 19:32:22 -0700 yes moi aussi... -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of phiank@................... Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 6:13 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) hello give me please !!! On Sun, 06 May 2001, "meredith lamb" wrote: > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: psn-l-request@.............. > To: psn-l@.............. > Delivered-To: geophysicscorps.com%phiank@................... > X-Accept-Language: en > Received: from dnvrapanas86poolb104.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (65.100.177.104) > by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > from sys5.webtronics.com (216.100.224.130) > by smtp.c001.snv.cp.net (209.228.32.109) with SMTP; 5 May 2001 23:19:27 -0700 > from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (unverified [206.196.128.6]) by sys5.webtronics.com > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for ; > Sat, 5 May 2001 23:10:42 -0700 > (qmail 34333 invoked by uid 0); 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > from dnvrapanas86poolb104.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (65.100.177.104) > by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 May 2001 06:09:01 -0000 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Length: 812 > X-Received: 6 May 2001 06:19:27 GMT > Subject: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) > From: "meredith lamb" > Return-Path: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Reply-To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 00:00:56 -0700 > Message-Id: <3AF4F6A8.A1AE1F82@.........> > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) > > Hi all, > > A note from Dennis Recla: > > I noticed that there was some renewed interest in seismic > analysis on the PSN email. If anyone wants to email me, so > I can reply to them, I'll send out the PDF file > (Adobe) of: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) prepared > by the Laramie Analysis Facility Personnel (April 1960). I > still have it on the computer here and can email it to anyone > who is interested. Its about 1.5meg in size. > > The email address is: recla@.......... > > Regards, Dennis Recla > > > Thanks Dennis, > Meredith Lamb > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Jim Hannon jmhannon@........ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:41:18 -0500 Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD array, I know a bit about how they work. This web site http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors&cc=US&lc=en shows Kodaks offerings. There are up to 14000 pixels and the pixel spacing is around 5um. I would assume to uses this sort of sensor you would project the deflected light beam onto the sensor and use the pixel indicating the brightest light to indicated the position of the beam. It takes a lot of circuitry to clock the data out of the array and then you have to have some sort of circuit or computer software to sort out which pixel is the one the beam is on. since there are only a few thousand pixels you cannot get much resolution from your sensor. In the case of Kodaks biggest 14000 pixels less than 12 bits of resolution. This is truly a not so simple solution. Thanks, but I will stick with capacitive and inductive sensors. :) At 02:50 p.m. 30/05/01 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 30/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes: > >>LINEAR ARRAY CCD! > >Dear Dave Latsch, > > You have our attention. Please tell us:- > > What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get >in a single strip? > > Remembering that the movement of the arm on a Lehman may be less than >1/3,600 of a degree for the 6 sec background movements, how do you suggest we >use these wonderful strips please? > > Regards, > > Chris Jim Hannon http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/ 42,11.90N,91,39.26W WB0TXL __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: The Lahrs johnjan@........ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:22:05 -0600 There is no reason why the resolution could not be better, if one could resolve, say, the difference between the center of the beam being directly on a particular pixel, or some fraction of the way between two pixels. Just a thought. The proof will be in the seismogram produced! John At 05:41 AM 5/31/2001 , Jim H. wrote: > In the case of Kodaks biggest 14000 pixels less than 12 bits of > resolution. This is truly a not so simple solution. John C. Lahr 1925 Foothills Road Golden, CO 80402 Phone: (303) 215-9913 john@........ http://lahr.org/john-jan/science.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: jmhannon@........ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:19:44 -0500 (CDT) John, This is certanly true. In fact I know that I could design a system that would work this way. But now we are really not talking simple. Jim Hannon http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/ 42,11.90N,91,39.26W WB0TXL On Thu, 31 May 2001, The Lahrs wrote: > There is no reason why the resolution could not be better, if one could > resolve, > say, the difference between the center of the beam being directly on a > particular > pixel, or some fraction of the way between two pixels. > Just a thought. The proof will be in the seismogram produced! > John > > At 05:41 AM 5/31/2001 , Jim H. wrote: > > In the case of Kodaks biggest 14000 pixels less than 12 bits of > > resolution. This is truly a not so simple solution. > > John C. Lahr > 1925 Foothills Road > Golden, CO 80402 > Phone: (303) 215-9913 > john@........ > http://lahr.org/john-jan/science.html > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Optical levers/CCD arrays From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:32:44 -0600 Hi Jim et al, The test unit here will use 2 CCDs, one to record fine motion, say 10 or 12 bits of resolution. The second would be physically offset to read the "strong" motion now that the "fine" CCD has "saturated". Using a laser keeps the reflected beam from diverging very much in the small CCD physical offset distance. Yes, the incoming laser beam to the mirror needs to be very small, so some optics to collimate and perhaps a rectangular spatial filter might help. The real trick is glueing the two CCD signals together, but this could be accomplished in software. Needless to say, the seismo frame and the CCD head must be rigidly locked together and temp. stable. This is where my small stash of Invar metal comes in. And yes, all this is a major effort-but as Carole King sang "everything good in life you have to pay for". So with 2 10bit staggered CCD arrays, we have 20bits resolution, which not too bad! Having cobbled lots of logic circuits over the last 28 years, clocking and detecting which pixel is hot is not as bad as it sounds. DL Jim Hannon wrote: > Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD array, > I know a bit about how they work. This web site > http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors&cc=US&lc=en > shows Kodaks offerings. There are up to 14000 pixels and the pixel spacing > is around 5um. I would assume to uses this sort of sensor you would project > the deflected light beam onto the sensor and use the pixel indicating the > brightest light to indicated the position of the beam. It takes a lot of > circuitry to clock the data out of the array and then you have to have some > sort of circuit or computer software to sort out which pixel is the one the > beam is on. since there are only a few thousand pixels you cannot get much > resolution from your sensor. In the case of Kodaks biggest 14000 pixels > less than 12 bits of resolution. This is truly a not so simple solution. > Thanks, but I will stick with capacitive and inductive sensors. :) > > At 02:50 p.m. 30/05/01 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 30/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes: > > > >>LINEAR ARRAY CCD! > > > >Dear Dave Latsch, > > > > You have our attention. Please tell us:- > > > > What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get > >in a single strip? > > > > Remembering that the movement of the arm on a Lehman may be less than > >1/3,600 of a degree for the 6 sec background movements, how do you suggest we > >use these wonderful strips please? > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > Jim Hannon > http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/ > 42,11.90N,91,39.26W > WB0TXL > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.  
Hi Jim et al,

The test unit here will use 2 CCDs, one to record fine motion,
say 10 or 12 bits of resolution. The second would be physically
offset to read the "strong" motion now that the "fine" CCD has
"saturated". Using a laser keeps the reflected beam from diverging
very much in the small CCD physical offset distance. Yes, the incoming
laser beam to the mirror needs to be very small, so some optics to
collimate and perhaps a rectangular spatial filter might help. The real trick
is glueing the two CCD signals together, but this could be accomplished in
software. Needless to say, the seismo frame and the CCD head must be
rigidly locked together and temp. stable. This is where my small stash of
Invar metal comes in. And yes, all this is a major effort-but as Carole King sang
"everything good in life you have to pay for". So with 2 10bit staggered CCD arrays,
we have 20bits resolution, which not too bad! Having cobbled lots of logic
circuits over the last 28 years, clocking and detecting which pixel is hot  is not
as bad as it sounds.

DL
 
 

Jim Hannon wrote:

Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD array,
I know a bit about how they work. This web site
http://www.kodak.co m/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors&cc=US&lc=en
shows Kodaks offerings. There are up to 14000 pixels and the pixel spacing
is around 5um. I would assume to uses this sort of sensor you would project
the deflected light beam onto the sensor and use the pixel indicating the
brightest light to indicated the position of the beam. It takes a lot of
circuitry to clock the data out of the array and then you have to have some
sort of circuit or computer software to sort out which pixel is the one the
beam is on. since there are only a few thousand pixels you cannot get much
resolution from your sensor. In the case of Kodaks biggest 14000 pixels
less than 12 bits of resolution. This is truly a not so simple solution.
Thanks, but I will stick with capacitive and inductive sensors. :)

At 02:50 p.m. 30/05/01 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 30/05/01, blottobear@.......... writes:
>
>>LINEAR ARRAY CCD!
>
>Dear Dave Latsch,
>
>       You have our attention. Please tell us:-
>
>      What are the physical sizes of the CCD pixels and how many can you get
>in a single strip?
>
>       Remembering that the movement of the arm on a Lehman may be less than
>1/3,600 of a degree for the 6 sec background movements, how do you suggest we
>use these wonderful strips please?
>
>       Regards,
>
>       Chris

Jim Hannon
http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/
42,11.90N,91,39.26W
WB0TXL

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:38:29 EDT In a message dated 31/05/01, jmhannon@........ writes: > Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD array, I > know a bit about how they work. This web site > > > > > > http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors > &cc=US&lc=en > shows Kodak offerings. Dear Jim Hannon, Thank you for the reference. I note that the KLI-8811 has 8,800 pixels 7 x 7 microns and is a single row of cells. This might give ~ +/-12 bit accuracy (4096) about the centre zero. The problem that is still puzzling me is how to use this clever device to measure small enough angles and how to keep it stable? The movement due to the six second seismic background is of the order of 1 to 5 microns and you would normally set your A/D to give >128 counts for this. Assuming that you had a small Lehman with a 1 ft beam, you need an angular gain of x560 to get one pixel to represent 1 count. A 260 ft optical lever which focussed to a spot of 7 microns might be a bit impractical. I suppose that you could use two surface silvered optically flat mirror bars and reflect the light 9 times, but I suspect that you would need a very expensive laser. The small solid state lasers don't seem to give well enough defined or focussed beams. Getting such a device designed, set up, aligned and stable sounds like the sort of task that I would prefer to leave to others. How do you plan to do it Dave? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 31/05/01, jmhannon@........ writes:

Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD array, I
know a bit about how they work. This web site





http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors
&cc=US&lc=en
shows Kodak offerings.


Dear Jim Hannon,

      Thank you for the reference. I note that the KLI-8811 has 8,800 pixels
7 x 7 microns and is a single row of cells. This might give ~ +/-12 bit
accuracy (4096) about the centre zero. The problem that is still puzzling me
is how to use this clever device to measure small enough angles and how to
keep it stable? The movement due to the six second seismic background is of
the order of 1 to 5 microns and you would normally set your A/D to give >128
counts for this.

      Assuming that you had a small Lehman with a 1 ft beam, you need an
angular gain of x560 to get one pixel to represent 1 count. A 260 ft optical
lever which focussed to a spot of 7 microns might be a bit impractical. I
suppose that you could use two surface silvered optically flat mirror bars
and reflect the light 9 times, but I suspect that you would need a very
expensive laser. The small solid state lasers  don't seem to give well enough
defined or focussed beams. Getting such a device designed, set up, aligned
and stable sounds like the sort of task that I would prefer to leave to
others. How do you plan to do it Dave?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ian ian@........... Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:48:36 -1000 I've not followed this thread in detail so sorry if I'm repeating anything... About 8 years ago I was using a position measuring device made by Melles Griot. It used 4 photocells and calculated the centroid of the incident beam. It had an accuaracy of a few microns and cost a few thousand $. The point being that it only used a few cells and centroided to calculate the position of the beam Technology moves on, but it looks like they still make a similar product. See http://www.mellesgriot.com/pdf/0048.9-48.10.pdf Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:38:03 +1200 This brings to mind the Centronics QD7-5 quadrant photodetector that http://www.rs-components.com sell as part number 652-027. This is a windowed hermetic TO5 package with foursensor elements arranged as quadrants. It seems rather well suited to measuring very small angular defelections in one or two dimensions when illuminated by a cheap diode laser. Sadly the detector itself is not cheap. have fun folks Mark __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Building Materials From: barry lotz gbl@....... Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:25:24 -0700 Chris > clip.....You need a hacksaw, a ruler, a square, a > scriber, a file and a drill with some bits, for working metal. .... I also use a couple of select taps like 4-40 and 6-32. Aluminum is quite nice to work with and requires minimal tools, as described above. I bought a bench drill, drill bits .. all above for less than $100 as say Harbor Tools. I get my aluminium from a surplus outlet store. I save all the redo's and screw- ups . They sometimes are just right for a future idea. Regards Barry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "George Harris" gjharris@............. Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:24:02 -0700 Chris, Jim, and other photoptical gadgeteers. To make a small spot at the end of a long throw beam is very difficult. = To a first order, the F number of the beam has to be approximately the same as the spot size. Thus to = get a 5 micron spot takes an F:5 beam. That is, the diameter of the focusing optic must be 1/5 of = the beam throw and a very special lens to get the required resolution. To use a CCD in a practical way, the following is possible: Take a simple hend held beam projector and use the lens from another one = to refocus the beam. As may be understood, the source in a laser diode is extremely small in = one direction (it is the same direction in which the beam is large when projected). If another = identical lens is placed in front of the projector, the resulting image (which will be about 1/8 = inch away) will be similar to that which was originally on the face of the laser chip. =20 This would mean that either the CCD, or the laser projector would need = to be on the moving element. If you start with only a laser diode, larger lenses could be used so = that a mirror could be inserted in the beam and have only the mirror moving. The f:number relationships = mentioned above are still important for a small spot. =20 I'd be glad to to try answer any questions regarding such systems by = e-mail or phone. They take care in design and choice of compoonents. I = have a couple separate laser diode collimating lenses which=20 could be made available after I confirm that they will not be wasted. = They are very small with very short focal lengths. George Harris gjharris@............. 707-751-1936 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? In a message dated 31/05/01, jmhannon@........ writes:=20 Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a linerar CCD = array, I=20 know a bit about how they work. This web site=20 = http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=3DKODAK+KLI+Series+Ima= ge+Sensors=20 &cc=3DUS&lc=3Den=20 shows Kodak offerings.=20 Dear Jim Hannon,=20 Thank you for the reference. I note that the KLI-8811 has 8,800 = pixels=20 7 x 7 microns and is a single row of cells. This might give ~ +/-12 = bit=20 accuracy (4096) about the centre zero. The problem that is still = puzzling me=20 is how to use this clever device to measure small enough angles and = how to=20 keep it stable? The movement due to the six second seismic background = is of=20 the order of 1 to 5 microns and you would normally set your A/D to = give >128=20 counts for this.=20 Assuming that you had a small Lehman with a 1 ft beam, you need = an=20 angular gain of x560 to get one pixel to represent 1 count. A 260 ft = optical=20 lever which focussed to a spot of 7 microns might be a bit = impractical. I=20 suppose that you could use two surface silvered optically flat mirror = bars=20 and reflect the light 9 times, but I suspect that you would need a = very=20 expensive laser. The small solid state lasers don't seem to give well = enough=20 defined or focussed beams. Getting such a device designed, set up, = aligned=20 and stable sounds like the sort of task that I would prefer to leave = to=20 others. How do you plan to do it Dave?=20 Regards,=20 Chris Chapman=20
Chris, Jim, and other photoptical=20 gadgeteers.
 
To make a small spot at the end of a = long throw=20 beam is very difficult.  To a first order, the F = number
of the beam has to be approximately the = same as=20 the spot size.  Thus to get a 5 micron spot takes
an F:5 beam.  That is, the = diameter of the=20 focusing optic must be 1/5 of the beam throw and a very special lens to = get the=20 required resolution.
 
To use a CCD in a practical way, the = following is=20 possible:
Take a simple hend held beam projector = and use the=20 lens from another one to refocus the beam.
As may be understood, the source in a = laser diode=20 is extremely small in one direction (it is the
same direction in which the beam is = large when=20 projected).  If another identical lens is placed
in front of the projector, the = resulting image=20 (which will be about 1/8 inch away) will be similar
to that which was originally on the = face of the=20 laser chip. 
 
This would mean that either the CCD, or = the laser=20 projector would need to be on the moving element.
If you start with only a laser diode, = larger lenses=20 could be used so that a mirror could be inserted
in the beam and have only the mirror = moving. =20 The f:number relationships mentioned above are
still important for a small spot.  =
 
I'd be glad to to try answer any = questions=20 regarding such systems by e-mail or phone.  They take care in = design and choice of compoonents.  I have = a couple=20 separate laser diode collimating lenses which
could be made available after I confirm = that they=20 will not be wasted.  They are very small with very
short focal lengths.
 
George Harris
gjharris@.............<= /DIV>
707-751-1936
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 = 5:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: Not so simple=20 photoelectrics, or are they?

In a = message dated=20 31/05/01, jmhannon@........ = writes:=20

Having looked into building a spectrophotometer using a = linerar=20 CCD array, I
know a bit about how they work. This web site=20





http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=3D= KODAK+KLI+Series+Image+Sensors=20
&cc=3DUS&lc=3Den
shows Kodak offerings.

Dear Jim Hannon,=20

      Thank you for the = reference. I=20 note that the KLI-8811 has 8,800 pixels
7 x 7 microns and is a = single row=20 of cells. This might give ~ +/-12 bit
accuracy (4096) about the = centre=20 zero. The problem that is still puzzling me
is how to use this = clever=20 device to measure small enough angles and how to
keep it stable? = The=20 movement due to the six second seismic background is of
the order = of 1 to=20 5 microns and you would normally set your A/D to give >128 =
counts for=20 this.

      Assuming that you = had a=20 small Lehman with a 1 ft beam, you need an
angular gain of x560 to = get one=20 pixel to represent 1 count. A 260 ft optical
lever which focussed = to a=20 spot of 7 microns might be a bit impractical. I
suppose that you = could use=20 two surface silvered optically flat mirror bars
and reflect the = light 9=20 times, but I suspect that you would need a very
expensive laser. = The small=20 solid state lasers  don't seem to give well enough
defined or = focussed beams. Getting such a device designed, set up, aligned =
and stable=20 sounds like the sort of task that I would prefer to leave to =
others. How=20 do you plan to do it Dave?=20

      Regards,=20

      Chris Chapman=20
Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "George Harris" gjharris@............. Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:30:11 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Robinson To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? > This brings to mind the Centronics QD7-5 quadrant photodetector that > http://www.rs-components.com sell as part number 652-027. > > This is a windowed hermetic TO5 package with foursensor elements > arranged as quadrants. It seems rather well suited to measuring very > small angular defelections in one or two dimensions when illuminated by > a cheap diode laser. Sadly the detector itself is not cheap. > > have fun folks > > Mark This can be replaced by two solar cells plus either a small incandescent or laser diode projected through a hole which covers half of each cell at a cost of about $5. George Harris > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Mark Robinson other@............... Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:16:45 +1200 >> This brings to mind the Centronics QD7-5 quadrant photodetector that >> http://www.rs-components.com sell as part number 652-027. >> >> This is a windowed hermetic TO5 package with foursensor elements >> arranged as quadrants. It seems rather well suited to measuring very >> small angular defelections in one or two dimensions when illuminated by >> a cheap diode laser. Sadly the detector itself is not cheap. >> >> have fun folks >> >> Mark > >This can be replaced by two solar cells plus either a small incandescent or >laser diode >projected through a hole which covers half of each cell at a cost of about >$5. The particular advantage of this part is that the two differential elements are separated by a submillimetric distance allowing much higher resolution. Also, making a small spot at the end of a long throw beam is really easy if you put a short focal length lens at approximately it's focal lens over the detector. regards Mark __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Thomas Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Not sure you get it, Charlie. You don't have to resolve the pulse width, only the timing of the relationship between the reference pulse and the detector pulse. And as long as you dgtect at the same point for each cell most of the time, you should be OK. It doesn't matter (really) how sharply defined the pulse is, even, as long as it is detected consistently. And even if not so consistent, the sample rate of 60 samples per minute should avaerage out the noise and allow precise timing. ------Original Message------ From: "Charles R. Patton" To: psn-l@.............. Sent: May 30, 2001 4:53:02 PM GMT Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? Thomas W Leiper wrote: "You could put a cheap linear filament bulb (like fish tank bulbs) inside a rotating can with a vertical slit (aligned with the bulb filament). Put one photocell close to the can for a reference signal. As the can rotates you get a timing pulse." My thoughts: On the surplus market, in the motors section of the various catalogs there are often motors with the multi-faceted mirror attached. These units have come out of laser scanner units. If you wanted to try Tom's method, I think it would be much simpler to start with one of these as they're balanced, and have good optical first surface mirrors. Personally I think it would be a difficult challenge to obtain satisfactory results for the following reason. Start with a reasonable rotation rate of 3600 rpm on the scanner motor. Assume that your optical path length is 10 ft long and that your detectors are 0.1 inch in dia. Your first number is the pulse width on the detector. 0.1 in / {10 ft * 12 in/ft * 2 * pi * (3600rpm/60 sec/min)} = pulse width in seconds = 2.210485320721E-6 Or about 2 us. You now need to resolve this to parts in 2^16. It's not going to happen. The fastest optical diodes available today are in the 10 GHz range which would only get you to 2^7 and those diodes and circuitry are not cheap -- they are state of the art. In fact, it would take a bit of doing to even see, much less decimate, the 2 us pulse with standard silicon solar cells. Some photo-diodes have responses beyond this region but you have left the easy designs and are starting to step into interesting territory. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:45:55 EDT In a message dated 30/05/01, twleiper@........ writes: > The method I speculated earlier today was off the top of my head. But it > does make sense to see if the numbers agree with my instinct. A modest > attempt follows: > > It seems reasonable that the "angular amplifier" I described using two > opposed mirrors that move slightly off parallel should work and, if you > were spinning the slit > at around 30 revs per second any noise and instability would be effectively > averaged out for any but the shortest period instruments. And, depending > upon how many times you bounce the path between the mirrors it seems > reasonable > that you should get a amplification of angular displacement of the boom by > at least an order of magnitude, meaning that the .01 arc/sec requirement > becomes .1 arc/sec. This could also be expressed as about 1/200,000 of a > revolution and > would occur in about 160 nanoseconds in the 30 RPS example. Detecting phase > shifts in 160 ns chunks is a piece of cake, in fact you could probably go > Dear Tom, I see the argument, but 1 arc second is 1/60*60*360 of a revolution - 1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec represents ~2.6 nano sec, doesn't it? You also need the size of the detector to be roughly comparable, so we need a very tiny sharp edged photo detector which is extremely fast - you have to physically scan the beam across at least part of the detector. While you can get 0.5 sq mm diodes with a 1 n sec response, isn't scanning an edge across the device likely to just see a diffraction pattern and hence be limited by wavelength considerations, even if you could do the timing? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 30/05/01, twleiper@........ writes:

The me thod I speculated earlier today was off the top of my head. But it
does make sense to see if the numbers agree with my instinct. A modest
attempt follows:

It seems reasonable that the "angular amplifier" I described using two
opposed mirrors that move slightly off parallel should work and, if you
were spinning the slit
at around 30 revs per second any noise and instability would be effectively
averaged out for any but the shortest period instruments. And, depending
upon how many times you bounce the path between the mirrors it seems
reasonable
that you should get a amplification of angular displacement of the boom by
at least an order of magnitude, meaning that the .01 arc/sec requirement
becomes .1 arc/sec. This could also be expressed as about 1/200,000 of a
revolution and
would occur in about 160 nanoseconds in the 30 RPS example. Detecting phase
shifts in 160 ns chunks is a piece of cake, in fact you could probably go
down another order of magnitude.


Dear Tom,
      I see the argument, but 1 arc second is 1/60*60*360 of a revolution -
1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec represents ~2.6 nano sec, doesn't it?  
You also need the size of the detector to be roughly comparable, so we need a
very tiny sharp edged photo detector which is extremely fast - you have to
physically scan the beam across at least part of the detector. While you can
get 0.5 sq mm diodes with a 1 n sec response, isn't scanning an edge across
the device likely to just see a diffraction pattern and hence be limited by
wavelength considerations, even if you could do the timing?
      Regards,
      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:44:42 -0700 Thomas Leiper wrote: > = > Not sure you get it, Charlie. You don't have to > resolve the pulse width, only the timing of the > relationship between the reference pulse and the > detector pulse. = Tom, I did make a mistake in my math by thinking in magnitudes rather than powers of two. But the point I was trying to make has just been made very well by Chris Chapman who has just posted, "... 1 arc second is 1/60*60*360 of a revolution - 1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec represents ~2.6 nano sec=85" His observation about diffraction errors is= probably quite accurate. Although parts are available at 300 MHz, they generally cannot be used with simple perf board techniques. They require ground plane techniques and careful attention to lead lengths and so forth - not a construction area kind to the beginner. = And as Chris's post and other posts have mentioned, it still doesn't solve the need for a small dot in order to get that 2.6 ns edge. Other factors are the speed and position variations one will find in the scanner mechanism. One can expect at best perhaps random 5 uin position errors at the motor mirror if the best bearings are used (not likely), and more likely much worse due to imperfections in the ball bearings. = Those errors can be overcome with hydrostatic bearings, but you just left the few dollars territory and headed into kilobuck land. Some of these position errors will translate as angle errors and thereby timing that is somewhat random with respect to the timing photodiode. = Additionally there will be speed variations greater than and perhaps much greater than 10 us per revolution. Some of it will be cancelled by the timing pulse, but unless the timing pulse and the measurement pulse are co-located, there will be that inaccuracy to add in. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Winquake P & S From: ian ian@........... Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 11:12:45 -1000 Hi, I've just started using Winquake and submitting quakes. I notice that in some of my submissions, the P & S markers, in the Gifs, have moved. Indeed the last one I submitted, http://psn.quake.net/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0106/010601a.hl0 , they have moved so far to the left that they aren't visible. Could someone explain this? Thanks Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Winquake P & S From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 22:20:22 Ian Try clicking the "SAVE PS PICKS" button, the 5th from the left. Then save your file. After the save, I suggest reloading the file. That should work. Wayne > >Hi, > >I've just started using Winquake and submitting quakes. I notice that in >some of my submissions, the P & S markers, in the Gifs, have moved. Indeed >the last one I submitted, >http://psn.quake.net/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0106/010601a.hl0 , they >have moved so far to the left that they aren't visible. > >Could someone explain this? > >Thanks > >Ian Smith > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Smt8/Vrdt From: barry lotz gbl@....... Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 19:57:45 -0700 Sean Thomas et al I switched over one Smt8 style sensor from Lvdt to Vrdt and incorporated a zeroing motor. I calibrated the vrdt and it was very linear. The sensor oscillates well without the Vrdt, so I know the spring is ok. My problem is when I put the metal strip between the vrdt coils the sensor won't center. It goes from one end to the other, no matter how slowly I try to center it. I took the feedback coil out of the loop during this adjustment. I thought the vrdt was magnitized so I touched the laminates and center strip with a soldering iron... no different. Any help? Btw.. when I put the feedback coil in the circuitry the sensor oscillates around the center position then gradually stops and slowly drifts to one end Regards Barry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: Thomas Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Yeah, I must have missed an order of magnitude in my mental guestimation as well, because 2.6 ns is out of the question. So it's back to the old coil. I wouldn't have wasted my time anyway. I suppose you could just slow down your sample rate, but then you would have the flutter factor to deal with. There must be SOME extremely complicated way we can replace the magnet and coil that work so well. How about a force-balance scheme where we just use some silver (or gold) contacts and keep them barely touching by PW modulating the coil with a high frequency square wave... Tom ------Original Message------ From: "Charles R. Patton" To: psn-l@.............. Sent: June 1, 2001 8:44:42 PM GMT Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? Thomas Leiper wrote: >=20 > Not sure you get it, Charlie. You don't have to > resolve the pulse width, only the timing of the > relationship between the reference pulse and the > detector pulse.=20 Tom, I did make a mistake in my math by thinking in magnitudes rather than powers of two. But the point I was trying to make has just been made very well by Chris Chapman who has just posted, "... 1 arc second is 1/60*60*360 of a revolution - 1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec represents ~2.6 nano sec=85" His observation about diffraction errors is probably quite accurate. Although parts are available at 300 MHz, they generally cannot be used with simple perf board techniques. They require ground plane techniques and careful attention to lead lengths and so forth - not a construction area kind to the beginner. =20 And as Chris's post and other posts have mentioned, it still doesn't solve the need for a small dot in order to get that 2.6 ns edge. Other factors are the speed and position variations one will find in the scanner mechanism. One can expect at best perhaps random 5 uin position errors at the motor mirror if the best bearings are used (not likely), and more likely much worse due to imperfections in the ball bearings.=20 Those errors can be overcome with hydrostatic bearings, but you just left the few dollars territory and headed into kilobuck land. Some of these position errors will translate as angle errors and thereby timing that is somewhat random with respect to the timing photodiode.=20 Additionally there will be speed variations greater than and perhaps much greater than 10 us per revolution. Some of it will be cancelled by the timing pulse, but unless the timing pulse and the measurement pulse are co-located, there will be that inaccuracy to add in. Regards, Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:36:28 -0600 Greetings all: I am used to dealing with teraohms, femtowatts, and picoseconds(much less nanoseconds) in my long and illustrious dealings with those magical electrons-but how did an analog signal with<10hz or so of bandwidth get involved with those fleeting nanoseconds? I must have been taking one of my catnaps or something. The antique seismos used a moving mirror and an INCOHERENT light source and wrote on a rotating drum located in a small vault-not hundreds of feet away! The trace on the film was 1-2 inches or so for a typical (M7-9) large quake. I think Sean-Thomas may have one of these puppies stashed in the basement at SLU. Yea, I sing the praises of the CCD, for it will set you free!! Vaya con Dios, DL Thomas Leiper wrote: > Yeah, I must have missed an order of magnitude in my mental > guestimation as well, because 2.6 ns is out of the question. > So it's back to the old coil. I wouldn't have wasted my time > anyway. I suppose you could just slow down your sample rate, but > then you would have the flutter factor to deal with. There must > be SOME extremely complicated way we can replace the magnet and > coil that work so well. How about a force-balance scheme where > we just use some silver (or gold) contacts and keep them barely > touching by PW modulating the coil with a high frequency square wave... > > Tom > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Charles R. Patton" > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: June 1, 2001 8:44:42 PM GMT > Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? > > Thomas Leiper wrote: > > > > Not sure you get it, Charlie. You don't have to > > resolve the pulse width, only the timing of the > > relationship between the reference pulse and the > > detector pulse. > > Tom, > > I did make a mistake in my math by thinking in magnitudes rather than > powers of two. But the point I was trying to make has just been made > very well by Chris Chapman who has just posted, "... 1 arc second is > 1/60*60*360 of a revolution - 1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec > represents ~2.6 nano sec…" His observation about diffraction errors is > probably quite accurate. > > Although parts are available at 300 MHz, they generally cannot be used > with simple perf board techniques. They require ground plane techniques > and careful attention to lead lengths and so forth - not a construction > area kind to the beginner. > > And as Chris's post and other posts have mentioned, it still doesn't > solve the need for a small dot in order to get that 2.6 ns edge. Other > factors are the speed and position variations one will find in the > scanner mechanism. One can expect at best perhaps random 5 uin position > errors at the motor mirror if the best bearings are used (not likely), > and more likely much worse due to imperfections in the ball bearings. > Those errors can be overcome with hydrostatic bearings, but you just > left the few dollars territory and headed into kilobuck land. Some of > these position errors will translate as angle errors and thereby timing > that is somewhat random with respect to the timing photodiode. > Additionally there will be speed variations greater than and perhaps > much greater than 10 us per revolution. Some of it will be cancelled by > the timing pulse, but unless the timing pulse and the measurement pulse > are co-located, there will be that inaccuracy to add in. > > Regards, > Charles R. Patton > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 00:10:59 -0600 Tom et al: Just did a search on "optical lever" and found a goldmine of info. One good one--- http://physics.mercer.edu/petepag/tiltm.html DL Thomas Leiper wrote: > Yeah, I must have missed an order of magnitude in my mental > guestimation as well, because 2.6 ns is out of the question. > So it's back to the old coil. I wouldn't have wasted my time > anyway. I suppose you could just slow down your sample rate, but > then you would have the flutter factor to deal with. There must > be SOME extremely complicated way we can replace the magnet and > coil that work so well. How about a force-balance scheme where > we just use some silver (or gold) contacts and keep them barely > touching by PW modulating the coil with a high frequency square wave... > > Tom > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Charles R. Patton" > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: June 1, 2001 8:44:42 PM GMT > Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? > > Thomas Leiper wrote: > > > > Not sure you get it, Charlie. You don't have to > > resolve the pulse width, only the timing of the > > relationship between the reference pulse and the > > detector pulse. > > Tom, > > I did make a mistake in my math by thinking in magnitudes rather than > powers of two. But the point I was trying to make has just been made > very well by Chris Chapman who has just posted, "... 1 arc second is > 1/60*60*360 of a revolution - 1/1,296,000, so at 30 RPS, 0.1 arc sec > represents ~2.6 nano sec…" His observation about diffraction errors is > probably quite accurate. > > Although parts are available at 300 MHz, they generally cannot be used > with simple perf board techniques. They require ground plane techniques > and careful attention to lead lengths and so forth - not a construction > area kind to the beginner. > > And as Chris's post and other posts have mentioned, it still doesn't > solve the need for a small dot in order to get that 2.6 ns edge. Other > factors are the speed and position variations one will find in the > scanner mechanism. One can expect at best perhaps random 5 uin position > errors at the motor mirror if the best bearings are used (not likely), > and more likely much worse due to imperfections in the ball bearings. > Those errors can be overcome with hydrostatic bearings, but you just > left the few dollars territory and headed into kilobuck land. Some of > these position errors will translate as angle errors and thereby timing > that is somewhat random with respect to the timing photodiode. > Additionally there will be speed variations greater than and perhaps > much greater than 10 us per revolution. Some of it will be cancelled by > the timing pulse, but unless the timing pulse and the measurement pulse > are co-located, there will be that inaccuracy to add in. > > Regards, > Charles R. Patton > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 08:04:22 EDT In a message dated 03/06/01, blottobear@.......... writes: > I am used to dealing with teraohms, femtowatts, and picoseconds in my long > and > illustrious dealings with those magical electrons - but how did an analog > signal with <10hz or so of bandwidth get involved with those fleeting > It is the bandwidth of the seismometer signal that we want to record... > The antique seismos used a moving mirror and an INCOHERENT light source and > wrote on a rotating drum located in a small vault-not hundreds of feet > away! The trace on the film was 1-2 inches or so for a typical (M7-9) large > quake. > Dear Dave, The antique seismometers used a large coil to generate a signal which was then input into a sensitive galvanometer. A mirror on the galvo coil reflected a beam of light. You could read that out with a CCD, but there is currently more interest in wide band instruments with direct readouts. A reluctance bridge or a LVDT do this very nicely, thank you. So do tell us just how you plan to set us free with CCD?! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 03/06/01, blottobear@.......... writes:

I am u sed to dealing with teraohms, femtowatts, and picoseconds in my long
and
illustrious dealings with those magical electrons - but how did an analog
signal with <10hz or so of bandwidth get involved with those fleeting
nanoseconds?


      It is the bandwidth of the seismometer signal that we want to record...

The an tique seismos used a moving mirror and an INCOHERENT light source and
wrote on a rotating drum located in a small vault-not hundreds of feet
away! The trace on the film was 1-2 inches or so for a typical (M7-9) large
quake.
Yea, I sing the praises of the CCD, for it will set you free!!


Dear Dave,

      The antique seismometers used a large coil to generate a signal which
was then input into a sensitive galvanometer. A mirror on the galvo coil
reflected a beam of light. You could read that out with a CCD, but there is
currently more interest in wide band instruments with direct readouts. A
reluctance bridge or a LVDT do this very nicely, thank you. So do tell us
just how you plan to set us free with CCD?!

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Not so simple photoelectrics, or are they? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 08:43:36 -0600 Hello all, Please explain what a "wide-band" seismo is. Is it 20Hz? 100Hz? I still don't see where there a necessity to resolve time intervals of tens of nanoseconds..... Analog sensors such as LVDTs do work well, but it is extremely difficult to get one with 15-20 bits of resolution. Look at your analog seismo signal amplifier's output with the seismo locked at zero mechanically. Use a decent o'scope aand compare your normal full-scale voltage with what is there at rest. If it were 1 volt FS and you saw 2 millivolts of combined noise, then it will be nearly impossible to resolve better than 2 parts out of 1000, which is just under 9 bits of resolution. This is a major limiting factor in analog circuitry. All the CCD does is get you directly from seismic mass motion to a digital word representing the DISPLACEMENT from rest of the mass, as opposed to the coil/magnet approach whose response is a function of the VELOCITY of the mass, not its' absolute mechanical displacement. The digital count value is all but noise immune, so the CCD resolution is really there and not lost in low-level amplifier noise. You also no longer need any A/D converter chip to get the displacement signal into a PC-it is already in binary form. No matter how good a seismo you have, there is a limit to real resolution and dynamic range using simlpe analog circuits. Not impossible, but extremely difficult and expensive. The CCD approach was offered only as food for thought, not to imply that we should all toss out our analog stuff. I would never want to see that happen................... DL ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 03/06/01, blottobear@.......... writes: > > > >> I am used to dealing with teraohms, femtowatts, and >> picoseconds in my long >> and >> illustrious dealings with those magical electrons - but >> how did an analog >> signal with <10hz or so of bandwidth get involved with >> those fleeting >> nanoseconds? > > It is the bandwidth of the seismometer signal that > we want to record... > > >> The antique seismos used a moving mirror and an >> INCOHERENT light source and >> wrote on a rotating drum located in a small vault-not >> hundreds of feet >> away! The trace on the film was 1-2 inches or so for a >> typical (M7-9) large >> quake. >> Yea, I sing the praises of the CCD, for it will set you >> free!! > > Dear Dave, > > The antique seismometers used a large coil to > generate a signal which > was then input into a sensitive galvanometer. A mirror on > the galvo coil > reflected a beam of light. You could read that out with a > CCD, but there is > currently more interest in wide band instruments with > direct readouts. A > reluctance bridge or a LVDT do this very nicely, thank > you. So do tell us > just how you plan to set us free with CCD?! > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman Hello all,

Please explain what a "wide-band" seismo is. Is it 20Hz?
100Hz? I still don't see where there a necessity to resolve
time intervals of tens of nanoseconds..... Analog sensors
such as LVDTs do work well, but it is extremely difficult to
get one with 15-20 bits of resolution.  Look at your analog seismo
signal amplifier's output with the seismo locked  at  zero
mechanically. Use a decent o'scope aand compare your normal
full-scale voltage with what is there at rest.  If it were 1 volt FS and
you saw 2 millivolts of combined noise, then it will be nearly
impossible to resolve better than 2  parts out of 1000, which
is  just under 9 bits of resolution. This is a major limiting factor
in analog circuitry.  All the CCD does is get you directly from
seismic mass motion to a digital word representing the
DISPLACEMENT from rest of the mass, as opposed to the
coil/magnet approach whose response  is a function of
the VELOCITY of the mass, not its' absolute mechanical
displacement. The digital count value is all but noise
immune, so the CCD resolution is really there and not lost
in low-level amplifier noise. You also no longer need any A/D converter
chip to get the displacement signal into a PC-it is already in
binary form.
No matter how good a seismo you have, there is a limit
to real resolution and dynamic range using simlpe analog
circuits. Not impossible, but extremely difficult and expensive.
The CCD approach was offered only as food for thought, not
to imply that we should all toss out  our analog stuff. I would
never want to see that happen...................

DL
 

ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote:

In a message dated 03/06/01, blottobear@.......... writes:
 
I am used to dealing with teraohms, femtowatts, and picoseconds in my long
and
illustrious dealings with those magical electrons - but how did an analog
signal with <10hz or so of bandwidth get involved with those fleeting
nanoseconds?

      It is the bandwidth of the seismometer signal that we want to record...
 

The antique seismos used a moving mirror and an INCOHERENT light source and
wrote on a rotating drum located in a small vault-not hundreds of feet
away! The trace on the film was 1-2 inches or so for a typical (M7-9) large
quake.
Yea, I sing the praises of the CCD, for it will set you free!!

Dear Dave,

      The antique seismometers used a large coil to generate a signal which
was then input into a sensitive galvanometer. A mirror on the galvo coil
reflected a beam of light. You could read that out with a CCD, but there is
currently more interest in wide band instruments with direct readouts. A
reluctance bridge or a LVDT do this very nicely, thank you. So do tell us
just how you plan to set us free with CCD?!

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Seismogram Analysis (Training Outline) From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:32:04 Hello All I received a copy of the Seismogram Analysis Training Online file from Dennis and placed a copy on my website. I have not yet added links to the document but you may access it directly at: http://dominicapsn.freeyellow.com/Documents/Analysis.PDF Wayne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Roger Baker address? From: "Jack Sandgathe" jacksand@............... Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:05:47 -0700 I've tried to send mail to Roger Baker from (Austin?) TX. The = address I have from his previous traffic is rcbaker@.............. but had it = returned as undeliverable. Do you happen to know Roger or any way I can = obtain his correct e-mail address?
     I've tried to send mail to Roger Baker = from=20 (Austin?) TX.  The address I
  have from his previous = traffic is=20 rcbaker@............., but=20 had it returned as undeliverable.  Do you happen to know Roger or = any way I=20 can obtain his correct e-mail = address?
Subject: Re: Roger Baker address? From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@......... Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:15:35 -0700 Try: rcbaker@........ Jack Sandgathe wrote: > I've tried to send mail to Roger Baker from (Austin?) TX. The > address I > have from his previous traffic is rcbaker@.............. but had it > returned as undeliverable. Do you happen to know Roger or any way I > can obtain his correct e-mail address? Try:   rcbaker@........
 

Jack Sandgathe wrote:

     I've tried to send mail to Roger Baker from (Austin?) TX.  The address I
  have from his previous traffic is rcbaker@............., but had it returned as undeliverable.  Do you happen to know Roger or any way I can obtain his correct e-mail address?
Subject: Fwd: Int. Conference on Seismic Risk Reduction From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:51:11 Hello all Here is an email I received today which I think may be of interest to the list. Wayne >From: Elaine Peña >To: >Subject: Int. Conference on Seismic Risk Reduction >Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:23:28 -0500 > >We are from Dominican Republic and we have a International Conference on >Seismic Risk Reduction,in the Caribbean Region. We'll like to announce aour >conference in the Public SeismiccNetwork. > >As a Committee advisers we have Dr. Vitelmo Bertero, Dr. Luis Esteva, Dr. >Jose Restrepo, Dr. Paul Mann. Dr. Omar Cardona, Dr. William McCann, Dr. >Carol Prentice and many others. The conference is going to be held on July >24-27 200, in Santiago - Dominican Republic > >It is a non lucrative event. We count on the support of numerous >institutions. The conference has been promoted mainly to dominicans, but we >like people from all over, especially the caribbean, to come. > > >Please response soon. > >(Excuse my grammar) > >Jomara Lockhart (Staff _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: interpreting seismograms From: "Larry Conklin" lconklin@............ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:26:55 -0400 I would be interested in tracking down a copy of this book. Can you tell me whether it is still in print or available? Larry Conklin lconklin@............ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: interpreting seismograms > Kareem, > > The definitive text is a USGS (then dept of Commerce, later NOAA) > publication "The Principles of Interpreting Seismograms". It is > about 100 pages, and has pockets that contain large travel-time > graphs for events at various depths. I don't have the publication > details here at home. If you need them, I will get them. > > About a year ago someone on the PSN net was providing copies at > cost. > > Regards, > Sean-Thomas > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New email list for KS36000 seismometers From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:41:30 -0700 Greetings -- Since getting the KS36000 seismometers from the USGS last month, there have been several email discussions both on the PSN list and off. Thinking that future discussions may not be of general interest to people on the PSN list, there is a new email list for people involved with the KS36000 seismometers. This list is intended to be used for discussion of testing, installing, repairing, operating, or any thing else having to do with the KS36000 seismometers. It is unmoderated and open to anyone with an interest in these seismometers and their use. To subscribe, send an email to ks36000-request@.......... with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in either the subject line or the body of the message. Posts to the list go to ks36000@........... I hope this list works out for everyone. If anybody has any problems or comments, please email me. Regards, Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New email list for KS36000 seismometers From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:19:59 -0600 Hi Karl, First, let me say thanks for your work on getting the manuals out to us. They arrived today. You should have the check by now - mailed it out Monday AM. I tried to subscribe to: www.ks36000-request@.......... and was not able to connect. Is the site ready? Raul Karl Cunningham wrote: > Greetings -- > > Since getting the KS36000 seismometers from the USGS last month, there have > been several email discussions both on the PSN list and off. Thinking that > future discussions may not be of general interest to people on the PSN > list, there is a new email list for people involved with the KS36000 > seismometers. > > This list is intended to be used for discussion of testing, installing, > repairing, operating, or any thing else having to do with the KS36000 > seismometers. It is unmoderated and open to anyone with an interest in > these seismometers and their use. > > To subscribe, send an email to ks36000-request@.......... with the word > "subscribe" (without the quotes) in either the subject line or the body of > the message. Posts to the list go to ks36000@........... > > I hope this list works out for everyone. If anybody has any problems or > comments, please email me. > > Regards, > Karl Cunningham > karlc@.......... > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Help! From: "dan stevens" dlstevens69@........... Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:08:38


Howdy, I'm having trouble figuring out how/where to upload a WinQuake file to the site.  I got a little one here in British Columbia I want to put up. A point in the right direction would be great! -dan stevens


Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Subject: Re: Help! From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 21:11:35 Click "FILE, OPEN" Select the file you would like to upload. (do not open it) Click "SEND EMAIL MESSAGE" at the bottom of the window. In the new "Send Email Message" window which pops up, fill in the following: Send to: event@.............. Fill in all the other fields with the appropriate information. Click "SEND". Note: up to 4 files can be sent at once. Wayne >From: "dan stevens" >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: PSN-L@.............. >Subject: Help! >Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:08:38 > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: rockland filters ebay From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:52:16 -0400 Hi, There are two adjustable filters on ebay which may be of interest. As best as I can tell, only 1 goes to low enough freqs. for seis work. Search on rockland filter Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Introducing From: Alpiste mjroman@...... Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:14:22 +0200 Dear all: This message is only to try to contact with people that works in multichannel seismic data processing, people that uses software such FOCUS/Disco , Seismic Unix or ProMAX. Or if you know another mailing list about this. I need to contact with some people that uses this software Thanks Manuel ----------------------------------------------------------- Manuel J. Roman-Alpiste Instituto Andaluz de Ciencias de la Tierra CSIC - UGR Facultad de Ciencias Avda. Fuentenueva S/N 18071 Granada (Spain) ------------------------------------------------------------ Telefono: +34 958 242374 Movil: +34 696 821051 Fax: +34 958 243384 e-mail: mjroman@...... -------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Introducing From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:25:16 -0700 Try the Geophysics Discussion List, based in the UK. This group is centered around exploration geophysics, although generally shallow exploration. -------- The Geophysics Discussion List (GDL) -------- Send your posts to geophysics@...................... To unsubscribe,mail remove-geophysics@...................... To subscribe,mail join-geophysics@...................... Administration : geophysics-owner@...................... *** *** *** Applied Geophysical Methods *** *** http://www.geophysics.co.uk/methods.html *** *** *** *** GDL Archive (from June 1999) *** *** http://geophysics.sparklist.com/ *** *** *** *** Copyright Geo-Services International (UK) Ltd *** http://www.geophysics.co.uk/ geoserv@.............. tel: +44(0)1993 706767 fax: +44(0)1993 773040 Alpiste wrote: > > Dear all: > > This message is only to try to contact with people that works in > multichannel seismic data processing, people that uses software such > FOCUS/Disco , Seismic Unix or ProMAX. Or if you know another mailing list > about this. > > I need to contact with some people that uses this software > > Thanks > > Manuel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Surveying? From: Brian Chesire BCchesire@................ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:15:02 -0700 Can anyone recommend a good fundamental book on surveying and map making? Thanks Brian __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinQuake From: The Lahrs johnjan@........ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:46:25 -0600 Hi Larry, Here's a suggestion for WinQuake. It would be nice to have a marker for the beginning of the Love (LQ) and Rayleigh (LR) waves. Based on the "Principles Underlying the Interpretation of Seismograms" travel time chart, you could easily compute their approximate start times from: origin time plus (distance in degrees)/2.43 for LQ and the same formula, but divide by 2.2 for LR. You could plot these phases for distances of 20 degrees and greater. This would certainly work for depths as deep as 50 km. For deeper depths, down to at least 200 km, one can often see surface waves. I'm not sure if the arrival times would need to be delayed for these depths, but you could use the same formulas and people would have to understand that these are the earliest start times, that the arrivals are emergent, that the duration of the waves increases with greater epicentral distance, that the start times are somewhat dependent on how much of the path is oceanic and how much is continental, and that surface waves become weaker and weaker as the depth increases. Clearly surface waves are not helpful for locating an earthquake, but it would be nice to know approximately when they should start arriving. Just a suggestion. Others may have a better approach. Cheers, John John C. Lahr 1925 Foothills Road Golden, CO 80402 Phone: (303) 215-9913 john@........ http://lahr.org/john-jan/science.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Surveying? From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:57:16 -0600 Brian: An excellent introductory text on mapping is the book "Mapping", by David Greenhood. There are many good books on basic plane surveying-- one of my favorites is "Surveying", by Foot and Davis. Mine is a Wartime edition from 1940, but the information is timeless for learning the basics. Regards, Dave Latsch Brian Chesire wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good fundamental book on surveying and map > making? > Thanks > Brian > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Surveying? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:38:25 -0400 A book that I recommend on the subject of surveying is "Surveying" by Merritt. It also goes into maps and other areas that may be of interest to you. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Chesire [mailto:BCchesire@................. Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:15 PM To: PSN Subject: Surveying? Can anyone recommend a good fundamental book on surveying and map making? Thanks Brian __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:28:56 -0500 I have read that a ball bering was used in place of a knife edge in the = construction of the Lehman by some people. I used the knife edge, but have problems with it when trying to adjust, = It seems to want to tilt then the boom does not have =3D swing in my = case east and west. In most of my data one side has just a bit more = amplitude than the other maybe 10% or less. If I use a ball bering would this problem be corrected or is this normal = to see my construction go here :http://www.1goss.com/seis.htm
I have read that a ball bering was used = in place of=20 a knife edge in the construction of the Lehman by some = people.
I used the knife edge, but have = problems with it=20 when trying to adjust, It seems to want to tilt then the boom does not = have =3D=20 swing in my case east and west. In = most of my=20 data one side has just a bit more amplitude than the other maybe 10% or=20 less.
If I use a ball bering would this = problem be=20 corrected or is this normal to see my construction go here :http://www.1goss.com/seis.htm<= /FONT>
 
Subject: Re: Lehman From: The Lahrs johnjan@........ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:14:44 -0600 Hi Bryan,

I highly recommend a wire for the lower hinge.  You can see the
details of how to make one here:

http://lahr.org/john-jan/psn/gldn_psn.html

Cheers,
John

At 12:28 PM 6/12/2001 , you wrote:
I have read that a ball bering was used in place of a knife edge in the construction of the Lehman by some people. .....
or is this normal to see my construction go here :http://www.1goss.com/seis.htm
 

John C. Lahr
1925 Foothills Road
Golden, CO 80402
Phone: (303) 215-9913 
john@........
http://lahr.org/john-jan/science.html Subject: Re: Lehman From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:20:30 -0400 > From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:28:56 -0500 > > I have read that a ball bering was used in place of a knife edge >........http://www.1goss.com/seis.htm I read this also, so when I built my Lehman I used a ball bearing but I had trouble getting a smooth metal surface that it could rest against without making a dent. So I used a vertical piece of glass about the size of a microscope slide. It works very well as a low friction pivot. It would seem that the bearing would gradually work its way off the glass since there is nothing to center it, but this has not happened in months of operation. I suppose you could superglue a big washer to the glass to form a keeper for the bearing if you expect major motions near your unit. For my next Lehman I plan to build a shorter boom (now ~30") so the entire system can sit under an inexpensive 24" glass fish tank. I am tired of looking at the ugly cardboard box I use as an air motion shield now. Your plexiglass enclosure sure looks great, but expensive. I would also like to get rid of my oil damping because it is going to spill and cause a big mess one day. Right now I am working on a way of using a rare earth magnet assembly from a disk drive to do inexpensive and compact magnetic damping. These magnet assemblies are only a couple of $$. Maybe if the magnets are used in the paired assembly they do not have to be separated as far from the pickup coil as a horseshoe magnet does with it is used for magnetic damping. Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:47:05 EDT In a message dated 12/06/01, bgoss@.................. writes: > I have read that a ball bearing was used in place of a knife edge in the > construction of the Lehman by some people. > I used the knife edge, but have problems with it when trying to adjust, > It seems to want to tilt then the boom does not have = swing in my case > east and west. In most of my data one side has just a bit more amplitude > than the other maybe 10% or less. Dear Bryan Goss, There seem to be two satisfactory and practical solutions to the problem of providing a friction and offset free hinge on Lehman and other seismometers. A ball bearing provides rolling contact rather than a knife edge. With a heavy weight it may be advisable to use a 1/4" dia or larger bearing. I used a special bit called a centre drill to drill into the end of the arm. The bit provides a small pilot hole and then a 90 deg cone, which is ideal for locating a ball bearing. You drill to just give the cone, degrease the hole and the bearing, apply epoxy to the cone and fill the centre hole, press the bearing into position and allow the epoxy to harden fully. However, a bearing is only as good as the surface it is sitting on. Using a polished bolt head has been recommended. However, you can provide an excellent surface by breaking a short length off a razor blade and sticking it to a bolt head with epoxy. I suggest that you machine / lap the bolt head flat, heat the bolt, apply the epoxy and clamp the joint firmly to give the minimum thickness glue line. The surface pressures under the ball are quite high. The other method is do away with the bearing surface entirely and use either a fine wire or a narrow strip of metal foil. The essential here is to firmly clamp the wire where it leaves the joints. The wire must NOT enter a short Y section where it is not in contact with the clamp faces. The 8 thou dia. steel wire used on the header on many Lehmans is suitable. Of the two methods, this seems to require a bit more effort to fabricate. I understand that both methods will give stable pendulum periods in excess of 15 seconds, which is probably as much as the normal tilt sensitivity of the seismometer will allow. Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 12/06/01, bgoss@.................. writes:

  ; I have read that a ball bearing was used in place of a knife edge in the
construction of the Lehman by some people.
  I used the knife edge, but have problems with it when trying to adjust,
It seems to want to tilt then the boom does not have = swing in my case
east and west. In most of my data one side has just a bit more amplitude
than the other maybe 10% or less.
Dear Bryan Goss,

     There seem to be two satisfactory and practical solutions to the
problem of providing a friction and offset free hinge on Lehman and other
seismometers.  

     A ball bearing provides rolling contact rather than a knife edge. With
a heavy weight it may be advisable to use a 1/4" dia or larger bearing. I
used a special bit called a centre drill to drill into the end of the arm.
The bit provides a small pilot hole and then a 90 deg cone, which is ideal
for locating a ball bearing. You drill to just give the cone, degrease the
hole and the bearing, apply epoxy to the cone and fill the centre hole, press
the bearing into position and allow the epoxy to harden fully. However, a
bearing is only as good as the surface it is sitting on. Using a polished
bolt head has been recommended. However, you can provide an excellent surface
by breaking a short length off a razor blade and sticking it to a bolt head
with epoxy. I suggest that you machine / lap the bolt head flat, heat the
bolt, apply the epoxy and clamp the joint firmly to give the minimum
thickness glue line. The surface pressures under the ball are quite high.

     The other method is do away with the bearing surface entirely and use
either a fine wire or a narrow strip of metal foil. The essential here is to
firmly clamp the wire  where it leaves the joints. The wire must NOT enter a
short Y section where it is not in contact with the clamp faces. The 8 thou
dia. steel wire used on the header on many Lehmans is suitable. Of the two
methods, this seems to require a bit more effort to fabricate. I understand
that both methods will give stable pendulum periods in excess of 15 seconds,
which is probably as much as the normal tilt sensitivity of the seismometer
will allow.

     Regards,

     Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Lehman From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:53:13 -0500 Thanks for all the info and replies to my question=20 Bryan S Goss...............
Thanks for all the info and replies to = my=20 question
Bryan S=20 Goss...............
Subject: Re: Lehman From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:01:42 EDT In a message dated 6/14/01 12:26:40 AM GMT Daylight Time, DSaum@............ writes: << I read this also, so when I built my Lehman I used a ball bearing but I had trouble getting a smooth metal surface that it could rest against without making a dent. So I used a vertical piece of glass about the size of a microscope slide. It works very well as a low friction pivot. >> A low friction pivot is still a friction pivot!!! A friction-free pivot has been described consisting of a ring going around the lower pivot post with a spring wire under tension in back of the post. The spring stores energy and gives it back to provide a completely friction-free pivot. This is the ideal solution but requires machine-shop work you can't do at home on the kitchen table. I got around this problem by replacing the steel ring with a square wooden frame made from small pieces of poplar wood you can buy at the "Home Depot" home improvement stores or elsewhere. Use flathead wood screws to hold the wooden frame together. I made adjustable clamps for the spring wire from 3/8-inch square steel rod. With a hack saw cut two pieces 1 1/2-inch long and two pieces 1-inch long. Drill the ends of the long pieces to mount them with flathead wood screws on a wooden center pivot post and the square frame. The short pieces are the clamps and are mounted on the long pieces with two 10-32 socket-head cap screws that clamp them down on the spring wire. Loosen them slightly to make adjustments in the length of the spring wire to center and level the Boom on the now friction-free pivot point. The square steel rod, 10-32 socket-head screws and the 10-32 tap and tap drill plus a handle for the tap, are all found at Home Depot or other hardware stores. The music wire for the spring can be a steel guitar string from a music store. Use cutting oil on the tap and be gentle, backing out often to break the chips, so as not to jam the tap and break it. The big advantage of my spring wire clamps is they don't kink the wire as a set screw would do. Kinks would prevent precision adjustment. Have fun, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: BOB BARNS roybar@........ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:38:18 -0400 David, Check out Lahr's message of yesterday--this is a slick variation of the old Zollner suspension. It looks to be easy to build and has got to be frictionless. About boom length:I bought a Geotech SL-220 horizontal from ebay. This has a <8 inch> boom and can be adjusted up to 30 sec. period. This is proof positive that short booms can work fine. You should also look into using a resistor across the coil for damping. This is much simpler than oil pots or magnetic systems. Bob David Saum wrote: > > > From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" > > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:28:56 -0500 > > > > I have read that a ball bering was used in place of a knife edge > >........http://www.1goss.com/seis.htm > > I read this also, so when I built my Lehman I used a ball bearing > but I had trouble getting a smooth metal surface that it could > rest against without making a dent. So I used a vertical piece of __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman pivot From: "angel@chiriqui" angel@............ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:50:45 -0500 Hello, I have also made a wire hinge that works very well. some pics at http://volcanbaru.com/gardengate/ angel Thursday, June 14, 2001, 9:38:18 AM, you wrote: BB> David, BB> Check out Lahr's message of yesterday--this is a slick variation of BB> the old Zollner suspension. It looks to be easy to build and has got to BB> be frictionless. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The Amateur Seismologist web pages? From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:52:01 -0400 Does anyone know what happened to all "The Amateur Seismologist" web pages that were located at www.primenet.com/~seismo/ ? There were some nice mechanical drawings on these pages. I have saved 1001.jpg "as2 base" 1002.jpg "as2 post" 1003.jpg "mass" 1006.jpg "support" 1007.jpg "magnet assembly" and I could put them up on my web site if it ok with the author and there is no plan to relocate the site. I seem to be missing some of the drawings. Does anyone else have them? Ciao, Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman bottom pivot From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:13:21 EDT The bottom pivot on a Lehman seismometer may have to take quite an appreciable load. It is known that a ball bearing which gives rolling contact is quite satisfactory, but it does need a hard smooth surface to press against. It occurs to me that it should be perfectly satisfactory to use two bearing rollers mounted at right angles. They have highly polished hard surfaces. One might be stuck vertically onto the central support. A horizontal hole could be bored at the end of the swinging arm, the outside 1/3 of the hole cut / filed away and the other bearing glued into the 2/3 hole, leaving the curved surface projecting. I would be interested to hear of anyone who has tried this. Regards, Chris Chapman      The bottom pivot on a Lehman seismometer may hav e to take quite an
appreciable load. It is known that a ball bearing which gives rolling contact
is quite satisfactory, but it does need a hard smooth surface to press
against. It occurs to me that it should be perfectly satisfactory to use two
bearing rollers mounted at right angles. They have highly polished hard
surfaces. One might be stuck vertically onto the central support. A
horizontal hole could be bored at the end of the swinging arm, the outside
1/3 of the hole cut / filed away and the other bearing glued into the 2/3
hole, leaving the curved surface projecting.  

      I would be interested to hear of anyone who has tried this.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Lehman bottom pivot From: johnc c cole johnccole1@........ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:35:09 -0500 Chris I believe that it can be proven theoretically, and i have demonstrated empirically ,that an increase of convexity at the pivot point can result in increased sensitivity. This makes sense because there is less surface contact between the static and the mobile elements of the interface . ,resulting in less friction and increased isolation of the pendulum. My instruments and those that i modified using my technology, have shown remarkable improvement over their Lehman counterparts. I am the person who came up with the ball bearing pivot point as a modification to the Lehman detector. The Lehman detector using the ball bearing pivot point on a polished bolt head will usually perform consistently and be stable at about 16 seconds. About a year ago i decided to use the ball bearing for the upper pivot point also. I then decided to use a convex static surface for the upper and lower ball bearings to rest on. I usually run four or five detectors and chart recorders full time. The performance of each can be compared to the others . The quad convex surface method produced outstanding results. The modified Lehman detector using this method can be run at about 35 seconds or more and still be stable. To work properly , the static part of the pivot point must be constructed of a material equally hard as the ball bearing. In my instruments it is made of another bigger ball bearing after it has been cut and polished. This surface should look like a mirror. Will the ball bearing come off of the static convex surface while in use? NEVER. How does the ball bearing method compare to the other methods ? I dare you to try it. BE ready for one hell of a surprise. W5AUH , John C Cole ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:13:15 -0400 > From: CapAAVSO@....... > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:01:42 EDT > > A low friction pivot is still a friction pivot!!! A friction-free pivot has > been described consisting of a ring going around the lower pivot post with a > spring wire under tension in back of the post. The spring stores energy and > gives it back to provide a completely friction-free pivot. It is not clear to me why a "real" spring is more "friction-free" than a ball bearing rolling on a glass plate. Any real spring will generate heat as it bends (from internal friction). Without test data I do not see that either pivot design has inherently lower friction. However, the ball bearing technique seems to be simpler to build since it does not require a machine shop. Ciao, Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:54:36 -0700 Dave -- Here are some of my thoughts... I believe you are correct that there is some friction in bending the spring. "Hysteresis loops" exist for bending all materials but are pretty low in good springs. I don't have a feel for what good quality spring material might exhibit, but I would expect it might be better than 0.1% if conservatively loaded. Another source of hysteresis is in anchoring the spring to the supporting material. The stress in the outer fibers of the spring at the anchor must be less than the strength of the anchor mechanism, or sliding will occur (with associated losses). And even when not stressed past their tensile strength, adhesives tend to have much greater hysteresis losses than metals. One solution is to have a thick cross section in the spring where it is anchored so the stress in the outer fibers is reduced, and have a thinner cross section away from the anchor where bending is desired. This makes the spring a lot more complicated, though. Here's a theory I have about the hysteresis. I have thought that the effect of hysteresis in the Lehman can be modeled as a stiff spring connected to parts with both static and dynamic friction components. (The stiff spring represents the spring constant of the boom.) Whenever outside forces stop acting on the system, an equilibrium is reached with stress on the stiff spring balanced by a component of gravity resulting from any offset in the pendulum from its lowest point. This stiff spring effect results in much shorter natural period and lower sensitivity. Once the static friction component is overcome by stressing the stiff spring enough, the natural period lowers and the dynamic friction component represents the loss of the system. If outside forces are again removed, the system may come to rest with the frictional component at a different point and with a different stress on the stiff spring. The more the stress in the stiff spring when things come to rest, the easier it is for the static friction to be overcome since gravity is helping. The rolling contact also suffers from friction due to the small indentation resulting from pressure at the point of contact. There is hysteresis in deforming the material and also some sliding that occurs between the two surfaces being deformed and then restored as the deformation follows the area of contact. Rolling contacts are also subject to dust and contamination which adds to friction. I suppose even a fingerprint might be significant. My force-balance seismometer (which mechanically is basically a Lehman) uses a carbide pivot point against a hardened steel plate. I saw a significant improvement in sensitivity after putting a drop of oil on the pivot. Regards, Karl --On Friday, June 15, 2001 11:13 AM -0400 David Saum wrote: >> From: CapAAVSO@....... >> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:01:42 EDT >> >> A low friction pivot is still a friction pivot!!! A friction-free pivot > has >> been described consisting of a ring going around the lower pivot post >> with > a >> spring wire under tension in back of the post. The spring stores energy > and >> gives it back to provide a completely friction-free pivot. > > It is not clear to me why a "real" spring is more "friction-free" than a > ball > bearing rolling on a glass plate. Any real spring will generate heat as > it bends > (from internal friction). Without test data I do not see that either > pivot design > has inherently lower friction. However, the ball bearing technique seems > to be simpler to build since it does not require a machine shop. > > Ciao, > > Dave > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:07:26 -0500 Karl... Do you have pics or drawings of your pivot point Thanks ......... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinQuake display phases From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:56:02 -0700 John and others, WinQuake has LR and LQ phase display markers. These phases are part of the JB travel-time tables that comes with WinQuake. You can display them by going to the Phase Control dialog box (View/Phases/Phase Control menu items) and deselecting IASP91 check box. You should see the LR and LQ phases in the Select From or Selected Phases list boxes. If you don't see them you will need to download the complete set of jb tables here ftp://dr1.seismicnet.com/users/psn/software/jbtables.zip. After unzipping the file, copy all of the JB table files to the directory location displayed in the Phase Control dialog box. Once you add the phases to the Selected Phases list box they should show up when you display the phases in the event window. I don't know what the travel times are of the LR and LQ phase in the JB tables. They could be calculated and compared to the formula John provided below. If they don't match a new set of LR and LQ JB tables could be created using the formulas. I don't have time right now too look into this. If someone out there would like to work on this I can help out. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lahrs" To: "Larry Cochrane" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:46 PM Subject: Re: WinQuake > Hi Larry, > > Here's a suggestion for WinQuake. It would be nice to have a marker for > the beginning of the Love (LQ) and Rayleigh (LR) waves. Based on the > "Principles Underlying the Interpretation of Seismograms" travel time > chart, you could easily compute their approximate start times from: > origin time plus (distance in degrees)/2.43 for LQ and the same > formula, but divide by 2.2 for LR. You could plot these phases for > distances of 20 degrees and greater. This would certainly work for depths > as deep as 50 km. For deeper depths, down to at least 200 km, one can > often see surface waves. I'm not sure if the arrival times would need to be > delayed for these depths, but you could use the same formulas and > people would have to understand that these are the earliest start times, > that the arrivals are emergent, that the duration of the waves increases > with greater epicentral distance, that the start times are somewhat > dependent on how much of the path is oceanic and how much is > continental, and that surface waves become weaker and weaker as > the depth increases. Clearly surface waves are not helpful for locating > an earthquake, but it would be nice to know approximately when > they should start arriving. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lehman From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:34:06 -0700 Hi Bryan -- Sorry I don't have a photo or drawings. You can kind of see it in http://www.keckec.com/seismo/images/seismo.gif but it's not very clear. There is a description at http://www.keckec.com/seismo/index.html Scroll down to "Boom Pivot" I'll see if I can get a photo in the next week to two. Karl --On Friday, June 15, 2001 13:07 -0500 Bryan&Regina Goss wrote: > Karl... > > Do you have pics or drawings of your pivot point > Thanks ......... > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: hydrogen gas production From: SW6079@....... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:22:46 EDT While this is not strictly about seismology and I apologize, I thought one of the group might be able to help me out with a problem. Later this summer I will be hiking deep into Glacier Nat. Forest (WA) and I will need to suspend a communications antenna from a balloon. I just don't savor the idea of lugging a 40 cu ft Helium or Hydrogen tank 20 mi. I'd hire a heliocopter if I had the bucks, but I don't. I seem to remember that some compound when simply mixed w/ H20 would produce huge amounts of hydrogen gas. I am aware of other methods, but they're too risky (acid and alkalis, etc.) I have looked everywhere I can think of and come up dry. Anyone have an idea?? Thank You. Mike. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production From: Dave Booth kc6wfs@........... Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:46:02 -0700 Hi Mike. What frequency is the antenna or radio for? I wrist rocket with a spool of fishing line and a led weight would propel it up far enough for a good HF antenna. Or a fishing pole. Just a thought. Dave Booth KC6WFS SW6079@....... wrote: > > While this is not strictly about seismology and I apologize, I thought one of > the group might be able to help me out with a problem. Later this summer I > will be hiking deep into Glacier Nat. Forest (WA) and I will need to suspend > a communications antenna from a balloon. I just don't savor the idea of > lugging a 40 cu ft Helium or Hydrogen tank 20 mi. I'd hire a heliocopter if > I had the bucks, but I don't. I seem to remember that some compound when > simply mixed w/ H20 would produce huge amounts of hydrogen gas. I am aware > of other methods, but they're too risky (acid and alkalis, etc.) I have > looked everywhere I can think of and come up dry. Anyone have an idea?? > Thank You. Mike. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR release, GPS without SA and new A/D card From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:45:24 -0700 SDR Users, I'm pleased to announce the new release of SDR and that SDR is now out of beta! This evening I updated the documentation at http://www.seismicnet.com/sdrdocs/sdr.htm with all of the new features and changes to the software from the last release. This page also has links to download the new version. One of the things I just changed is higher precision to the latitude and longitude numbers the user can enter for their sensor location. I just found out a few days ago that SA, the stuff added to the GPS signal to make the position less accurate, has been turned off over a year ago. I remember hearing talk about it being turning off a few years ago, but I sure don't remember hearing about it actually being turned off... Now that SA has been turned off I did a site survey using one of my timing GPS systems and a program called WinOncore by Motorola. This program will average the data from a Oncore GPS receiver and display the data on the screen. With SA off, and averaging the position data for 2 days, the accuracy should be under 1 meter. So that the user could enter this data I needed to change the SDR so that the user could place more numbers past the decimal point. Before it was limited to 3, now one can enter up to 6. With 6 numbers of precision the user can enter a position accurate down to a few centimeters. After 2 days of averaging the height information displayed by WinOncore seemed a little strange. The number it came up with was -17.29 meters. As far as I know Redwood City is above sea level. After doing some research on the web I found that the height reported by WinOncore was GPS Height in WGS 84 ordinance, not local Mean Sea Level (MSL). To convert from GPS Height to MSL I used a program called GEOID96 (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/GEOID/GEOID96/). After entering my location, it came back with a number of -32.447 meters. I think this means I'm ~15 meters (~49 feet) above local MSL. If I have done anything wrong here please let me know. Also, I'm assuming that the seismology community uses local MSL for sensor height. If this is not correct, please let me know.... This release now supports my new A/D board. As most of you know I had a problem with getting 16 bit A/D chips from Burr-Brown (now owned by TI). Since I wasn't sure I was ever going to get more chips I modified my board for another 16 bit A/D chip made by several manufactures. Right after getting the artwork back to make the new board I got the BB parts... If you install SDR version 4.0 in a new directory and startup the program, you will be asked for the A/D board rev number. At this point everyone has Rev 2 boards. Also new with this release is support for a new field in the PSN Type 4 format. I added a Datalogger ID string in the variable header section of the event file. See http://www.seismicnet.com/psnformat4.html for more information. Currently SDR places "SDR 4.0" in the field. The next release of WinQuake will display this field in the Sensor Information dialog box. If you use the new SDR version, and send in event files, please fill in the new fields offered by the new PSN format. It's really nice to be able to see what type of sensor is used to create the event file. The station operator should enter a short description of the sensor in the "Sensor Information" field for each channel. If you have a GPS receiver, and have not done a site survey within the last year, please re check your sensor's position and enter the more precise numbers in the new version of SDR. The next version of WinQuake will display the higher precision numbers. The current version only displays lat / long down to 3 numbers past the decimal point. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN Regards, Larry Cochrane __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production ( Kites) From: SW6079@....... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:09:42 EDT Kite(s) Would be a great idea if I could absolutely rely on an wind where I was going. The frequency will be the extra-class portion of 75m phone (around 3.75 mhz) There are very few trees from which to suspend anything, unfortunately. As to Frank's idea of MRE heating method.. I like it, plus I get to eat too! Worth investigating, perhaps a mylar-type balloon with very thin wire would do the trick. 73 to all Mike, N7ORL. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production From: "Daryl P. Dacko" mycrump@........ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:19:10 -0400 You're likely thinking about Lithium Hydride or Calcium Hydride. It was used a lot in WWII to inflate balloons for emergency communications in life rafts. I beleve that Fair Radio Sales still sold some of these canisters as of a few years ago, try a web search. However, the residue from these canisters is highly corrosive, and hydrogen is VERY inflammable, and you'd likely need to engineer some type of water bath (a LOT of heat is generated) amd tube to conduct the H2 to the balloon. Are you sure you need to do this ? Ham radio operators have come up with very invovative ways of getting a signal out of the wilderness, with improvised and light weight materials. Give us a few more details, and perhaps we can help further. Daryl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production (Hydrides) From: SW6079@....... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:55:52 EDT That's it!! Lithium Hydride. I just couldn't remember. Thank you. Water should not be a problem as we can easily melt snow. We need a reliable source of communications on this mountain in case of emergency, and there is nothing like ham radio for that purpose. If we had a single 100 ft tree, we'd be ok. but at 9000 ft there just isn't much there. Thanks, and 73. Mike N7ORL. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New SDR release, GPS without SA and new A/D card From: offutt@............ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Larry, et al ... I have been using GPS equipment for nearly 10 years at the Observatory here, and have also had the telescope surveyed by a professional branch of the Gov to obtain precise location coordinates for the astronomical telescope. You are correct, that there are several datum references, and the actual measurement you obtain will be with reference to a specific coordinate reference. It must be converted, as you have described, to other references where that base is desired. After all is said and done, my experience is consistent with the professional specifications: the Latitude and Longitude "readouts" are consistently better than the elevation readouts. I have a GPS monitor running here continuously. Most of the time (but not all the time) the horizontal precision (or at least consistency) is very good, within a few meters without averaging. But the same is not true for elevation, where the readings generally wander over a range of about +/- 100 feet or so, and occasionally, much wider. I think the elevation measurements are probably reliable to several tens of feet (maybe +/- 100 fet) only if the measurements are averaged over a long period. The last time I did this, I ran 4000 measurements averaged over about 3 or 4 days, and was getting consitency down to the ~25 foot level in elevation, maybe a little better. The overall precision is very dependent on the number of satellintes in use and their disposition ... you really want to strive for close to horizon-to-horizon view for your GPS receiver over 360 degrees of bearing. But, with patience and lots of averaging, lesser view fields can also be used. However, even when everything is being down carefully, the nature of the beast is that elevation precision will be poorer that horizontal precision. To gain some subjective feel for your situation, run your averaging over, say, an hour for each of several days spread over, say, 2 weeks, and then compare the results ... Best regards to all warren W & B Observatory (astronomical) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fair Radio Sales Company Inc (http://www.fairradio.com/) From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:21:57 -0700 Here's the URL for Fair Radio Sales. In their current catalog on page 11, are the canisters of calcium hydride used to generate H2 for balloons. The description says they're used to inflate 4 foot balloons for the Gibson Girl rescue radio. They don't say whether just 1 canister will do the job, but it does mention that the canisters are dented, suitable only for recovery of the calcium hydride contained within. Unused, 2 for $15. plus $3. for an "inflation tube" plus S&H. Looks like it'd be worth trying before you go on your trip. http://www.fairradio.com/ Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Fair Radio Sales Company Inc (http://www.fairradio.com/) From: "Steve Hansen" shansen@........ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:00:32 -0400 I've used the canisters from Fair Radio a couple of times. Even though dented, I was able to make them work. Make sure you get an inflation tube as the fitting on the canister is non-standard. With one canister I could fill a 4 ft. balloon. The canisters do get hot and the residual calcium hydroxide scatters in the water. Not exactly something you'd want to do in a nice pond. I would recommend making a simple metal reservoir with a couple gallons of water that you can dump the hydride into. The reservoir could be immersed in pond water to keep the temperature low(er) but would contain the chemicals for disposal later. I did this with an old barbeque grill size propane cylinder. Steve Hansen ----- Original Message ----- From: Erich Kern To: Mike Cc: PSN-L Mailing List Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 12:21 PM Subject: Fair Radio Sales Company Inc (http://www.fairradio.com/) > Here's the URL for Fair Radio Sales. In their current catalog on page 11, are the > canisters of calcium hydride used to generate H2 for balloons. The description says > they're used to inflate 4 foot balloons for the Gibson Girl rescue radio. They don't > say whether just 1 canister will do the job, but it does mention that the canisters > are dented, suitable only for recovery of the calcium hydride contained within. > Unused, 2 for $15. plus $3. for an "inflation tube" plus S&H. Looks like it'd be worth > trying before you go on your trip. > > http://www.fairradio.com/ > > Regards, > Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production (Hydrides) From: Thomas W Leiper twleiper@........ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:02:18 -0400 Seems like a lot of trouble to try to keep a balloon in the air at 9K ft. With the winds it will probably be horizontal most of the time anyway. Why not set up a Beverage antenna? Though they are primarily for receiving, they will work OK in low power transmitting environments as well, and thay are directional. Then all you need is a bunch of 8' bamboo poles or the like, a wavelength or more of wire and a terminating resistor. And, once it's up...it stays up. Tom On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:55:52 EDT SW6079@....... writes: > That's it!! Lithium Hydride. I just couldn't remember. Thank you. > Water > should not be a problem as we can easily melt snow. We need a > reliable > source of communications on this mountain in case of emergency, and > there is > nothing like ham radio for that purpose. If we had a single 100 ft > tree, > we'd be ok. but at 9000 ft there just isn't much there. Thanks, > and 73. > Mike N7ORL. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New SDR release, GPS without SA and new A/D card From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:18:04 -0700 A few thoughts on the GPS accuracy -- The following URL http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_radius.prl has a search engine to find survey monuments within a specified radius of a particular lat & long. I found one near me that had been surveyed to within fractions of an inch and took my GPS there. It was consistently about 15 feet off in the same direction. How about the following poor-man's DGPS. 1. Lock the satellites in use by the GPS so they don't change. 2. Make an offset measurement at such a benchmark. 3. Travel to another close-by location. 4. Could the offset be applied to improve location accuracy? I suppose the real test of this is to get an offset from one surveyed benchmark and then testing the offset at another surveyed benchmark. I realize there are errors due to reflections in GPS signals off buildings, mountains, etc., but I would bet some improvement could be made over the uncorrected position. Karl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH PORTACORDER RV302B From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:30:22 EDT __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH PORTACORDER RV320B From: RADIOTEL@....... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:42:21 EDT Sorry for the empty message previously sent (I hit the wrong key) I just acquired a Teledyne-Geotech Portacorder (RV320B) drum recorcer from a friend. Howver, I don't have a manual or connection instructions that shows how to hook it up. The unit apparently operates on some type of battery but the battery is missing. There is one long white wire and one long black wire with spade type connectors in the base of the unit which I assume should be connected to a battery. Anyone having information on connecting this unit such as what type and voltage battery is used, should the above referenced wires be connected to the (-) terminal and (+) terminal of the battery respectively or any other information would be appreciated. In addition, if anyone could provide a photocopy of a manual I would be glad to pay for it. Jim Allen Sorry for the empty message previously sent (I hit the wrong key)
I just acquired a Teledyne-Geotech Portacorder (RV320B) drum recorcer from a
friend.  Howver, I don't have a manual or connection instructions that shows
how to hook it up.  The unit apparently operates on some type of battery but
the battery is missing.  There is one long white wire and one long black wire
with spade type connectors in the base of the unit which I assume should be
connected to a battery.  Anyone having information on connecting this unit
such as what type and voltage battery is used, should the above referenced
wires be connected to the (-) terminal and (+) terminal of the battery
respectively or any other information would be appreciated.  In addition, if
anyone could provide a photocopy of a manual I would be glad to pay for it.
Jim Allen Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production From: Brian Chesire BCchesire@................ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:08:02 -0700 I believe it was the Gibson Girl rescue radio and it had a canister of "Calcium Hydride". Someone mentioned lithum hydride. If I remember correctly, lithium hydride is almost explosive with water and calcium hydride while getting really hot was controllable. I filled a couple ballons from the canisters when I was in sea survival school many many years ago, and they really do get hot!!; even sitting in the ocean. The result is a mess of calcium hydroxide, probably not too good to leave around. 73's Brian WA5PPO Tucson, AZ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production From: Jim Hannon jmhannon@........ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:34:53 -0500 The resultant calcium hydroxide although quite caustic is not much of an environmental threat. It quickly absorbes CO2 from the atmosphere and becomes calcium carbonate. Most lakes could use a dose of calcium carbonate due to the acid rain. :) At 11:08 a.m. 16/06/01 -0700, you wrote: >I believe it was the Gibson Girl rescue radio and it had a canister of >"Calcium Hydride". Someone mentioned lithum hydride. If I remember >correctly, lithium hydride is almost explosive with water and calcium >hydride while getting really hot was controllable. I filled a couple >ballons from the canisters when I was in sea survival school many many >years ago, and they really do get hot!!; even sitting in the ocean. The >result is a mess of calcium hydroxide, probably not too good to leave >around. >73's Brian >WA5PPO Tucson, AZ >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Jim Hannon http://soli.inav.net/~jmhannon/ 42,11.90N,91,39.26W WB0TXL __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Mariana Islands Quake a M5.9 From: Nick & Sophie Caporossi nickcap@............. Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:01:47 -0400 Hi: Has Anyone detected the Mariana Islands Quake? at: >A magnitude 5.9 earthquake in the MARIANA ISLANDS has occurred at: >18.90N 146.98E Depth 33km Fri Jun 15 06:17:45 2001 UTC I can't seem to get the data from any of the "NETWORK EVENT REPORT LISTINGS" Nick __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Mariana Islands Quake a M5.9 From: johnc c cole johnccole1@........ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:22:25 -0500 NIck, Yes, i did. I thought that i was the only one who got it . Now i know where it came from. Frank Cooper and i got several more like that this week without a name and address, My data computer is down and i can not send you a copy or post . If you would care to have a copy of the chart recording , i could mail you one. John C Cole W5AUH ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: GPS Garmin 45 From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:05:39 -0500 I have a Garmin GPS 45 with a serial interface cable It puts out data once every sec and I think it has a time stamp as well, Have you ever looked at the output of a Garmin unit Is their some way I could use it ????¿¿¿¿ The output in Hex I have no clue what it is but I thought you might could tell me something from this ........... CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A100000091003103340D0D5084300 00F0410000F0410000344203005D73E17EF96EB0403AE3A7EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00 000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A100000481003101A600D400000ED260400184E00 003D2D04001C3D00006D25040014290000AD1A04001D2300004D1704000A160000CD0F040013 0E0000210B0400040D0000890A0400150A0000C90804001103000068040200FFFF0000000002 00FFFF000000000200401003103340D0D508430000F0410000F041000034420300C319967DF9 6FB0403AE3A7EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A 100000871003103340D0D508430000F0410000F04100003442030029C04A7CF970B0403AE3A7 EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Garmin 45 GPS From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" bgoss@.................. Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 03:51:12 -0500 Can I use the Garmin output with the current SDR program for timing? If = not, how hard would it be for Larry Cochran to add a patch to work with it? = Or... Any other suggestions for using the GPS to set and keep the time on the = PC updated.
Can I use the=20 Garmin output with the current SDR program for timing? If not,
how = hard would=20 it be for Larry Cochran to add a patch to work with it? Or...
Any = other=20 suggestions for using the GPS to set and keep the time on the=20 PC
updated.


Subject: Re: GPS Garmin 45 From: "angel@chiriqui" angel@............ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 06:17:06 -0500 Hello Bryan&Regina, Saturday, June 16, 2001, 8:05:39 PM, you wrote: BRG> I have a Garmin GPS 45 with a serial interface cable It puts out data once BRG> every sec and I think it has a time stamp as well, Have you ever looked at BRG> the output of a Garmin unit Is their some way I could use it ????¿¿¿¿ BRG> The output in Hex I have no clue what it is but I thought you might could BRG> tell me something from this ........... BRG> CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A100000091003103340D0D5084300 BRG> 00F0410000F0410000344203005D73E17EF96EB0403AE3A7EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00 BRG> 000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A100000481003101A600D400000ED260400184E00 BRG> 003D2D04001C3D00006D25040014290000AD1A04001D2300004D1704000A160000CD0F040013 BRG> 0E0000210B0400040D0000890A0400150A0000C90804001103000068040200FFFF0000000002 BRG> 00FFFF000000000200401003103340D0D508430000F0410000F041000034420300C319967DF9 BRG> 6FB0403AE3A7EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A BRG> 100000871003103340D0D508430000F0410000F04100003442030029C04A7CF970B0403AE3A7 BRG> EA5583E33FE719F0CE91B2F8BF00000000000000000000000024C6F2410D005A BRG> __________________________________________________________ BRG> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) BRG> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with BRG> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe BRG> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, angel mailto:angel@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: GPS Garmin 45 From: wizard@......... (Michael Duck) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 04:31:02 -0700 Check http://www.dransom.com/ a program called GPSSYNC might be useful. Michael Duck Telemetry Networking Systems Tuolumne Utility District Sonora, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan&Regina Goss" To: Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 18:05 Subject: GPS Garmin 45 > I have a Garmin GPS 45 with a serial interface cable It puts out data once > every sec and I think it has a time stamp as well, Have you ever looked at > the output of a Garmin unit Is their some way I could use it ????¿¿¿¿ > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Garmin 45 GPS From: "angel@chiriqui" angel@............ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 06:31:36 -0500 Hello Bryan&Regina, I interfaced a Garmin to a computer that was running a seismograph. It's not hard. Garmin puts out a standard NEMA sequence and you can read it and set the computer clock. The problem is that it is just nowhere close to accurate enough if. I actually think that the 45 puts out the time every two seconds and even if it was every second it would not be good enough to know that you clock is within two seconds of the real time. If you have a permanent connection to the internet, DSL or cable for example you can get quite accurate time by using a time server like Dimension 4 for example. These programs go check the time at very precise time stations and then reset your computers clock. Then you I think you can set the SDR clock through the serial port. ángel Sunday, June 17, 2001, 3:51:12 AM, you wrote: BRG> Can I use the Garmin output with the current SDR program for timing? If not, BRG> how hard would it be for Larry Cochran to add a patch to work with it? Or... BRG> Any other suggestions for using the GPS to set and keep the time on the PC BRG> updated. -- Best regards, angel mailto:angel@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production (beverage ant.) From: SW6079@....... Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:07:02 EDT On the bev antenna.. Not a bad idea, but we'll be hiking in about about 20mi and we will likely be very tired.. Also packing anything extra (poles) in follows the general hikers rule that any piece of equipment gains one pound for every mile travelled! We have the real estate for it though. I may take along enough wire just in case. 73, Mike N7ORL __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production (beverage ant.) From: Bob Smith bobsmith5@........ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:18:12 -0400 Mike -- I think you should reconsider your operating plan. In the current sunspot cycle, operating conditions are pretty good on the higher bands. I used to take makeshift dipoles to the Northern Minnesota fishing camps. Fed them with RG-58. I had lots of great contacts in the early 70's on 15M. 20m should be real hot these days. If I were in your spot I would investigate 2m handhelds. From the Galcier Peak area at 9000 feet, you should have several good shots into the Seattle area. If worse cames to worse for emergency work you could always walk around the mountain. Check with the local amateur clubs for repeater availability. Bob Smith, wa4ypv/aar3hq SW6079@....... wrote: > > On the bev antenna.. Not a bad idea, but we'll be hiking in about about 20mi > and we will likely be very tired.. Also packing anything extra (poles) in > follows the general hikers rule that any piece of equipment gains one pound > for every mile travelled! We have the real estate for it though. I may take > along enough wire just in case. 73, Mike N7ORL > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- --------- Avoid computer viruses -- Practice safe hex ------------- * * Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems * * Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. internet bobsmith5@.............. Lumlay Road landline 804/745-1065 Richmond, Virginia 23236+1004 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New WinQuake beta release From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:44:22 -0700 All, I have a new WinQuake beta release ready for download. Links to the wq278beta.zip file can be found on this page http://www.seismicnet.com/software.html. Here's what's new in this release: The Open File Dialog box now has a Convert button. This can be used to convert from the PSN Type 2 or 3 format to the new PSN Type 4 format. When WinQuake converts, or displays, a type 2 or 3 event file it uses a file called SENSOR.DAT to fill in the extra fields available in the new format. This file must be located in the same directory as winqk32.exe. The file is a standard text file so you can edit it with any text editor. WQ searches the file for a matching even file extension name and then processes a set of keywords to fill in the extra info. I have include a sensor.dat file in the beta release zip file. This should be used as an example when setting up the file with your sensor information. The convert feature in WQ can also be executed from the command line (Windows DOS Box). Here's the info on the command line format: winqk32.exe /c InFileOrDir OutFileOrDir /c = convert files InFileOrDir or OutFileOrDir can be a single file or a directory. If OutFileOrDir is omitted the InFileOrDir files will be replaced. If OutFileOrDir is used the input files are not deleted or overwritten. OutFileOrDir has one special keyword (date). If used the (date) keyword will be changed to the yymm format based on the start time of the event file. WQ will create the directory if needed. Currently the (date) keyword only works on the OutFileOrDir parameter. Example: winqk.exe /c c:\inputfiles d:\events\(date) The will convert all the PSN Type 2/3 files in c:\inputfiles to the new format and place them in the d:\event\yymm\ directory. WQ will display the Datalogger version number in the Sensor Information dialog box. You need to run the new SDR 4.x program for this information to show up in the dialog box. I added this so I don't have to keep asking people what version of SDR they are running. The Latitude and Longitude fields in all dialog boxes that have them can now display, and the user can enter, higher precision numbers. I fixed a problem with the g display numbers when display an event file from an accelerometer. I think that's it. I would make a real, non beta, release if I had the documentation up to date. A lot has changed from the last release and I need a full week of doing nothing but documentation to make the changes..... As always, please let me know if you run into any bugs. Also, if you see any dialog boxes that have labels cutoff, misplaced or spelled wrong please let me know in a private email message. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Benchmark-GPS difference & GPS surveying From: "Brooks Shera" ebs@........ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:25:34 -0600 The consistent error (difference) Karl reports might be due to the difference in datum used in the gps receiver and the datum of the benchmark. For example, there is a difference in my area of about 20 meters between the North American Datum of 1927 (NAD27) and the later datum NAD83. GPS rcvrs can usually be set to output coordinates in a wide selection of datums. I have found very good agreement in my measurements comparing GPS and several benchmarks in the area. The difference among benchmarks is typically less than 1 cm using "homebrew" differential gps and inexpensive single frequency gps receivers. If you are interested in GPS surveying (or freq standards & timing) you might like my GPS webpage at www.rt66.com/~shera. Brooks >Subject: Re: New SDR release, GPS without SA and new A/D card >From: Karl Cunningham >Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:18:04 -0700 >A few thoughts on the GPS accuracy -- >The following URL >http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_radius.prl >has a search engine to find survey monuments within a specified radius of a >particular lat & long. I found one near me that had been surveyed to >within fractions of an inch and took my GPS there. It was consistently >about 15 feet off in the same direction. >How about the following poor-man's DGPS. >1. Lock the satellites in use by the GPS so they don't change. >2. Make an offset measurement at such a benchmark. >3. Travel to another close-by location. >4. Could the offset be applied to improve location accuracy? >I suppose the real test of this is to get an offset from one surveyed >benchmark and then testing the offset at another surveyed benchmark. I >realize there are errors due to reflections in GPS signals off buildings, >mountains, etc., but I would bet some improvement could be made over the >uncorrected position. >Karl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: great book From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:50:36 -1000 Hi, I'm just finishing a book called "No Apparent Danger". It's about the 2 eruption disasters in Colombia in the 80's and 90's. There's graphic detail of both eruptions. In the second one an entire volcanologist conference was on the volcano when it erupted with tragic consequences. There is also a description of the history of seismology in Colombia, the USGS attempts to help and descriptions of seismic signatures of volcanoes.... Great read, here's a link to the book on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060199202/ianlizspag-20 Ian Smith __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: hydrogen gas production From: "David A. Latsch" blottobear@.......... Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:26:03 -0600 Mike: 1. Contact a local ham club in the area about the availability of VHF/UHF repeaters in the park area. At that eleation, it is likely there is one within range. Line of sight can easily be over 100 miles. 2. Cellphone-maybe Local carriers have coverage maps available. If there is an Interstate route near this may work even some distance from the cell site. 3. HF propagation quality is greatly dependent on time of day. If this is for emergency comms, you will have no HF skip available when you need it. (Murphy's Law) 4. Call the National Park Service about this and see if it even legal to generate hydrogen gas. You could have a serious liability here if it explodes and starts a fire, not to mention having the end of a longwire antenna near the balloon. Is there a high E-field at the end? If so, you have a potentially hazardous situation. What sort of transmit power level does your HF radio have? Regards, Dave N9MCE SW6079@....... wrote: > While this is not strictly about seismology and I apologize, I thought one of > the group might be able to help me out with a problem. Later this summer I > will be hiking deep into Glacier Nat. Forest (WA) and I will need to suspend > a communications antenna from a balloon. I just don't savor the idea of > lugging a 40 cu ft Helium or Hydrogen tank 20 mi. I'd hire a heliocopter if > I had the bucks, but I don't. I seem to remember